Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: ionwind

originally posted by: LDragonFire
You all think this will spark WW3?

Unlikely. When KAL 007 (a 747) was shot down by the Soviets in 1983, at the height of the cold war, there was no military retaliation. Although it did prompt President Reagan to deliver his "Evil Empire" speech.

I could see the more economic sanctions against Russia though.

This makes me sick, I feel like we're just pawns in some stupid geopolitical game.

We are pawns, but I fail to understand why we are trying to blame Russia for this. I heard it spouted many times throughout the day on the US media...but that seems to be dangerous speculation on their/our part.

And what would sanctions do? Correct me if I am wrong, but many other nations rely on Russia to provide for their various needs. Russia does not rely on others.

Sanctions? Evidently the threat of more of them do plenty.
Monday the BRICS deal was sealed to start trading without
petrobucks, and from a central bank based in Brazil.
Tuesday the Zionists run a hissy fit and "we're gonna do
something nasty" comes out in somewhat veiled terms.
Wednesday -- well you can see the progression.
I think they think we can't process the shell game they're
playing with all our lives. And it soon could turn into just that.

a reply to: Xcathdra

All due respect, but I did not ask for a link to your personal conjecture on the matter. You said that they were "facts". Facts can be confirmed by legitimate sources.

I kindly request access to those sources that you used to form an opinion.

Do you have them or not?

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: rustyclutch

I have not seen anything talking about 2 military aircraft in the area. what I have seen is 2 military aircraft have been shot down in the air in the preceding week.

yes, there has been talk that this plane was being escorted by two Ukrainian jets to the border. It's only rumor, but it has been reported. Look at earlier posts in this thread to find that information.

Something radar would have shown.

Not if the radar was not functional in the area as it has been stated from other sources. Like I said, we don't know all the facts, but you appear to have access to "facts" that I do not....allowing you to already form an opinion. I'd like to see those sources, please.

@ a seperate question - The missile system in question requires a radar unit for targeting. That radar would be with the missile unit to target the aircraft.

Secondly, you are once again confusing local radar for long distance flight control radar.

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: Xcathdra

All due respect, but I did not ask for a link to your personal conjecture on the matter. You said that they were "facts". Facts can be confirmed by legitimate sources.

I kindly request access to those sources that you used to form an opinion.

Do you have them or not?

Stop being lazy and read the posts on page 54. I am not going to post whats already been posted by others.

Stop being lazy and read.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: rustyclutch

I have not seen anything talking about 2 military aircraft in the area. what I have seen is 2 military aircraft have been shot down in the air in the preceding week.

yes, there has been talk that this plane was being escorted by two Ukrainian jets to the border. It's only rumor, but it has been reported. Look at earlier posts in this thread to find that information.

Something radar would have shown.

Not if the radar was not functional in the area as it has been stated from other sources. Like I said, we don't know all the facts, but you appear to have access to "facts" that I do not....allowing you to already form an opinion. I'd like to see those sources, please.

The missile system in question requires a radar unit for targeting. That radar would be with the missile unit to target the aircraft.

Secondly, you are once again confusing local radar for long distance flight control radar.

Since I am not an expert in the field, I will concede that you are probably right in that area. I was only talking about the "rumors" floating around.

But you have solid facts to share with us and I am eager to dig through those sources to better educate myself. So please do.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: Xcathdra

All due respect, but I did not ask for a link to your personal conjecture on the matter. You said that they were "facts". Facts can be confirmed by legitimate sources.

I kindly request access to those sources that you used to form an opinion.

Do you have them or not?

Stop being lazy and read the posts on page 54. I am not going to post whats already been posted by others.

Stop being lazy and read.

Ya, I read through the posts. No "facts" to be found.

Still waiting, because I would hate to form an uneducated opinion and be wrong again....like the radar topic.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

Page 54, post near the bottom where they linked to the phone calls between the pro Russians and Russians discussing the plane being shot down.

How can you not see the posts?

Hell you dont even have to read anything.. Just hit the play button.

a reply to: Xcathdra

A YT video made with guys looking like terrorists? That is what you base you entire opinion on?

The calls may very well be real, but just from that you have based your entire opinion on this matter?

I'd like a real source please.

originally posted by: Lady_Tuatha
very tragic event, my heart goes out to the families of all those lost.



Strange fact on the plane - The Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 known as MH17 had its maiden flight on 17/07/97 and was shot down 17/07/14, exactly 17 years later.

Interesting.
Also happens to be on the exact anniversary of another plane that got shot down---- TWA 800

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: Xcathdra

A YT video made with guys looking like terrorists? That is what you base you entire opinion on?

The calls may very well be real, but just from that you have based your entire opinion on this matter?

I'd like a real source please.

If the idiotic calls released by Russia are taken as fact, then so are these calls.

Condolences to the family and friends of the loved ones on board the flight.

While I will wait for more details to surface before drawing any conclusions, intuition tells me that this was no accident.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: Xcathdra

A YT video made with guys looking like terrorists? That is what you base you entire opinion on?

The calls may very well be real, but just from that you have based your entire opinion on this matter?

I'd like a real source please.

If the idiotic calls released by Russia are taken as fact, then so are these calls.

I am not basing my opinion from "facts" originated from either set of phone conversations. I am skeptical of all of it until facts are presented. You have those facts and I'd like to educate myself.

Please provide them.

Better yet, let's cut the BS and be honest here. You are talking out of your ass and are basing your opinion not on facts, but your own personal or political bias'. If you are biased...just say so. So am I depending on the situation. But to claim something is fact, when it is not, is intellectually dishonest and insulting to the intelligence of the members of ATS.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: Xcathdra

A YT video made with guys looking like terrorists? That is what you base you entire opinion on?

The calls may very well be real, but just from that you have based your entire opinion on this matter?

I'd like a real source please.

If the idiotic calls released by Russia are taken as fact, then so are these calls.

The calls from Russia have 0 to do with this plane crash. Just saying....that's a poor defense. I have noticed you come across like you are all facts but a lot of what you use as fact isn't fact at all. You should read up on that video you think is evidence. It's actually been called into question.

a reply to: sheepslayer247
a reply to: rustyclutch

Not at all.. Whats occurring is you are doing your darnedest to dismiss the phone calls. In order to do that you want facts, yet refuse to accept the facts via the recorded phone calls.

nice try though...

I saw the same argument in the threads dealing with the phone calls Russia released and how people took them as fact simply because they came from Russia.

The Pro Russians were stupid enough to shoot down a civilian jetliner. That tells me they are stupid enough to use cell phones to talk about. Of course thats no more incriminating than the rebels making the tweet about shooting it down, and then deleting it.


Secondly, attack / refute the facts, not the poster.

when you do that you undermine your own arguments.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: rustyclutch

I have not seen anything talking about 2 military aircraft in the area. what I have seen is 2 military aircraft have been shot down in the air in the preceding week.

yes, there has been talk that this plane was being escorted by two Ukrainian jets to the border. It's only rumor, but it has been reported. Look at earlier posts in this thread to find that information.

Something radar would have shown.

Not if the radar was not functional in the area as it has been stated from other sources. Like I said, we don't know all the facts, but you appear to have access to "facts" that I do not....allowing you to already form an opinion. I'd like to see those sources, please.

@ a seperate question - The missile system in question requires a radar unit for targeting. That radar would be with the missile unit to target the aircraft.

Secondly, you are once again confusing local radar for long distance flight control radar.

Is the BUK listed midway on the page the missile system in question?

en.academic.ru...

originally posted by: Cablespider

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: rustyclutch

I have not seen anything talking about 2 military aircraft in the area. what I have seen is 2 military aircraft have been shot down in the air in the preceding week.

yes, there has been talk that this plane was being escorted by two Ukrainian jets to the border. It's only rumor, but it has been reported. Look at earlier posts in this thread to find that information.

Something radar would have shown.

Not if the radar was not functional in the area as it has been stated from other sources. Like I said, we don't know all the facts, but you appear to have access to "facts" that I do not....allowing you to already form an opinion. I'd like to see those sources, please.

@ a seperate question - The missile system in question requires a radar unit for targeting. That radar would be with the missile unit to target the aircraft.

Secondly, you are once again confusing local radar for long distance flight control radar.

Is the BUK listed midway on the page the missile system in question?

en.academic.ru...

From all reports Ive seen yes. While the rebels tried to claim they don't have them, then forgot they took a picture of the ones they captured from a Ukraine supply base and posted it on twitter.

The Pro Russian rebels claim they control the area in question... Ukraine government forces have not been able to get to the crash site. I doubt Ukraine government forces snuck a sam into rebel controlled territory.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I am not dismissing them and the pro-russian forces could very well be at fault here. If they are, we have to address that.

What I am looking for is facts, that you said were available in a previous post, and I have not found those facts. We don't know if this is propaganda, just like the Russian calls, or not.

Can we at least be consistent?

Shouldn't there be smoke trails streaming from a plane that was shot down at 30k feet?

Why in this video supposedly showing the moment of explosion do we not see any smoke trails in the sky leading downwards toward the point of impact? Remember TWA 800?

based on the captured transcript from the 'spanish' air traffic controller, it seem the ukrainian intentionally redirect the malaysian airline flight path and then vector Sukhoi SU 27 to force it down by violence.

immediatly the western mass media , without any shred of fact/evidence , point fingers to russia and rebels. Even the far away australian PM said in press conference he blamed the russians. Im really ashamed why australian goverment choose to submit itself under USA orders and spout embarrasing statements.. Australian shoulb be ashamed for their elected goverment behaviour..

everything indicates a joint false flag indication between CIA and Kiev goverment. People who follow the events in ukraine noticed this is not coincidence.

Right now you can expect the internet to be flooded with the same meme blaming putin and demonising putin and russia again. just like before where every NSA/CIA paid shills putting "putin = hitler meme" all across the internet and repeated by the mass media too

so, if you see anyone VEHEMENTLY blaming russia and rebels and Always supporting US goverment line, then you can be sure he is a paid shill or Useful Idiots deluded by the US propaganda

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: Xcathdra

I am not dismissing them and the pro-russian forces could very well be at fault here. If they are, we have to address that.

What I am looking for is facts, that you said were available in a previous post, and I have not found those facts. We don't know if this is propaganda, just like the Russian calls, or not.

Can we at least be consistent?

You demanded facts when I brought up the phone conversation. You dismissed them until you had a source. Those sources were posted. You rejected the sources.

I cant give you something you have already dismissed now can I?

So how about you stop with the bs games?