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The importance of Spiritual Discernment when reading the Bible.

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posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


"The question you have asked yourself is why has the Qu'ran survived so long?
Just because something survives two thousand years, that doesn't mean it's 'truth'.
The prayers to the Egyptian gods are still surviving to this day on the pyramids.
That doesn't mean the Egyptian gods are real.
The 7,000 year old Summerian creation myths still survive to this day on clay tablets.
That doesn't mean the Summerian creation myths are real. "

I didn't say that it was true because it survived 2000 years. I said if God was real we would expect to see it preserved, and if we look we find it has in fact been persevered with over 23,000 more manuscripts than any other ancient writing.

I don't think the Bible and Qu'ran have much in common in terms of their creation. Bible=66 books by 40 authors over centuries
Qu'ran=writings of one Man.




posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 05:17 AM
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ServantOfTheLamb
I didn't say that it was true because it survived 2000 years. I said if God was real we would expect to see it preserved...

- just because something lasts a long time, that doesn't mean there is any magical 'preservation'.
- I gave examples of MANY religious texts that are older than the Old Testament stories. They have lasted 7,000 years. That doesn't mean they are preserved by God and that doesn't mean that they are accurate about God/gods.


I don't think the Bible and Qu'ran have much in common in terms of their creation.

THE POINT WAS that the Qu'ran also claims to be God's word, and it has been lasted 1500 years.
The Qu'ran obviously is fictional ... and yet it is still here 1500 years later.
So it's very possible for false information about God to last .. that doesnt' mean that that information is accurate.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 05:19 AM
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ServantOfTheLamb
Many read my threads, and immediately seek to argue rather than truly discuss and seek truth.

You have been given the truth about Noahs Ark THREE TIMES on THREE THREADS now. If you are really seeking truth, you'll acknowledge the FACT that Noahs Ark couldn't have happened. If you don't acknowledge that fact, then you have no legs to stand on and you shouldn't tell others to 'seek truth' - because you really aren't.

edit on 2/28/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 12:09 PM
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FlyersFan

ServantOfTheLamb
I didn't say that it was true because it survived 2000 years. I said if God was real we would expect to see it preserved...

- just because something lasts a long time, that doesn't mean there is any magical 'preservation'.
- I gave examples of MANY religious texts that are older than the Old Testament stories. They have lasted 7,000 years. That doesn't mean they are preserved by God and that doesn't mean that they are accurate about God/gods.


I don't think the Bible and Qu'ran have much in common in terms of their creation.

THE POINT WAS that the Qu'ran also claims to be God's word, and it has been lasted 1500 years.
The Qu'ran obviously is fictional ... and yet it is still here 1500 years later.
So it's very possible for false information about God to last .. that doesnt' mean that that information is accurate.



I agree. Just because something is Old doesn't mean it is preserved by God. However, you are still missing the point. The point is not about the validity of the Bible or if its God's word. I am only saying that if the Biblical God existed, then we should expect to see a world in which the Bible has been preserved. It has been. That is not evidence for the Bible in anyway. I was originally just trying to get Enlightened to understand that his is very bias when it comes to the Bible. He claims the Bible has been preserved so long because of TPTB. I was trying to get him to see that he has no problem accepting that other ancient writings have been preserved through the ages without their help.

You say you gave many examples of stories Older than OT stories, but I also mentioned that the Hebrew Mazzaroth predates the Zodiac. Meaning we actually have no idea how long people were worshiping the God of the Bible.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 12:15 PM
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FlyersFan

ServantOfTheLamb
Many read my threads, and immediately seek to argue rather than truly discuss and seek truth.

You have been given the truth about Noahs Ark THREE TIMES on THREE THREADS now. If you are really seeking truth, you'll acknowledge the FACT that Noahs Ark couldn't have happened. If you don't acknowledge that fact, then you have no legs to stand on and you shouldn't tell others to 'seek truth' - because you really aren't.

edit on 2/28/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)


I haven't ran away. I just don't care to take the time to argue with six seven evidences at once, especially when I believe they are all circumstantial and hold no room for intervention of a supernatural being. You cannot say you logically disproved the Bible, unless first disprove the existence of a Creator that has the ability to change the laws of the physical world. Once you have done this, then I would move on to Noah's Ark, because that is going to make it much easier for you to LOGICALLY disprove Noah's Ark. I agree that certain evidences when taken without the idea of a Creator appear to be 100% disproof of the Bible. It is only disproof however because you ignore the possibility of an Intelligent Designer.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 12:17 PM
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ServantOfTheLamb
I am only saying that if the Biblical God existed, then we should expect to see a world in which the Bible has been preserved.

I could easily say that about the 'god' of the Qu'ran. If the 'god' of the Qu'ran existed, then we should expect to see a world in which the Qu'ran has been preserved. It has been even though we know the Qu'ran is fiction.

I could easily say that about the 'god' of the ancient Egyptians. If the 'god' of the ancient Egyptians existed, then we could expect to see a world in which the 'gods' have been preserved. They have been, even though we know the Qu'ran is fiction.

I could easily say that about the 'gods' of the ancient Hindu religion. If the 'gods' of the ancient Hindus existed, then we could expect to see a world in which the 'gods' have been preserved. They have been, even though we know much of the Hindu mythological 'gods' are fiction.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 12:26 PM
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ServantOfTheLamb
You cannot say you logically disproved the Bible, unless first disprove the existence of a Creator that has the ability to change the laws of the physical world.

You called for people to use discernment. I suggest you do the same. You are running around with your fingers in your ears and your eyes closed while singing 'lalalalalaaa God can do anything' ... ignoring the facts presented. There can be no reasoning with that ....



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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I could easily say that about the 'god' of the Qu'ran. If the 'god' of the Qu'ran existed, then we should expect to see a world in which the Qu'ran has been preserved. It has been even though we know the Qu'ran is fiction. I could easily say that about the 'god' of the ancient Egyptians. If the 'god' of the ancient Egyptians existed, then we could expect to see a world in which the 'gods' have been preserved. They have been, even though we know the Qu'ran is fiction. I could easily say that about the 'gods' of the ancient Hindu religion. If the 'gods' of the ancient Hindus existed, then we could expect to see a world in which the 'gods' have been preserved. They have been, even though we know much of the Hindu mythological 'gods' are fiction.
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Well now we are getting into why choose the Bible and Christianity over the other huge number of religions. Well lets start out by saying that the Scriptures for the Bible are quite different than other ancient writings. The number of authors and the span of time over which it was written is unrivaled.

Why not the Qu'ran over the Bible?
Muslims claim to accept Jesus as a prophet, but not the Son of God.




Buddha did not claim to be God; Moses never said that he was Yahweh; Mohammed did not identify himself as Allah; and nowhere will you find Zoroaster claiming to be Ahura Mazda. Yet Jesus, the carpenter from Nazareth, said that he who has seen Him (Jesus) has seen the Father (John 14:9). The claims of Christ are many and varied. He said that He existed before Abraham (John 8:58), and that He was equal with the Father (John 5:17, 18). Jesus claimed the ability to forgive sins (Mark 2:5–7), which the Bible teaches was something that God alone could do (Isaiah 43:25).


Source

Jesus claims to be equal with the Father, and capable of doing things only God can do. This meas Muhammad disagrees with someone he accepts to be a prophet of God....which means by his own beliefs something he said is wrong. Muhammad disproved Islam on his own.

Hinduism says that the world rest upon the back of a giant turtle. We know this to be false, so thats a no go.

The Egyptian creation myths are dis proven by the fact that water cannot exist before the universe existed, and there Creator(Ra) is the sun, which we know had a beginning so that is a negative as well.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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ServantOfTheLamb
Well now we are getting into why choose the Bible and Christianity ...

No, we are getting into your circular logic. We are getting into the fact that you are saying 'if it's still here it must be from God', but the fact is there are a lot of religions, many older than Christianity, and they are here. They can't all be from God. So your statement is wrong.

Hinduism says that the world rest upon the back of a giant turtle. We know this to be false, so thats a no go.

The old testament says that Noahs Ark happened. We know this to be false, so that's a no go.

The Egyptian creation myths are dis proven by the fact that water cannot exist before the universe existed, and there Creator(Ra) is the sun, which we know had a beginning so that is a negative as well.

Noahs Ark has been disproven by all the facts that I gave, so we know this is a negative as well.

You are not using the same investigative process on your beliefs as you do with the beliefs of others.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Lol I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I say you misinterpret your facts, and you can say I put all my trust in God.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 03:20 PM
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ServantOfTheLamb
I say you misinterpret your facts,

Well ...
1 - They aren't 'my' facts. They are just facts.
2 - They really aren't open to interpretation ... they are what they are. Straightforward.

and you can say I put all my trust in God.

Trusting God is fine. But ignoring facts isn't a 'trust in God' issue. It's just ignoring facts.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


We are talking about historical science. We don't know what really happened, but can only observe what is left and infer what happened. As I have said I have done my own research into Noah's Ark and have found an answer that satisfies me enough to take on faith that it occurred. This does not mean that I ignore facts, but rather that I infer different scenarios about how these things can be observed .

SHall I just post a bunch of evidence that shows a global flood occurred and say that I proved the Flood occurred ?

Polystrate forest can be found all over the world-therefore a Global Flood has occurred.

Widespread marine strata and fossils in the earth's highest mountains and upon elevated continental plateau-Global Flood has occurred see I proved it thats a fact. You cannot infer anything different occurred in the past there it is got ya on that one.

"There is extensive evidence for the layers of strata in the geologic record being laid down very quickly, similar to the processes observed when Mount St. Helens erupted. Rapid global formation of sedimentary rock beds is evidence that the earth is thousands of years old.

The major formations of the earth’s crust are sedimentary rock beds. These were formed by rapid erosion, transportation, and deposition by water. There is no global evidence of long periods of time between these layers or indications that these layers took long periods of time to form.

For example, sandstone is a major feature of the lower part of the Grand Canyon. The same rock layer is found in Utah, Wyoming, Montana, Colorado, South Dakota, the Midwest, the Ozarks, and in northern New York state. Equivalent formations are found across wide portions of Canada, eastern Greenland, and Scotland.

The flood that covered the earth formed the large geological structures that we can observe today."

www.icr.org...

Oh guess I win there again. The Flood has happened I proved it, and you are just ignoring facts.

I am sorry to be such a smart arse, but do see now why you have not dis proven anything, but only inferred what occurred based of the evidence you have seen? This is why it was much easier to just tell you that I take it on Faith that the Flood occurred, because you take it on Faith that it did not. We are both just making inferences about the evidence at hand, and must rely on faith that they occurred the way we are saying they occurred.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 



Jesus claims to be equal with the Father, and capable of doing things only God can do.


Jesus did not claim to be equal to God

Paul said it, John said it... the Jews said he said it...

Jesus said the Father is Greater then himself...






posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Oh? Then why.did the Jews want to kill Jesus?



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 


My Brother, people argue with you because they are trying to be right, protecting their pride. Those who truly seek wisdom, they will humble themselves. For meekness is the only way to reach deeper insight and true wisdom. Because when you think you know it all, then you know nothing at all. There is always knowledge higher than what you know. Even God continue to expand Himself, why not you? This is the question indeed all should ask themselves.

As for the dream that you had, it was a brief out-of-body experience. What you saw was a lower part of the 4th Dimension. This lower part is very dark, full of intense, fearful energy. Only when you either use your 6th sense by accident or not, or by separating your higher body from your physical one, you can reach the 4th dimension. But it is a bit difficult to bypass the lower part at first. Though you are still at the beginning of spirituality, you are gaining some of God's Pure Energy; therefore you are also beginning to experience some OBE or out-of-body experiences. Keep up what you're doing and you will have more of these intense dreams/OBEs. It is a way to gauge your spiritual progress. If you begin to experience higher worlds (like the higher parts of the 4th), then you are surely progressing. But remember this, always question what you know. Stay with God and keep close with Him all your days. Then, you will find that deep within your heart, there is all the wisdom you need. Was this a premonition to a "rapture" of sorts? No, it is not. It is simply part of your spiritual training. But you are on the "Path of Probation." The higher you go, the more blissful it feels in your dreams. And eventually, you will know how far away you are from the "rapture" or "ascension." The "rapture" itself is not a group thing as discussed by churches. It is an individual thing. Watch out for doctrines that keep you stuck, focus on questioning everything, then God's Truth will come.
edit on 2/28/2014 by ctophil because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/28/2014 by ctophil because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 11:12 PM
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ServantOfTheLamb
reply to post by Akragon
 


Oh? Then why.did the Jews want to kill Jesus?



That has nothing to do with anything... They killed him for blasphemy

In the Judaic faith anything associating yourself with God is considered blasphemy... They can't even spell the word God

They didn't understand what he was saying... but calling yourself the son of God is still blasphemy in that faith

No where did he say I am equal to God... get your facts straight


edit on 28-2-2014 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 11:23 PM
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Akragon

ServantOfTheLamb
reply to post by Akragon
 


Oh? Then why.did the Jews want to kill Jesus?



That has nothing to do with anything... They killed him for blasphemy

In the Judaic faith anything pertaining to God is blasphemy... They can't even spell the word God

They didn't understand what he was saying... but calling yourself the son of God is still blasphemy in that faith

No where did he say I am equal to God... get your facts straight



Here is an example of a Church Doctrine where people blindly follow. Most folks believe that Jesus is equal to God. Friends, as Akragon said, Jesus never stated that he was equal to God. But you ask, what did Jesus mean when he said, "I and My Father are One." Isn't that being equal? No. He was talking about an aspect of the Uni-verse or One Song. We are ALL ONE with each other. You and I are ONE. God and I are ONE. We all came from Oneness of Source, which is God. Master Jesus was not saying that he was equal to God. He was actually saying he was part of God. You and I are also parts of God. Do you understand?

The Jews have traditions (just like every other culture in the world) and laws that seem blasphemous no matter what you say that are outside their religious laws. All the teachings that I make across ATS will seem blasphemous back in the day, as well as in modern times. There are parts of the world who would lock me up or kill me even these days. Master Jesus was killed for his teachings that seemed to contradict almost everything the Pharisees of Israel taught.



posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 





Originally posted by Akragon
Jesus did not claim to be equal to God

Paul said it, John said it... the Jews said he said it...

Jesus said the Father is Greater then himself...





Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb
Oh? Then why.did the Jews want to kill Jesus?


Actually, this seems to be a common misconception… Akragon, is right.

Jesus wasn’t crucified, for claiming to be God the Father…

Here are the key verses…




John 10:29-33
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.



The Pharisees completely miss-understood what Jesus meant by “I and the Father are one”, and thought He was claiming to be God the Father…

But Jesus then corrects them on this, (in the verse below), by pointing out that He is Gods Son…




John 10:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?



The Pharisees see Jesus claiming to be “Gods Son”, as Blasphemy as well…

The accusation being thrown towards Jesus at his trail, was not that he was claiming to be God, but that He was claiming to be the Son of God…

For example…




Matthew 26:62-66
Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 63But Jesus remained silent.

The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."

"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?"
"He is worthy of death," they answered.



So Jesus clearly admits to being the “Son of God”, according to the verses above…

And…




John 19:6-7
As soon as the chief priests and their officials saw him, they shouted, “Crucify! Crucify!” But Pilate answered, “You take him and crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him.” 7 The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.”



So as you can see, although they initially miss-understood Jesus, in John 10, Jesus was really claiming to be the “Son of God”, but the Pharisees, still considered that to be blasphemy anyway. Jesus was crucified for claiming to be the “Son of God”, and not for claiming to be God…

- JC



posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 01:57 PM
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ServantOfTheLamb
Widespread marine strata and fossils in the earth's highest mountains and upon elevated continental plateau-Global Flood has occurred see I proved it thats a fact. You cannot infer anything different occurred in the past there it is got ya on that one.

Dead wrong. The fossils are from BEFORE 4,300 bc. They are MILLIONS of years old. So no .. your story is NOT fact and you didn't 'get me on that one'. I've been fossil hunting in Canada .. inland S. Ontario .. and I've got a bucket of those ocean floor fossils in my garage ... and they are MILLIONS of years old. Not a few thousand.

Rapid global formation of sedimentary rock beds is evidence that the earth is thousands of years old.

The Earth is NOT a 6,000 years old. There are intact civilizations that date back tens of thousands of years (India). There are artifacts and fossil remains from humans from tens of thousands of years ago. You are dead wrong.

do see now why you have not dis proven anything,

Science has disproven Noahs Ark. It simply did not happen.

edit on 3/1/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 





Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb
When I see some people attempt to interpret Scripture it scares me as to how absolutely off the wall their arguments sound to me. It is like they purposely forget certain parts of the Bible all together in order to "torture" the data into a meaning that is completely incoherent with Scripture. This my friends is why its important to ensure that we approach the Bible with a sense of Spiritual Discernment. This goes for non-believers and believers alike I mean we are talking about the eternal condition of your soul.



The Bible is like an extremely complex labyrinth or maze, and the only way through it, is by using discernment. Picture the most complex puzzle you can possibly imagine; and think about how you are then going to make your way through it…

The only hope of making your way through it successfully, is by following guiding principles…IMO

Martial Arts is a good example. The reason behind the philosophy of “first learn the form, and then forget the form.” is because the form in it’s completeness, is not the truth, it is only a guide to the truth. And it’s only a guide to the truth, because only certain parts of it are true, i.e. only certain parts of it, are using the key guiding principles. Where as other parts of the form, don’t use the key guiding principles at all, which makes them ineffective and therefore useless.

It’s the same with the Bible. Discernment comes through the guiding principles, and the guiding principles come through Knowledge, Wisdom and Understanding, and those three come directly from the Spirit of God. Understanding God, and the truth, is the ultimate goal.

Finding truth is not about accepting something as true. Truth must be sought out, by asking oneself the right questions. Asking the right questions, is the knocking (seeking) on the door, that Jesus is talking about in the NT. And you will know when this happens, because you will be putting your heart and soul into that seeking process.

- JC



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