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The importance of Spiritual Discernment when reading the Bible.

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posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 03:08 AM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

The entire chapter of John 3 makes it clear that salvation comes by believing ONLY. Belief leads to rebirth into righteousness.
"You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.
It doesn't say that belief makes it happen.
It happens in a way that we don't understand, it is from the spirit.
"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.
This isn't a lecture on how to get eternal life, it is about how Jesus needs to be lifted up.
It may just be that there is something more involved in what Jesus means by "believing" that an intellectual acknowledgment that Jesus exists or appeared on earth for our salvation, because that would be a given in this analogy, that people already know that.




posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 10:05 AM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

The entire chapter of John 3 makes it clear that salvation comes by believing ONLY. Belief leads to rebirth into righteousness.
"You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.
It doesn't say that belief makes it happen.
It happens in a way that we don't understand, it is from the spirit.
"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.
This isn't a lecture on how to get eternal life, it is about how Jesus needs to be lifted up.
It may just be that there is something more involved in what Jesus means by "believing" that an intellectual acknowledgment that Jesus exists or appeared on earth for our salvation, because that would be a given in this analogy, that people already know that.


Does believing come from knowing or seeing? We are to walk by faith and not by sight, the just shall live by faith. Blessed is she who has seen and believed but more blessed is she who has not seen and still yet believed. So believing and knowing aren't mutually the same agreement.

While I might know other planets exist because some other planets exist, I don't have to believe life exists on them simply because life exists here. I know life exists here and believe it. But out there, I can either believe it or not. Do I have to know life exists elsewhere because somewhere it does?

The same with Jesus, I haven't seen Jesus but do I believe in Jesus? I know Jesus, but that knowing isn't based on seeing Jesus. It isn't even based on the multiple resources about His existence, including the Bible. I accept and believe, not just because the Bible says so. But I haven't seen Jesus. I have faith, but that faith is in knowing, not seeing

While there were those who had seen Jesus and some believed in Him as the messiah, some had faith in what they were seeing, some had faith in their knowing, but the belief that He is the messiah doesn't even come from seeing or knowing Him, because many people saw and knew Him and still did not believe He was the messiah.

How do you lift Jesus up as messiah today outside of first century documents or the Bible? Why show people the Bible if they have rejected it? It doesn't matter how much Bible you present to them, if they choose not to see it or believe it, we can't keep throwing it in their face. So what are we left with? Lifting Jesus up must then come from the personal knowledge and relationship of the unseen. Faith is what lifts Jesus up.

As you disagree with the assessment, Skobic did indeed lift Jesus up, even as a pariah, but it still elevates Jesus above every other doctrinal stance, because in His existence, He can no longer be disputed by the very people who are interested in finding out of He is the messiah. As Skobic talks about the New Testament in what seems to be a condescending manner, he has faith in the historicity of the man. He has faith in the doctrines of Paul, even if he doesn't believe it, in other words, he knows the doctrine of Paul. He might dispute it, but he knows it.

That's how he lifts Jesus up, He knows Jesus was a real person, he just doesn't believe He was the messiah. And because he knows, places Jesus above every other historical figure that has claimed messiahship. He has faith in his Sanhedrin documents, the Sanhedrin knew Jesus. If the Sanhedrin also knew Jesus, then this man knows Jesus, albeit from the same way we know Jesus from the Bible. So Jesus has been lifted up by this man, maybe he lifts Jesus up to dispute His messiahship, but he clearly has faith that the real man Jesus did exist.



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


John 3 is about elevating Jesus from the status of human rabbi to Messiah. This elevation must occur in your mental attitude toward Him as your saviour...in faith. Believe that He came to become sin for us so that we may have Eternal Life. That is salvation.

Its not complicated. In fact, it's often too simple for most to see.

Believe on the Lord Messiah Jesus and you will have Eternal Life. God WILL NOT bargain with your works for Eternal Life.



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

So believing and knowing aren't mutually the same agreement.
We are dealing with analogies here, Jesus talks about being born again, then he talks about the wind, and then he talks about Moses holding up the brazen snake.
His being raised up goes beyond just being seen, but to be understood, that he came, and why he came. People understand that.
And the "believing" part goes beyond just knowing about it and realizing the potential implications of it.

As Skobic talks about the New Testament in what seems to be a condescending manner, he has faith in the historicity of the man.
He is presenting an antichrist, not Jesus, even if the person happens to have the same name, it was pretty popular back then, and still is today but for different reasons.
He only repeats parts of pseudo-Paul, like the Timothy "letters", and ignores real Pauline writings like 1 Corinthians.

That's how he lifts Jesus up . . .
He presents an alternative to Jesus, as a straw man, something else that can be lifted up, to discredit the real person.
edit on 16-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

Believe that He came to become sin for us so that we may have Eternal Life.
Of course I believe that, because the Bible says so.
What I don't believe is that his death as literally a form of exchange that somehow exonerates us of "sin debt".
And I don't think that he was punished to take our punishment for us so we can ourselves escape punishment.
He did receive punishment as part of his becoming sin, where it is another outward sign of his guilt in the eyes of those given authority to punish the wicked.
The idea of what this act of sacrifice means is two-fold, in how I read it.
1. Despite being condemned as a sinner by the then judges of the Law, God vindicated him by raising him from the dead, thus redeeming us from that old written Mosaic Law.
2. Jesus by being in the form of a sinful man, like us, and having all appearance of being an actual sinner, being scourged and publicly humiliated and killed in a very unpleasant manner, gives us hope for our own lives, though we strive in the spirit for righteousness, will never live up to the heavenly standard of perfection, we can see heaven anyway, in our resurrected bodies, free from those inherent imperfections that could not be eliminated as long as we lived.
edit on 16-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 01:59 PM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

Believe that He came to become sin for us so that we may have Eternal Life.
Of course I believe that, because the Bible says so.


You believe because the Bible says so and not from your experience of knowing Jesus personally through an inward relationship? If you believe that because the Bible says so, what about those who never had the Bible in present form? What about the early Christians before the Bible is now and only through hearing letters from church to church?

Did Paul believe because the Bible said so? If we never had the Bible, would we know Jesus and did He exist only in the Bible?



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


But Jesus was not a sinner like us. The idea that He was a sinner is unbiblical. Jesus was the Spotless Lamb of God. He paid for our sins so that our Faith in His payment brings Eternal Life. If you reject that knowledge, and cling to the darkness, there is no other sacrifice. By rejecting His payment, you are essentially saying,"no thanks, I prefer my shackles of sin over Eternal Life".



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 12:45 AM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

The idea that He was a sinner is unbiblical.
Matthew 26:65
. . . the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! . . .
Matthew 26:66
. . . "He is worthy of death," they answered. . . .
Matthew 27:12
When he was accused by the chief priests and the elders, he gave no answer.
Matthew 27:26
. . . he (Pilate) had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified.
Matthew 27:46
"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mark 14:64
"You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?" They all condemned him as worthy of death.
Mark 15:1
. . . the chief priests, with the elders, the teachers of the law and the whole Sanhedrin, made their plans. So they bound Jesus, led him away and handed him over to Pilate.
Mark 15:3-5
The chief priests accused him of many things. So again Pilate asked him, “Aren’t you going to answer? See how many things they are accusing you of.”
But Jesus still made no reply, and Pilate was amazed.
Mark 15:15
He had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified.
Mark 15:34
“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
Luke 23:2
“We have found this man subverting our nation. . . .
Luke 23:10
The chief priests and the teachers of the law were standing there, vehemently accusing him.
John 18:29-31
So Pilate came out to them and asked, “What charges are you bringing against this man?”
“If he were not a criminal,” they replied, “we would not have handed him over to you.”
Pilate said, “Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law.”
“But we have no right to execute anyone,” they objected.
John 19:7
The Jewish leaders insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die . . .
John 19:16
. . . Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified. . . .
2 Corinthians 5:21
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole."
1 Peter 2:24
"He himself bore our sins" in his body on the cross . . .

Jesus was the Spotless Lamb of God. He paid for our sins so that our Faith in His payment brings Eternal Life. If you reject that knowledge, and cling to the darkness, there is no other sacrifice. By rejecting His payment, you are essentially saying,"no thanks, I prefer my shackles of sin over Eternal Life".
I think you said all that already.
How about showing me the verse that says anything about a payment?
edit on 17-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

You believe because the Bible says so and not from your experience of knowing Jesus personally through an inward relationship?
A lot of people think a lot of different things, which may be OK for them according to their particular experience, but it is not good enough for me, having another experience, one that includes the idea of God's truth being found in the Bible.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Most of those passages were of the hypocritical Pharisees falsely accusing Jesus of sins He never committed (because He was sinless). He never countered the accusations because He knew the people had already made up their minds, and He was TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK.

And you quoted it yourself:

2 Corinthians 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Jesus had no sin, but became sin on the cross as God imputed the sins of the world (past, present, future) to Him. This is why God temporarily turned away from Him...because Jesus was paying for our sins.

You quoted it yourself, so believe it. Jesus died for our sins. He was blameless and sinless as the sacrificial Lamb is spotless.

Why do you reject what is clear to see? There is no esoteric secrecy to salvation. It is simple enough for the uneducated to understand.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

Most of those passages were of the hypocritical Pharisees falsely accusing Jesus of sins He never committed (because He was sinless).
These weren't just Pharisees, and the verses may not even be talking about Pharisees in particular.
"the high priest"
"the chief priests and the elders"
"the teachers of the law and the whole Sanhedrin"

He never countered the accusations because He knew the people had already made up their minds, and He was TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK.
Back at that time, someone who was basically caught red handed, literally or figuratively, were gagged in order for them to not be able to try to say anything in self defense.

Jesus had no sin, but became sin on the cross as God imputed the sins of the world (past, present, future) to Him.
OK, that's a theory, but do you have some sort of evidence to support this idea of "imputed sins"?

This is why God temporarily turned away from Him...because Jesus was paying for our sins.
You still haven't produced a verse about Jesus paying for anything.

Jesus died for our sins.
He died for those sins, to elevate them to a higher status.
We are always going to be sinful despite how righteous we otherwise act because we have these mortal corruptible bodies.
It is sort of a catch 22, where in order to get incorruptible bodies we need to be without sin.
But we can't be without sin because we have these mortal corruptible bodies.
Jesus breaks that conundrum by making a natural physical sinfulness that we can't avoid, acceptable.
Jesus wasn't able to avoid the sin imputed to him by the Sanhedrin and at the same time say the truth as he saw it.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 

Why do you reject what is clear to see? There is no esoteric secrecy to salvation. It is simple enough for the uneducated to understand.
I can't accept dumbed-down cult theories because I am too educated for that.
What you are saying is not clear and it needs to be taught through indoctrination, 'till it seems normal because of pure repetition.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 09:40 AM
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I messed up on my last post by accidentally clicking reply to my own post, rather than to BELIEVERpriest's post.
Anyway, as to my remark on being gagged, that comes from studying the parable from Jesus of the marriage banquet and the man who somehow got in without having the appropriate attire.
He was obviously guilty by his standing there in front of the host in the wrong clothes.
Then it says that he was dumb, where it actually can mean that he was prevented from responding verbally, by physical means.
This is information that I got from reading Bible commentaries, and not stuff that I got out of thin air, or something, which I was accused of earlier as to where I got my interpretations from.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:16 PM
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ctophil

Akragon

ServantOfTheLamb
reply to post by Akragon
 


Oh? Then why.did the Jews want to kill Jesus?



That has nothing to do with anything... They killed him for blasphemy

In the Judaic faith anything pertaining to God is blasphemy... They can't even spell the word God

They didn't understand what he was saying... but calling yourself the son of God is still blasphemy in that faith

No where did he say I am equal to God... get your facts straight



Here is an example of a Church Doctrine where people blindly follow. Most folks believe that Jesus is equal to God. Friends, as Akragon said, Jesus never stated that he was equal to God. But you ask, what did Jesus mean when he said, "I and My Father are One." Isn't that being equal? No. He was talking about an aspect of the Uni-verse or One Song. We are ALL ONE with each other. You and I are ONE. God and I are ONE. We all came from Oneness of Source, which is God. Master Jesus was not saying that he was equal to God. He was actually saying he was part of God. You and I are also parts of God. Do you understand?

The Jews have traditions (just like every other culture in the world) and laws that seem blasphemous no matter what you say that are outside their religious laws. All the teachings that I make across ATS will seem blasphemous back in the day, as well as in modern times. There are parts of the world who would lock me up or kill me even these days. Master Jesus was killed for his teachings that seemed to contradict almost everything the Pharisees of Israel taught.


I think you have missed the mark on this subject about Jesus and his father. God the father is spirit and always has been. God the father could not come and die on the cross. How can you nail a spirit to the cross? BTW: - Who made the Earth, mankind and everything on this planet? If you have studied the Bible it tells you. Who is the God......I AM I AM in the OT and who is the God in book of Revelations who says I AM I AM? Can you answer these specific questions?

Thank you



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 05:11 PM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

The "no other sacrifice" is for those who accept Jesus but then go on to commit sins.
I have yet to have anyone show me a verse that describes "Jesus' payment for our sins".
I don't deny Jesus' sacrifice, I just question how some people classify the nature of it.
My "issue" is about reading the Bible for what it actually says, rather than just data mining it for "proof" texts to support a theoretical system, be it for feeling "saved", or for predicting the future.
True salvation is only through righteousness, which we have because of Jesus who draws us to God in the knowledge that He is offering us a spirit that can change our lives from the inside.
edit on 16-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


There are many verses in the Bible that state Jesus paid for our sins.

Jesus Paid The Price

John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

1 Corinthians 7:23 - You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men.

1 Corinthians 6:20 - For you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

1 John 4:10 - In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Isaiah 53:5 - But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.

2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Romans 10:9 - Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 5:8 - But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 3:10 - As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

Acts 2:21 - And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’

John 15:13 - Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

Isaiah 53:1-12 - Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.

Revelation 21:8 - But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Revelation 20:14 - Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Revelation 5:9 - And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,

1 Peter 2:24 - He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

James 5:14-15 - Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

Hebrews 10:23 - Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.

1 Timothy 2:6 - Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Colossians 1:13 - He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,

Ephesians 5:2 - And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Ephesians 1:7 - In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Galatians 6:8 - For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Romans 11:33 - Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!

Romans 8:28 - And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Romans 8:2 - For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

Romans 5:6 - For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

Romans 3:25 - Whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

Acts 26:20 - But declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

Acts 10:43 - To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Acts 2:38 - And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 16:13 - When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

John 14:15 - “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

John 10:10 - The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.

John 3:36 - Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Luke 12:32 - “Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Luke 6:27 - “But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,

Luke 6:19 - And all the crowd sought to touch him, for power came out from him and healed them all.

Matthew 4:1-4 - Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

Isaiah 55:11 - So shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

Isaiah 55:10-11 - For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater, so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

1 John 2:2 - He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:34 PM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by jmdewey60
 

Why do you reject what is clear to see? There is no esoteric secrecy to salvation. It is simple enough for the uneducated to understand.
I can't accept dumbed-down cult theories because I am too educated for that.
What you are saying is not clear and it needs to be taught through indoctrination, 'till it seems normal because of pure repetition.



May I ask, what is the source of your education?

While it is very easy to accuse someone of being in a cult, simply because you disagree with their doctrine, can you tell me then, what is the source of your religious education outside of Bible commentaries? You do realize that Biblical commentators come from denominations and their own motivations for interpreting according to their denominations?

Now this accusation of indoctrination, what is the source of your own indoctrination? That means that you also follow the particular views of a particular denomination, even if it calls itself non-denominational. Were you indoctrinated through Biblical commentary? Were you indoctrinated through websites? Were you indoctrinated through conspiracy theories?

You were indoctrinated and the very denomination you were educated by holds to a specifically enforced theology, those of us who have read through you already addressed this issue with you. You do hold to a cult teaching through Replacement Theology.

I asked you earlier, do you simply believe Jesus by what you have read what He did and not what He is doing now? Is Jesus still active in the world today?



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Jesus was called the Lamb of God by John the baptist. John (who was filled with the Holy Spirit from birth) recognized that Jesus' role was to die on the cross under the penalty of our sins, not His own sins (because He was sinless). Jesus fulfilled the symbol of the Spotless Lamb for the slaughter...imputation to atonement.

These verses were already posted by Jesuslives4u, but I will repeat them to prove my "theory".

1 John 2:2 - He is the PROPITIATION for OUR SINS, and not for ours only but also for the SINS of the WHOLE WORLD.

Revelation 5:9 - And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you RANSOMED people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation

1 Peter 2:24 - HE HIMSELF BORE OUR SINS IN HIS BODY ON THE TREE, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

1 Timothy 2:6 - Who GAVE HIMSELF as a RANSOM for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

The above verses make it abundantly clear that Jesus died for ALL of our sins. He knew no sins and became sin on the cross. Words like "propitiation" and "ransom" specifically indicate that Jesus bought us from the slave market of sin so that we could have eternal life in Him. He accomplished this transaction on the cross.

This is the word of God, not the commentaries of man. The fact that you call me an indoctrinated cult follower is a revelation of your true character. Set aside the arrogance, the name calling and your worldly education, and hear the words of the Lord.

John 3:

16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 “HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM IS NOT JUDGED; HE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE HAS BEEN JUDGED ALREADY, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by Jesuslives4u
 

There are many verses in the Bible that state Jesus paid for our sins.
Saying that "we were bought" is a long way from saying "Jesus paid for our sins".

"the forgiveness of our trespasses" in Ephesians 1:7 should be an indication of how sins are dealt with, there is no demand for payment.

Romans 8:2 - For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
This is what frees us, following the spirit into righteousness.
edit on 17-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

You do hold to a cult teaching through Replacement Theology.
What you are according to your Dispensationalist indoctrination calling "Replacement Theology" is not a cult belief, but the fundamental belief of Christianity, which is that the position which was formerly held by the physical Israel, is now held by the spiritual Israel, being God's chosen people, the church.
You seem to have a loyalty to anyone calling themselves a Jew, which I would say is a cult and has nothing to do with normal Christianity.

Sorry that normal Christianity seems so peculiar to you but it is not my fault, you should blame your parents or whoever got you into the cult that you belong to.
edit on 17-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

Jesus was called the Lamb of God by John the baptist. John (who was filled with the Holy Spirit from birth) recognized that Jesus' role was to die on the cross under the penalty of our sins, not His own sins (because He was sinless). Jesus fulfilled the symbol of the Spotless Lamb for the slaughter...imputation to atonement.
Could you point me to the place in the Bible where it describes a "spotless lamb" being slaughtered to pay for sins?

1 John 2:2 - He is the PROPITIATION for OUR SINS, and not for ours only but also for the SINS of the WHOLE WORLD.
That was the verse that I was using to prove my theory.
It doesn't support your theory.
You could probably just make up definitions for the words in the verse to make it sound like your theory, but it won't hold up to scrutiny very well.

Revelation 5:9 - And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you RANSOMED people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation
First off, Revelation does not identify this "lamb" as Jesus.
Anyway, the word more closely identifies a male sheep, than specifically a lamb.
I take it to represent the church, and specifically the martyrs of Christianity, who I see as the real star of the book, those who were willing to have their robes washed in the blood of Jesus, meaning with their own blood, after the fashion of Jesus and his bloody death.

1 Peter 2:24 - HE HIMSELF BORE OUR SINS IN HIS BODY ON THE TREE, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
It does not say your sin specifically.
He bore the stigma of sin, as was clear by the very fact that he was killed after a specific manner reserved for criminals.

1 Timothy 2:6 - Who GAVE HIMSELF as a RANSOM for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.
Jesus offered himself to set us free, and it says how that happens in verse 4, coming to the knowledge of the truth.

Words like "propitiation" and "ransom" specifically indicate that Jesus bought us from the slave market of sin
You could speculate as to the writer's intention as to the specific meaning someone could glean from it but it is never stated that way. The statements are already highly figurative as they exist.

This is the word of God, not the commentaries of man.
Wow. You seem to have selective vision here, where you find it impossible to be critical of your own sayings.

edit on 17-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



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