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The importance of Spiritual Discernment when reading the Bible.

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posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 10:21 PM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
 

because to him, all Jews are in an evil cult
I never said anything like that.
This is just your way of dealing with a situation that you have no solution for, which is going to personal attacks through false accusations.

Dispensationalism is the cult which I think is the antichrist because it worships man above God by saying the opposite of what Jesus told Nicodemus, that being physically born to a particular bloodline does not make you a member of the kingdom of God.


Like, its so funny how you rebuke "personal attacks", and then go on to call WarminIndy a dispensationalist cult follower.

If anyone is the Dispensationslist here, its me...and there is nothing wrong with that.

We have given you theology backed by scripture, and you consistently spew propaganda and dis-information.

The only thing you have proven in this thread is that you are not our spiritual sibling, you love the world and hate Christ. If it were not so, you would not blaspheme the Holy Spirit, discredit Christ, and ridicule His body.

Your eternal fate is on your own head.




posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

Throughout the time I have interacted with you on ATS, you have consistently accused me of being in a cult, being in a "Jewish cult" and "indoctrinated through a Jewish cult".
Could you post a link to anywhere that I said that?

In your last statement, I believe you are very clear in your accusation against my ancestry.
You are really paranoid.

You are also a Dispensationlist because of your belief in grace to the Christians and those must be Greek.
There is a dispensationalist interpretation, like you mention, but then there is the Dispensationalist cult that feels like it can reverse what God ordained by declaring the end of Christianity in favor of a Jewish conquest of earth.


edit on 18-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 10:32 PM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
 

As hilasterion was used in the Septuagint, regarding the Day of Atonement rites, the word for mercy seat or place of offering is in Hebrew kapporeth and directly translated from hilasterion, to appease.
The idea was to make a comparison between the physical things of the former religion, and the spiritual things of the new religion, and how the old is obsolete in the reality of the new, better thing.
So there isn't a literal on-to-one correlation because it is just a metaphor.
I have said this before and will repeat it again, some people just don't get metaphor and can only see things in the literal, and so this is, in my opinion, the source for all the disagreements that I get to what I say about religion and the Bible on this forum.

The reason for the sheep, because Jesus died at Passover.
The Gospels don't say that he was killed on the day of Passover.
Regardless of that, even if he was, then what does that mean? It doesn't mean anything.
Passover was when there was more people in Jerusalem than at any other time, and the idea was his being "lifted up", both literally and figuratively.

edit on 18-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Are you reading a Bible that doesn't say that? Excuse me, but they are very clear that it was Passover. In fact, Jesus says to Peter "go to Jerusalem and prepare the Passover". What does that mean?

And as you apparently have no concept of feast days in Judaism, then let me enlighten you.

From the first night of Passover, the family seder is eaten. Christ died on the day that the Sabbath begins, hence Friday because Friday night was the beginning of Passover. 50 days later is Shevuot, the Feast of First Fruits. This was 10 days after Christ ascended into heaven because He walked and talked and appeared for 40 days between the time he rose from the dead and when He ascended. "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come". The day of Pentecost is First Fruits, or Shavuot.

Therefore, it is not only implicit, but explicit in the Bible that Jesus died on Passover, as that Passover fell on the Sabbath. The women only put his body in the tomb because after the Sabbath, they could go dress it, this was no surprise in that Jewish funerals were 24 hours after death, except for feast days and Sabbath.

You aren't going to get out of Passover as the day if you accept Pentecost, which is the First Fruits, and as Jesus being the First Born of the dead, then the Holy Ghost imparted to man, the First Fruit. Shavuot, Pentecost, 50 days after the first night of Passover. There is no getting away from the explicit account in the Gospels and Acts about when it happened.


In the Bible, Shavuot is called the Festival of Weeks (Hebrew: חג השבועות, Ḥag ha-Shavuot, Exodus 34:22, Deuteronomy 16:10); Festival of Reaping (Hebrew: חג הקציר, Ḥag ha-Katsir, Exodus 23:16), and Day of the First Fruits (Hebrew יום הבכורים, Yom ha-Bikkurim, Numbers 28:26).


Why was Jerusalem filled with people that day? Shavuot. First Fruits, the Feast of Weeks.


At the Temple in Jerusalem, each farmer would present his Bikkurim to a Kohen in a ceremony that followed the text of Deut. 26:1-10.
This text begins by stating: "An Aramean tried to destroy my father," referring to Laban's efforts to weaken Jacob and rob him of his progeny (Rashi on Deut. 26:5)—or by an alternate translation, the text states "My father was a wandering Aramean," referring to the fact that Jacob was a penniless wanderer in the land of Aram for 20 years (ibid., Abraham ibn Ezra).
The text proceeds to retell the history of the Jewish people as they went into exile in Ancient Egypt and were enslaved and oppressed; following which God redeemed them and brought them to the land of Israel.
The ceremony of Bikkurim conveys the Jew's gratitude to God both for the first fruits of the field and for His guidance throughout Jewish history (Scherman, p. 1068).


The story of Shavuot is God redeeming them from Egypt (which translates to the spiritual Christian, or the born again believer as redeeming from sin. Spiritual bondage is Egypt). Where is your gratitude to God for bringing you out of Egypt?

Here is a good site, Meaning of Shavuot Sorry, it's made by Messianic Jews though, don't want to alarm you.

Notice here, that it is seven weeks, where have we heard this before about seven weeks? But anyway, seven weeks and then celebration of the harvest. There is a remembrance from the Book of Ruth that is read.

What happened in the Torah that happened in the Upper Room? The Lord came down in a thick smoke. God let's you know that He repeats Himself in patterns. Passover to Shevuot, has both physical and spiritual meaning. Jesus fulfilled both.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

If anyone is the Dispensationslist here, its me...and there is nothing wrong with that.
That's a cult, and not normal Christianity.
It was invented in 1800 by John Nelson Darby to discredit Christianity and to promote zionism and the land grab in Palestine by the Jews.
The money people behind the movement, that finance it, care nothing about your salvation or soul because they don't believe that you have a soul, being a goyim (cattle).
So they are happy to feed you a distortion of the Gospel to make you feel happy to be raptured off the planet, by giving you "instant salvation" that will guarantee you a free ride to heaven.


edit on 18-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 10:39 PM
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BELIEVERpriest

jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
 

because to him, all Jews are in an evil cult
I never said anything like that.
This is just your way of dealing with a situation that you have no solution for, which is going to personal attacks through false accusations.

Dispensationalism is the cult which I think is the antichrist because it worships man above God by saying the opposite of what Jesus told Nicodemus, that being physically born to a particular bloodline does not make you a member of the kingdom of God.


Like, its so funny how you rebuke "personal attacks", and then go on to call WarminIndy a dispensationalist cult follower.

If anyone is the Dispensationslist here, its me...and there is nothing wrong with that.

We have given you theology backed by scripture, and you consistently spew propaganda and dis-information.

The only thing you have proven in this thread is that you are not our spiritual sibling, you love the world and hate Christ. If it were not so, you would not blaspheme the Holy Spirit, discredit Christ, and ridicule His body.

Your eternal fate is on your own head.


BelieverPriest

I only know some people who have called themselves Dispensationalists. Nice to meet you too. One thing is for certain, we both agree that one must be born again by the Spirit. That knowing Christ is more than just reading about Him from a book, that personal and inward relationship is how we know Christ. If that is Dispensationalism, because the Spirit was poured out on the believers as they were gathered in the Upper Room, at the command of Jesus, then I suppose that makes me one.

Jesus is still active in the world today, still saving people and still changing hearts and lives, Jews, Pagans and yes, even Christians who called themselves Christians but didn't know Jesus are coming to the knowledge of Christ.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

Therefore, it is not only implicit, but explicit in the Bible that Jesus died on Passover, as that Passover fell on the Sabbath.
There were a few days devoted to different aspects pf the Passover but the specific day pf Passover itself was on the day after Jesus was crucified.

You aren't going to get out of Passover as the day if you accept Pentecost . . .
The Holy Spirit did not have to wait a specific number of days.
Again, it was a time when a lot of people would be gathered to hear what the message was.
edit on 18-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 10:52 PM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

If anyone is the Dispensationslist here, its me...and there is nothing wrong with that.
That's a cult, and not normal Christianity.
It was invented in 1800 by John Nelson Darby to discredit Christianity and to promote zionism and the land grab in Palestine by the Jews.
The money people behind the movement, that finance it, care nothing about your salvation or soul because they don't believe that you have a soul, being a goyim (cattle).
So they are happy to feed you a distortion of the Gospel to make you feel happy to be raptured off the planet, by giving you "instant salvation" that will guarantee you a free ride to heaven.


edit on 18-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


It is clearly evident that you don't really know what a Jew is.

Not all Jews are followers of the Talmud. Do I have a soul according to all the Jewish people I know? Yes, I do indeed have a soul. Goyim are cattle? Wrong, goyim means people or nations.

Psalm 117

hallelu et Adonai kol GOYIM shabe chuhu kol haumim
ki gavar eleinu chasdo ve'emat Adonai l'aloam haleluYah

That's the Hebrew, now here is the English

Praise the Lord all nations! Exalt Him all peoples!
For His steadfast love has overcome us and the
faithfulness of the Lord endures forever! Praise the Lord!

Stop reading conspiracy theories. Goyim simply means people, not cattle.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 11:04 PM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
 

Therefore, it is not only implicit, but explicit in the Bible that Jesus died on Passover, as that Passover fell on the Sabbath.
There were a few days devoted to different aspects pf the Passover but the specific day pf Passover itself was on the day after Jesus was crucified.

You aren't going to get out of Passover as the day if you accept Pentecost . . .
The Holy Spirit did not have to wait a specific number of days.
Again, it was a time when a lot of people would be gathered to hear what the message was.
edit on 18-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Uh uh JmDewey, you aren't going to get out of it. Whatever you say is based on conspiracy theorism and not the Gospels nor the Book of Acts, which you need to read for yourself.

Are you talking about the Upper Room? The 120 there? Well, interesting JmDewey, that's exactly the same number of singers and musicians in Solomon's Temple, when they all came into one voice and the Lord came down in a thick smoke. Notice the repeated patterns, jmdewey? Same number, same unity, same thing happened.


Acts 2: 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.


Who was Peter preaching to?


14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


The birth of the church, the first fruit, Shavuot.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I find that people are too afraid of "labels". Labeling is nothing more than categorization. I believe Jesus, the Son of God, is equal to God and willingly died for all of our sins. By that belief, I am labeled "Christian" from the Greek transliteration, or "Messianic" by Hebraic standards.

Dispensationalism is nothing more than the realization that God makes different Covenants for different (st)ages of human history. Each Covenant is Christo-centric. The Age of Eden is the Adamic Covenant. The pre-Israelite Age of Geniles is the Patriarchical Covenant. The Age of Israel is the Abrahamic Covenant, the Church Age is the Body of Christ Covenant. Through these covenants, God displays His attributes: Unity, Love, Grace, Justice, Mercy, Sovreignty, Omniscience, Omnipotence, Patience,etc.

At the very least, human history can be divided into two dispensations: Before the cross, and after the cross.

JMDewey once criticized me for labeling myself a "Messianic Dispensationalist", and I'm not even Semitic. It seems that JMDewey is Hebrew-phobic.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 11:15 PM
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BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I find that people are too afraid of "labels". Labeling is nothing more than categorization. I believe Jesus, the Son of God, is equal to God and willingly died for all of our sins. By that belief, I am labeled "Christian" from the Greek transliteration, or "Messianic" by Hebraic standards.

Dispensationalism is nothing more than the realization that God makes different Covenants for different (st)ages of human history. Each Covenant is Christo-centric. The Age of Eden is the Adamic Covenant. The pre-Israelite Age of Geniles is the Patriarchical Covenant. The Age of Israel is the Abrahamic Covenant, the Church Age is the Body of Christ Covenant. Through these covenants, God displays His attributes: Unity, Love, Grace, Justice, Mercy, Sovreignty, Omniscience, Omnipotence, Patience,etc.

At the very least, human history can be divided into two dispensations: Before the cross, and after the cross.

JMDewey once criticized me for labeling myself a "Messianic Dispensationalist", and I'm not even Semitic. It seems that JMDewey is Hebrew-phobic.


Yes, God does make different covenants with people. That is very true.

The Abrahamic covenant was different than the Mosaic covenant or the Davidic covenant. Exactly, I agree. Before the cross and after the cross. All the Old Testament prophets were looking toward, even Abraham who by faith went out to seek a city whose builder and maker is God.

He is very anti-Semitic.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 



I believe Jesus, the Son of God, is equal to God


A servant is not greater then his master...

John 14:28
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.




posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 11:19 PM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

If anyone is the Dispensationslist here, its me...and there is nothing wrong with that.
That's a cult, and not normal Christianity.
It was invented in 1800 by John Nelson Darby to discredit Christianity and to promote zionism and the land grab in Palestine by the Jews.
The money people behind the movement, that finance it, care nothing about your salvation or soul because they don't believe that you have a soul, being a goyim (cattle).
So they are happy to feed you a distortion of the Gospel to make you feel happy to be raptured off the planet, by giving you "instant salvation" that will guarantee you a free ride to heaven.


edit on 18-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Im sorry you feel that way, but you are wrong. Darby did not invent Dispensationalism, he simply gave it a name.

True Dispensationalism is anti-thetical to Zionism. It would profit you to understand that not all Hebrews are Zionist, and fewer Zionists are Hebrews.

The Hebrews are the seed of Abraham through Jacob. Zionism is a post-modern eccumentalist movement. Thats a very big difference. To blindly assume a Jew is a Zionist is racism.

A carefull Dispensationalist realizes that Jesus will regather Israel at His return, and that Zionism is nothing more than misplaced political zeal.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

To blindly assume a Jew is a Zionist is racism.
I never said anything like that.
Most Jews are not Hebrews but descendants of the Khazars who converted to the Jewish religion.
The people who created and now populate what they call Israel are Polish Ashkenazi Jews originally from Khazaria.

You may not be a zionist as a result of being a Dispensationalist, but a lot of them are, meaning they support Israel.

A carefull Dispensationalist realizes that Jesus will regather Israel at His return
A normal Christian realizes that already happened, they became Christians, and why most Jews today are later converts to the religion, and not actually of Hebrew descent.

edit on 18-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

Notice the repeated patterns, jmdewey? Same number, same unity, same thing happened.
And . . so?
God is not restricted by numbers as to what He can and can not to or when.
What does any of this have to do with your theory of Jesus paying for sins, other than to distract from the question?



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Thats not what you said here:

"It was invented in 1800 by John Nelson Darby to discredit Christianity and to promote zionism and the land grab in Palestine by the Jews."

You accuse the "Jews" of stealing land in Palestine when the real culprits are political zealot Zionists. From the context of your words, you equate Jews with Zionists.

Khazarian or not, that is God's knowledge alone. It is not for you to decide who is Hebrew or not. We dont know how many Hebrews exist among the Khazarians.

Just because the media portays Dispensationalists as Zionists doesnt make it so. In no way does dispensational theology justify Zionism.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 12:37 AM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

To blindly assume a Jew is a Zionist is racism.
I never said anything like that.
Most Jews are not Hebrews but descendants of the Khazars who converted to the Jewish religion.
The people who created and now populate what they call Israel are Polish Ashkenazi Jews originally from Khazaria.

You may not be a zionist as a result of being a Dispensationalist, but a lot of them are, meaning they support Israel.

A carefull Dispensationalist realizes that Jesus will regather Israel at His return
A normal Christian realizes that already happened, they became Christians, and why most Jews today are later converts to the religion, and not actually of Hebrew descent.

edit on 18-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Wrong again... my Sephardi and Moroccan ancestors were definitely NOT Khazar, and if you think it may be SOME Ashkenazi who are, again, you can't prove it at all.

Wrong yet again, there are Jews in Israel from Ethiopia and Burma.

And guess what JmDewey, if your ancestors were from Europe, you just might have Jewish ancestry, because guess what...there were First Century Jews in Cologne, Germany.

And YES, I am of Hebrew descent through my mother's line, T2b of Aram, or as the Bible says Aramea. My ancestresses spoke Aramaic, my mother was a wandering Aramean. Got it? Now tell me another one, how I'm not Hebrew when you don't know the origins of the Hebrew people to begin with.

You are wrong on so many levels, and all you know is from conspiracy theories. Zionism as a political movement does not change the fact that Mt. Zion is in Israel and Mt. Zion is mentioned throughout the Bible. While there may be some HASIDIC Jews who are politically motivated, to want to go back to Israel should never be denied to anyone who has the right of return.

I don't think you even know the history of why Palestine is called Palestine or why the Palestinians are Muslim. Have you ever asked yourself that? Why are they Muslim? Because of the Islamic invasion of the 7th century, and even then, they knew Jews were in Israel, it's in their writings. You can thank Hadrian for why it is called Palestine, which was the Latinized for Philistines.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 12:42 AM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy
 

Notice the repeated patterns, jmdewey? Same number, same unity, same thing happened.
And . . so?
God is not restricted by numbers as to what He can and can not to or when.
What does any of this have to do with your theory of Jesus paying for sins, other than to distract from the question?



It's because you apparently haven't noticed from the Bible that God chooses to work in patterns. It's there throughout the Bible. Do you even believe in the Bible to begin with?

This stuff you are espousing, do you really think Jesus was a Greek Christian? That's the big issue here, what was Jesus? Did Christianity come before or after Jesus? If it came before then you are going to have to find your methods of salvation through Greek mythology.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 06:49 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

. . .does not change the fact that Mt. Zion is in Israel . . .
In the New Testament, Mt. Zion is in Heaven.
Hebrews 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
(2011 NIV)

I think that it is really creepy that now that you have discovered that you have Jewish ancestors that you are all of a sudden a big devotee of extolling the virtues of being Jewish.
That is not Christian but human pride.
Paul, a hellenized Jewish Christian, said that there is no longer Jew or gentile.
If you think that Paul is too "Greekified", then might I suggest your converting to Judaism.
edit on 19-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 06:57 AM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

You accuse the "Jews" of stealing land in Palestine when the real culprits are political zealot Zionists.
Who just happen to be Jews.

Just because the media portrays Dispensationalists as Zionists doesn't make it so. In no way does dispensational theology justify Zionism.
You seem to be doing a pretty good job of defending Israel.
If in no other way than reinforcing their claim to Hebrewness.


edit on 19-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

You accuse the "Jews" of stealing land in Palestine when the real culprits are political zealot Zionists.
Who just happen to be Jews.

Just because the media portrays Dispensationalists as Zionists doesn't make it so. In no way does dispensational theology justify Zionism.
You seem to be doing a pretty good job of defending Israel.
If in no other way than reinforcing their claim to Hebrewness.


edit on 19-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Again, do you even know the origins of the Hebrews?

Quickly we shall go over the patriarchs to prove that Hebrews weren't just dropped out of the sky and Hebrews have always been a mixed ethnicity.

Adam: Since no one really knows where Adam is from other than Eden and that has not been pointed out on any map and every ancient culture believed there was one first man, we shouldn't assume they said he was from anywhere other than perhaps a little around the Arabian Sea into Mesopotamia. But the Bible says the Garden was Eastward in Eden. So wherever Eden was, the Garden was Eastward.

Cain: Went East into the land of Nod. If it is Mesopotamia, then he went East. But guess what is East of Mesopotamia? The Indus Valley and Harappa. And what is in Harappa? The foundations of Hindu culture, but the Rig Vedas that have the same creation story and believe in one God, the Ultimate, they called Brahma.

Abel: It doesn't say he had children but we could assume he had a wife, because Cain had a wife.

Seth: This is the line Jesus came from, but apparently these went to live in the mountains, perhaps?

Now we have two brothers that are family lines. God sends a flood, wipes out everybody except for Noah, whom we assume was from Seth, however, we don't know what line Noah's wife and daughters-in-law were from. Were they from Cain, were they from Seth? Were they mixed? We don't know.

Now then, Shem, Ham and Japheth.

Shem became the Canaanites, Middle Eastern and Central Asians, maybe Greeks, perhaps Italians, Ham became Africans and Arabians, Japheth became European, Russian and Asian.

Moving forward, Abraham was born in Ur of the Chaldees, we know his father was from Shem, but no where does it say where his mother was from. But they lived in Harappa. Unless you know the history of the Indus Valley, don't assume it is all subcontinent India. There are some historical references, assuming though, but Josephus, Plato and Herodotus suggest Abraham was from what was considered India at that time, meaning the Indus Valley.

OK, Abraham left the Indus Valley (which was considered North India, Pakistan, parts of Afghanistan, Southern Iran and Southern Iraq) and went across that region to the Levant, which included the Canaanites, Hittites, Arameans, Jebusites, Phoenicians, Jordanians, Lebanon and so forth. But Sarah's relatives were settled in Haran, because that's where Isaac's wife Rebecca was from.

While Abraham's journey took him across Southwest Asia and Central Asia, that became Persia later, now the story of the flood is called The Epic Of Gilgamesh before it reaches the Levant. But the Levant had gods also, absorbed from the Hittites, which were Turkic, we call it Turkey today, but the Turkic people also bordered what became Assyria. BTW, the Assyrians also had Zoroastrianism which was monotheistic as well. Ahura Mazda of Zarathustra is the god of Zoroastrianism, so the belief in the one God is now spread from the Indus Valley through Persia and about to hit the Levant.

Abraham has a baby with Hagar, an Egyptian, and this child is Ishmael, half whatever Abraham was, which was not Hebrew yet, and Egyptian. Then he has a baby named Isaac, and it is about this time when the Hebrews were becoming a people and yet still mixed as Ezekiel says "thy birth and thy nativity is Canaanite and Hittite". This is in the Torah if you care to look, but since you don't think Torah and Old Testament could possibly be the same, then go read commentaries.

The beginning of the Hebrews were mixed. Abraham and Jacob were both called "Wandering Arameans". "My father was a wandering Aramean". Then Isaac had a baby with Rebecca, who was from Haran. Esau had babies with the Hittite (Turkic) women, and Jacob had babies with Leah and Rachel, who were also from Haran, but we don't know where Bilhah and Zilpha were from. The 12 tribes that became Israel were from these four women.

Joseph was married to an Egyptian woman, so Manasseh and Ephraim were half whatever Joseph was and Egyptian. Jesus came through Leah, then through Thamar, but it doesn't end there. Now the Hebrews are becoming a quasi-religion. Levi was the line Moses was from. Moses was born in Egypt, but Hebrew as the Egyptians called them. Because by that time, they already were the 12 tribes that shared a religion different than Egyptian and their neighbors. So Hebrews were more than just a race by that time, but they were an ethnicity because the definition of ethnicity really only means a group that has a shared culture, language and religion. That's all it means.

Moving forward, now this group of mixed ancestry has a shared culture, shared religion and shared language. Jesus was born of mixed ancestry. This is accepted. The word Jew comes from Judea, the southern kingdom, of which Judah, Levi and Benjamin survived. But that leaves the other tribes out there. Israel and Judah were split. But an Israelite can be Israelite even if they aren't Jewish and one can be Hebrew and not Jewish. Do you see how you mistakenly believe Hebrew and Jewish are the same thing?

You don't know where the lost tribes went or how they assimilated into other cultures, and until you can prove it (but you will try because British Israelism always tries to prove something), you don't know. So you might be of the tribe of Reuben, you don't know. And you can't prove you aren't.

But the Levites and Benjamites managed to hold on to the shared culture, religion and tradition. And most Jews that you think of as Jews, hence the Ashkenazi, are descended from Levi. But the tribe of Manasseh has been found, still holding to Judaism that is reflective of pre-Rabbinical Judaism of the Middle Ages. They were found in Burma. Yes, there are Burmese Jews who were not converted, but maintained Jewish identity from before the Middle Ages. They are Jews and recognized as Jews, even though they were from Manasseh.

God knows who comes from what and you can't prove you aren't of any tribe because you might very well be.



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