Social programming + the collapse of religion and values.

Krazysh0t
If the people involved get enjoyment out of injuring themselves or others in the course of sex, who are YOU to say that it is wrong? Pain is your body's way of letting you know you are alive. These people have taken this concept and get off on it.

Perversion is a craving for life. What I am saying is that people should have life, not a perverse substitute. Sometimes people indulge in food to satisfy emotional craving. Isn't it better for such people to realise what is wrong and try to fix it instead of giving them some shallow maxim such as; 'if it feels good do it' ?

Krazysh0tArt is an expression of someone's inner thoughts and/or emotions. If you don't understand this or don't believe it, you are looking at the wrong art or you fail to understand the art that you look at. Whatever you said doesn't make any sense.

I'm an artist. Artists don't paint to express themselves. Art does, incidentally, express the artist's particular mindset but that's not why artists paint. Art is a creative life-giving, joyful experience. Art that is reduced to expression is mere journalism. Expressing oneself and 'celebrating' one's sexuality or whatever, is just silly talk such as you would hear on CNN.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by EnPassant

 

It begs the question; does mere consent make a thing right or good? Sado-masochism is perverse and consent does not make it right.

In this context yes it makes it right. If it brings sexual fulfillment to their relationship then I would say it's good. You saying sadomasochism is perverse doesn't make it so. All that says is that it's perverse to you. If couples want to be really kinky then all power to them as far as I am concerned.

What you call 'kinky' and what I call sado-masochism may not be the same thing. I am talking about playing out evil against another person; violence, sadism. Some people do 'kinky' games. I don't know about that...but what I am talking about is much darker and violent and it exists a lot in the gay community.

EnPassant

Krazysh0tArt is an expression of someone's inner thoughts and/or emotions. If you don't understand this or don't believe it, you are looking at the wrong art or you fail to understand the art that you look at. Whatever you said doesn't make any sense.

I'm an artist. Artists don't paint to express themselves. Art does, incidentally, express the artist's particular mindset but that's not why artists paint. Art is a creative life-giving, joyful experience. Art that is reduced to expression is mere journalism. Expressing oneself and 'celebrating' one's sexuality or whatever, is just silly talk such as you would hear on CNN.

Self-expression is therapeutic. Go ahead, argue with that one.

EnPassant

Krazysh0t
If the people involved get enjoyment out of injuring themselves or others in the course of sex, who are YOU to say that it is wrong? Pain is your body's way of letting you know you are alive. These people have taken this concept and get off on it.

Perversion is a craving for life. What I am saying is that people should have life, not a perverse substitute. Sometimes people indulge in food to satisfy emotional craving. Isn't it better for such people to realise what is wrong and try to fix it instead of giving them some shallow maxim such as; 'if it feels good do it' ?

Perversion is just a meaningless label that humans attach to things that they don't like to try to convince others of their world view.

reply to post by EnPassant

What you call 'kinky' and what I call sado-masochism may not be the same thing. I am talking about playing out evil against another person; violence, sadism.

I am talking about this.
"...Similarly, sexual sadism within the context of mutual consent should not be mistaken for acts of sexual violence or aggression."

but what I am talking about is much darker and violent and it exists a lot in the gay community.

Again. How do you know this? How do you know what hundreds of millions of people do behind closed doors??

EnPassant

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by EnPassant

 

It begs the question; does mere consent make a thing right or good? Sado-masochism is perverse and consent does not make it right.

In this context yes it makes it right. If it brings sexual fulfillment to their relationship then I would say it's good. You saying sadomasochism is perverse doesn't make it so. All that says is that it's perverse to you. If couples want to be really kinky then all power to them as far as I am concerned.

What you call 'kinky' and what I call sado-masochism may not be the same thing. I am talking about playing out evil against another person; violence, sadism. Some people do 'kinky' games. I don't know about that...but what I am talking about is much darker and violent and it exists a lot in the gay community.

For someone who is straight (I'm assuming), you sure do claim to know a lot about what gay people do.

EnPassant

What you call 'kinky' and what I call sado-masochism may not be the same thing. I am talking about playing out evil against another person; violence, sadism. Some people do 'kinky' games. I don't know about that...but what I am talking about is much darker and violent and it exists a lot in the gay community.

Exactly. You don't know about that. Yet speak endlessly about something you don't know about as if you are some expert about it. Your arrogance and desire for authority over others is classic.

Where I'm from people who speak about things they know nothing about with an unfounded sense of authority are known to fit the term, "Full of sh!t!!!" You sir, have proven yourself to be "Full of sh!t".

AfterInfinity

EnPassant

Krazysh0tArt is an expression of someone's inner thoughts and/or emotions. If you don't understand this or don't believe it, you are looking at the wrong art or you fail to understand the art that you look at. Whatever you said doesn't make any sense.

I'm an artist. Artists don't paint to express themselves. Art does, incidentally, express the artist's particular mindset but that's not why artists paint. Art is a creative life-giving, joyful experience. Art that is reduced to expression is mere journalism. Expressing oneself and 'celebrating' one's sexuality or whatever, is just silly talk such as you would hear on CNN.

Self-expression is therapeutic. Go ahead, argue with that one.

Creativity is therapeutic. It is really a question of semantics at this point.

perversion
[MASS NOUN]
1 distortion or corruption of the original course, meaning, or state of something:

[COUNT NOUN]:
2 sexual behaviour that is considered abnormal and unacceptable:

So perversion in regards to sex is socially decided and changes over time, cultures and belief. What is a perversion to one is not necessarily true for another.

Deuteronomy 16:19
Do not pervert justice or show partiality. Do not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the innocent.

Does that not land every politician straight in trouble - lobbying?

But back on topic

The masses tendency to blindly accept whatever gets defined as ''progressive'' points to extremely efficient social programming methods in place. If the collapse of religion and age-old traditional values did not occur by accident, then it would have had to have been achieved by mysterious forces working behind the scenes to program the masses into accepting strange new ideas. If so, then who or what is it? And what do they stand to gain from rewriting social norms and diminishing religion? Could it all be a decoy to take attention away from somthing far more sinister? There is definitely a conspiracy in all of this. Discuss in your own words and keep it civil.

So the premise is "There is definitely a conspiracy in all of this" rather than accepting that it just happened.


How did it happen? The MSM

My question is who or what transformed a once conservative culture into accepting ideas and values which were the exact opposite of what was upheld for so long? The MSM

Exactly who decided that the word ''progressiveness'' has to mean accepting ideas and practices that were once seen as abhorrent?
progressive - it doesn't you are making a logical leap here using the word 'abhorrent'

ADJECTIVE
1 happening or developing gradually or in stages:

These changes have been progressive as they happened gradually and in stages whether you believe them to be abhorrent or not is a moot point.

If so, then who or what is it? - Well if you are religious you can blame the devil and if not then those elite few who run the planet through there mega corporations are the only people capable of it.

And what do they stand to gain from rewriting social norms and diminishing religion? They stand to gain nothing as they have everything material they could want already so can only be for fun surely.

Could it all be a decoy to take attention away from somthing far more sinister? I doubt it, what is more sinister than the destruction of the fabric of society and the dehumanisation of people across the planet.

There is definitely a conspiracy in all of this. - Why are you so sure ?

What i would point out is that behaviour that would have got you jailed a decade or two ago is now common TV viewing throughout the day. Pop videos these days would have carried an '18' or 'x' certificate not so long ago.

The real question i feel is 'Are we happy with the way our societies are heading based on the values we hold' or do we need to change direction?

EnPassant

AfterInfinity

EnPassant

Krazysh0tArt is an expression of someone's inner thoughts and/or emotions. If you don't understand this or don't believe it, you are looking at the wrong art or you fail to understand the art that you look at. Whatever you said doesn't make any sense.

I'm an artist. Artists don't paint to express themselves. Art does, incidentally, express the artist's particular mindset but that's not why artists paint. Art is a creative life-giving, joyful experience. Art that is reduced to expression is mere journalism. Expressing oneself and 'celebrating' one's sexuality or whatever, is just silly talk such as you would hear on CNN.

Self-expression is therapeutic. Go ahead, argue with that one.

Creativity is therapeutic. It is really a question of semantics at this point.

I don't get what your point is. You're coming up with a lot of flimsy excuses to justify your opinion. Everything you can imagine happening in the gay community is also happening in the straight community. Sounds like someone is just jealous.

sk0rpi0n
You see them that way because thats what you have been programmed to think. You cannot do anything beyond insulting those who think certain things are wrong...because thats exactly what you have been programmed to believe. After all, the media can only successfully program those driven by lower instincts, as opposed to a higher sense of self. Your words are a living testimony to my points in the OP. I simply cannot blame you... I also cannot waste time on those who are convinced that ''reality'' is only defined by what their eyes see.

You have now demonstrated perfectly how and why people dehumanize others. You hate Homosexuals so you dehumanize them, removing in your mind their status into subhuman. You can now abuse them without any remorse or moral accountability. Included with them you have also added anyone who thinks different than you because as you put it, they "are driven by lower instincts" as opposed to you with your "higher sense of self." You are the same and think the same as all genocidal maniacs throughout history. All the while claiming Moral superiority over others and using arguments ripe with double standards.

I wonder, do you remember writing this???

Evil is that which one would not want done to himself and his loved ones.

In another thread that quote was given by you as the definition of Evil. That is exactly what you are doing to others and so by your very own words personify exactly what you define as "Evil". Very interesting indeed. I'm sure Denial is right around the corner as well.

Krazysh0t

EnPassant

Krazysh0t
If the people involved get enjoyment out of injuring themselves or others in the course of sex, who are YOU to say that it is wrong? Pain is your body's way of letting you know you are alive. These people have taken this concept and get off on it.

Perversion is a craving for life. What I am saying is that people should have life, not a perverse substitute. Sometimes people indulge in food to satisfy emotional craving. Isn't it better for such people to realise what is wrong and try to fix it instead of giving them some shallow maxim such as; 'if it feels good do it' ?

Perversion is just a meaningless label that humans attach to things that they don't like to try to convince others of their world view.

To argue this way is to argue that there are no values. Perversion exists on all levels of society. For example, justice is often turned into vengeance, a vengeance that has its roots in fear of evil or in evil. If the good exists perversions of it can exist. That is the question. If there are no perversions there are no true values. If there are true values there can be perversions. Do you value your life? If you value your life and someone else doesn't do you think they are wrong?

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by EnPassant

 

What you call 'kinky' and what I call sado-masochism may not be the same thing. I am talking about playing out evil against another person; violence, sadism.

I am talking about this.
"...Similarly, sexual sadism within the context of mutual consent should not be mistaken for acts of sexual violence or aggression."

but what I am talking about is much darker and violent and it exists a lot in the gay community.

Again. How do you know this? How do you know what hundreds of millions of people do behind closed doors??

Human creativity is a real value. That is why many people visit this forum; writing is creative. Destruction is the opposite to creativity. S+M is a game; it is acting out destructive emotions. But a game can become real. This is the danger. This is the danger between what you call 'kinky' and what games can and do lead to. When this happens it becomes destructive of creative love.

EnPassant

Krazysh0t

EnPassant

Krazysh0t
If the people involved get enjoyment out of injuring themselves or others in the course of sex, who are YOU to say that it is wrong? Pain is your body's way of letting you know you are alive. These people have taken this concept and get off on it.

Perversion is a craving for life. What I am saying is that people should have life, not a perverse substitute. Sometimes people indulge in food to satisfy emotional craving. Isn't it better for such people to realise what is wrong and try to fix it instead of giving them some shallow maxim such as; 'if it feels good do it' ?

Perversion is just a meaningless label that humans attach to things that they don't like to try to convince others of their world view.

To argue this way is to argue that there are no values. Perversion exists on all levels of society. For example, justice is often turned into vengeance, a vengeance that has its roots in fear of evil or in evil. If the good exists perversions of it can exist. That is the question. If there are no perversions there are no true values. If there are true values there can be perversions. Do you value your life? If you value your life and someone else doesn't do you think they are wrong?

So you're saying all these animals are exhibiting a perversion of nature's laws as well? It's so wrong for us to do it, but no one talks about the dolphins acting gay.

"Round up the dolphins and make them listen to Justin Bieber! If it looks like it's in pain, then release it. Shoot any that order chai lattes! We gotta stay on top of this - we don't want our children to catch the gay virus!"

Grimpachi

sk0rpi0n
___________ My question is who or what transformed a once conservative culture into accepting ideas and values which were the exact opposite of what was upheld for so long?

I am not sure what time period you are referring to. 40s, 50, or maybe the 1800s but it seems you are referring to an age when discrimination was not only rampant but also expected and excepted. It was hardly a golden age for all. Children knew things were not right but adults had become blind, numb, and complacent to the order of things. That was part of the conservative culture as well.

I am certain this countries forefathers knew there were many hurdles to overcome before everyone could enjoy their inalienable rights and we are still moving towards those goals.

If the collapse of religion and age-old traditional values did not occur by accident, then it would have had to have been achieved by mysterious forces working behind the scenes to program the masses into accepting strange new ideas.

You are right it didn't happen by accident. People have endured hardships some have lost their lives in the fight for equality. There are no mysterious forces at work here unless you consider the inner wisdom even a child knows at a very young age that we are all human equal in value and that causing others pain is wrong as being mysterious.

These are not strange nor are they new ideas and the forces at work have been visible and outspoken. What Ido find strange is that many seem to think oppression, bigotry, and descrimination are somehow admirable traits which defined an era and party.

edit on 13-2-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

No mysterious forces there. And I'm not bashing anybody when I say Christians have been confused about who they are and what they stand for from the very beginning. For instance, how is a Christian to know if he should love his neighbors as himself or if he should go next door and burn those suckers to the ground ~ just one of the many contradictions of the bible that merging old and new testaments has forced them to work around. And if you'll check history, the latter seems to have been the order of the day right from the get go. I won't go into the Crusades .....

But consider the UnCivil War. The government had the constitutional authority to brand slavery illegal and declare that any who failed to release their slaves would be legally evicted through eminent domain with their land being distributed to the former slaves, in compensation for "services rendered". Bing, bang, boom, no blood and guts.

But no, union officialdom, union preachers and union newspapers all demanded a bloody war, so over six hundred thousand good union Christian kids and good confederate Christian kids ended up killing each other and tearing up the countryside. For what? The former slaves who had also been christianized by force weren't all that much better off at the end of it. And next Sunday everybody got all gussied up for church services to praise god.

If that fails to impress, think for a moment about the Branch Davidians. Christians, yes ~ but considered by other Christians to be very weird in their beliefs. So what was that 70% of self declared Christianity saying during the run-up to that holocaust? Well gee, "there's just no choice than to march on over there and burn those suckers to the ground." At least that's what government and the media said they were saying and no "good Christian" stood up to refute them. topdocumentaryfilms.com...

Same thing going on now. Officials, judges, preachers and newspapers. You VILL believe.

AfterInfinity

EnPassant

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by EnPassant

 

It begs the question; does mere consent make a thing right or good? Sado-masochism is perverse and consent does not make it right.

In this context yes it makes it right. If it brings sexual fulfillment to their relationship then I would say it's good. You saying sadomasochism is perverse doesn't make it so. All that says is that it's perverse to you. If couples want to be really kinky then all power to them as far as I am concerned.

What you call 'kinky' and what I call sado-masochism may not be the same thing. I am talking about playing out evil against another person; violence, sadism. Some people do 'kinky' games. I don't know about that...but what I am talking about is much darker and violent and it exists a lot in the gay community.

For someone who is straight (I'm assuming), you sure do claim to know a lot about what gay people do.

I'm straight. I have researched this because it has come up on forums before. I also have gay friends and I know what their jokes really mean. They talk about stuff. But there is 'kinky' and there is perverse. And there is darkness.

EnPassant

AfterInfinity

EnPassant

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by EnPassant

 

It begs the question; does mere consent make a thing right or good? Sado-masochism is perverse and consent does not make it right.

In this context yes it makes it right. If it brings sexual fulfillment to their relationship then I would say it's good. You saying sadomasochism is perverse doesn't make it so. All that says is that it's perverse to you. If couples want to be really kinky then all power to them as far as I am concerned.

What you call 'kinky' and what I call sado-masochism may not be the same thing. I am talking about playing out evil against another person; violence, sadism. Some people do 'kinky' games. I don't know about that...but what I am talking about is much darker and violent and it exists a lot in the gay community.

For someone who is straight (I'm assuming), you sure do claim to know a lot about what gay people do.

I'm straight. I have researched this because it has come up on forums before. I also have gay friends and I know what their jokes really mean. They talk about stuff. But there is 'kinky' and there is perverse. And there is darkness.

Have you ever considered the possibility that your friends are not a measuring stick by which to judge all of the homosexual community? I have a few friends who tend on the kinky side of things, but that doesn't mean everyone who shares their hair color or taste in music is as kinky as them. If you have a problem with how your friends do things, talk to them about it...or just stop having those conversations with them. Seriously, it kind of weirds me out that you would even find yourself that compelled by the topic. Their sex lives aren't cause for a public movement.

AfterInfinity

EnPassant

Krazysh0t

EnPassant

Krazysh0t
If the people involved get enjoyment out of injuring themselves or others in the course of sex, who are YOU to say that it is wrong? Pain is your body's way of letting you know you are alive. These people have taken this concept and get off on it.

Perversion is a craving for life. What I am saying is that people should have life, not a perverse substitute. Sometimes people indulge in food to satisfy emotional craving. Isn't it better for such people to realise what is wrong and try to fix it instead of giving them some shallow maxim such as; 'if it feels good do it' ?

Perversion is just a meaningless label that humans attach to things that they don't like to try to convince others of their world view.

To argue this way is to argue that there are no values. Perversion exists on all levels of society. For example, justice is often turned into vengeance, a vengeance that has its roots in fear of evil or in evil. If the good exists perversions of it can exist. That is the question. If there are no perversions there are no true values. If there are true values there can be perversions. Do you value your life? If you value your life and someone else doesn't do you think they are wrong?

So you're saying all these animals are exhibiting a perversion of nature's laws as well? It's so wrong for us to do it, but no one talks about the dolphins acting gay.

"Round up the dolphins and make them listen to Justin Bieber! If it looks like it's in pain, then release it. Shoot any that order chai lattes! We gotta stay on top of this - we don't want our children to catch the gay virus!"

edit on 14-2-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I'm not anti gay in the way you seem to think. I am saying that there is a culture of sado-masochism in the gay world.

reply to post by EnPassant

I'm not anti gay in the way you seem to think. I am saying that there is a culture of sado-masochism in the gay world.

That's not a homosexual thing, dude. Seriously. That's just an animal thing. And yes, the human species is classified as animal. Clawing, biting, whips, chains, etc. It's all about unleashing the beast. Inducing chemical reactions and all that good stuff. Excitement, adrenaline, raw emotion and physical release. Again, I think you're jealous.