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Social programming + the collapse of religion and values.

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posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by Year1
 


No wonder people are leaving religion in droves with nonsense like that.




posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 05:26 AM
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reply to post by Year1
 


One, continue believing that your Creator is evil by holding the endlessly repeated excuse "the grave moral atrocities therein"

I assumed you understood when I said 'fictional account' I didn't believe. Allow me to be more clear. I don't think the Bible is the word of god. I'm an anti theist. So no, I don't hold resentment towards Yahweh since I don't believe he exists to begin with.


Is the lie more appealing to you, or the truth of the matter?

We have a different criteria for truth. My version requires evidence.



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 05:31 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


Hooray another anti theist

A Humanist also I think.
I do think God is about but I will not have the gall to try and understand her nor will I preach telling others that my God is the right one like all religious people do.
Religion is just another way to divide us all.



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 07:22 AM
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@ Lucid Lunacy
..;getting to the heart of it.

Belief in gender equality and equality among the orientations is not something people genuinely believe.

This is your thesis, yes?

The vast majority of people the world over from all religions, and from all socio-economic backgrounds... consider homosexuality to be as unnatural as bestiality. It only seems ''acceptable'' to you because the media in your society constantly portrays it as ''acceptable''... and silences and riducules the voices opposing it. The rest of the world disagrees. Do you consider them as ''equal'' to you , when it comes to thinking for themselves? If not, why? Why is their outlook on homosexuality lesser than yours? What happens to ''equality''?



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 07:29 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Because they are backward uneducated idiots.
They can think that and that is their right but in the modern world and modern society equality means the same rights for all be it man/woman age race and sexuality and to actually oppress people because of their sexuality is not equal at all.
Don't like it? move to a backward theist run country and leave the rest of us to get on with the more important stuff.
Also anyone see that study with the homophobic men? they were played some homosexual imagery and the non homophobic people didn't get turned on but the homophobic ones did lol.
So If any of you are homophobic just let your self be free and be who god made you to be...gay, you will be much happier in the long run.



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 07:38 AM
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sk0rpi0n

@ Lucid Lunacy
..;getting to the heart of it.

Belief in gender equality and equality among the orientations is not something people genuinely believe.

This is your thesis, yes?

The vast majority of people the world over from all religions, and from all socio-economic backgrounds... consider homosexuality to be as unnatural as bestiality. It only seems ''acceptable'' to you because the media in your society constantly portrays it as ''acceptable''... and silences and riducules the voices opposing it. The rest of the world disagrees. Do you consider them as ''equal'' to you , when it comes to thinking for themselves? If not, why? Why is their outlook on homosexuality lesser than yours? What happens to ''equality''?


Argumentum ad populum

Just because the vast majority of people think one way doesn't make it correct or true. Why don't you try thinking for yourself instead of believing what everyone else believes? Try talking to actual homosexuals about how their desires arose and NOT listen to what heterosexuals tell other heterosexuals how those feelings arise.



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 07:53 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



It only seems ''acceptable'' to you because the media in your society constantly portrays it as ''acceptable''…

For someone concerned about manipulation you sure do a whole lot of thought policing yourself. You can shove that propaganda down my throat over and over and it won't alter why I actually do accept LGBT. You're welcome to challenge my fortitude.


Do you consider them as ''equal'' to you , when it comes to thinking for themselves? If not, why? Why is their outlook on homosexuality lesser than yours? What happens to ''equality''?

I believe they should have the freedom to express their views. Equality doesn't mean everyone has equally good thoughts and beliefs. You're extending the idea erroneously. As for why I think it's lesser. Simple. There isn't a strong argument, outside of unverfied religious beliefs, as to why they don't deserve equal treatment. There are good arguments for why they do. Want me to view your outlook better then present a better argument. Stating lots of other people agree is a terrible one. Lots of people used to agree here in the States women shouldn't be afforded the right to vote. Now we understand that it was an immoral position despite the fact it was a widely held belief.
edit on 14-2-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 07:54 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



sk0rpi0n
I'm not American, but from what I've gathered, the US was once a rather religious and conservative society...in which the Christian religion played a major role in society without even holding absolute political power.


And then we learned to have some consideration for other people's points of views instead of trying to force only Christian views on society. This is what The Constitution promised - freedom of expression and religion.


sk0rpi0n
Marriages were taken seriously and were defined as being between man and woman only.


And then we learned that by making 'marriage' only between a man and a women, we are saying that Christianity should be in control of the government rather than it being non-religious to be fair of other people's religious views.


sk0rpi0n
Promiscuity was generally frowned upon, not glorified as an ideal.


You still have the right to "frown upon" it if you wish. People in America have the right to their own opinions.


sk0rpi0n
Prayer was in schools


Which is illegal since it goes against freedom of religion. People were forced to worship The God of Moses and Jesus Christ.


sk0rpi0n
and the mocking of religious figures was not hailed as ''free speech''.


Then it isn't "free" speech. It's "limited speech". In America, free-speech means you can say whatever you want as long as it isn't about planning to do something illegal.


sk0rpi0n
How did it happen?


People learned to respect other people's points of view (religious freedom and freedom of speech) more and more.



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 07:57 AM
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@Krazysh0t... Argumentum_ad_populum
The minority view isn't always correct.



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


So you want people to start hating because it’s fashionable in some parts of the world?

If so I can't be arsed



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 08:04 AM
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sk0rpi0n

@Krazysh0t... Argumentum_ad_populum
The minority view isn't always correct.


Fail. I never suggested that the minority view was correct. I SAID that you shouldn't listen to an argument because it is the most popular. I then SAID that you should do your own research to come to a view. Opinion isn't a popularity contest, and should never be formed based on majority or minority views.
edit on 14-2-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 08:16 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



and the mocking of religious figures was not hailed as ''free speech''.


The words ''gay'' and ''fag'' offend me because they are always used in a negative sense. ''That's so ****ing gay'' ''fag bar''. I was raised by two mothers, so it hurts me because it hurts them. But I live around that language everyday. Why should you be any different? If you're going to censor free speech, do it on everyone's behalf.



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 08:22 AM
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@ Krazysh0t... I never suggested that the minority view was correct.
It isn't. which is why the minority that believes homosexuality is acceptable aren't automatically correct. So atheists and homosexuals cannot dismiss the majority view by citing ''argumentum ad populum''. Try a different approach.



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 08:27 AM
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sk0rpi0n

@ Krazysh0t... I never suggested that the minority view was correct.
It isn't. which is why the minority that believes homosexuality is acceptable aren't automatically correct. So atheists and homosexuals cannot dismiss the majority view by citing ''argumentum ad populum''. Try a different approach.


Are you purposely misunderstanding what I'm typing or something? I am telling YOU that YOUR approach is the logical fallacy. Then I am telling you to use that thing located between your ears to come to your own EDUCATED opinion. Your argument is the logical fallacy. REGARDLESS of its legitimacy (your argument isn't legitimate though, don't try to misunderstand this), it is STILL a logical fallacy.

I never used the word "minority" in my post. My argumentative approach was to suggest that you should go speak to actual homosexuals about where their desires came from instead of listening to heterosexuals. Where did I EVER suggest that you should listen to the minority view? Go study logical debate rules again.



So atheists and homosexuals cannot dismiss the majority view by citing ''argumentum ad populum''.


We can, because it is a logical fallacy. Simple logic 101.

Fallacy


A fallacy is an argument that uses poor reasoning. An argument can be fallacious whether or not its conclusion is true.[1][2] A fallacy can be either formal or informal. An error that stems from a poor logical form is sometimes called a formal fallacy or simply an invalid argument. An informal fallacy is an error in reasoning that does not originate in improper logical form.[3] Arguments committing informal fallacies may be formally valid, but still fallacious.[4]

Fallacies of presumption fail to prove the conclusion by assuming the conclusion in the proof. Fallacies of weak inference fail to prove the conclusion due to insufficient evidence. Fallacies of distraction fail to prove the conclusion due to irrelevant evidence, like emotion. Fallacies of ambiguity fail to prove the conclusion due to vagueness in words, phrases, or grammar.[5]

Some fallacies are committed intentionally (to manipulate or persuade by deception), others unintentionally due to carelessness or ignorance.

edit on 14-2-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 08:40 AM
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@boymonkey74...Because they are backward uneducated idiots.
You see them that way because thats what you have been programmed to think. You cannot do anything beyond insulting those who think certain things are wrong...because thats exactly what you have been programmed to believe. After all, the media can only successfully program those driven by lower instincts, as opposed to a higher sense of self. Your words are a living testimony to my points in the OP. I simply cannot blame you... I also cannot waste time on those who are convinced that ''reality'' is only defined by what their eyes see.



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 08:48 AM
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sk0rpi0n
because thats exactly what you have been programmed to believe. After all, the media can only successfully program those driven by lower instincts, as opposed to a higher sense of self.


Says the guy who says it is ok to discriminate against a group of people because of how they happen to enjoy sex and sexual contact all because the majority of people in the world also do it. Seriously, if you are subject to brainwashing, don't call others out on different brainwashing until you dispel your own.
edit on 14-2-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 09:18 AM
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Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by EnPassant
 


The line exists and the real question is where to draw it.

Consenting adults.


You are saying that people who draw lines should not speak out. You think it is not acceptable for me to warn that gays may be doing harm to themselves?

Where did I say you shouldn't speak your mind?


Moral values are no longer politically correct?

You suggested certain sexual activities were depraved but didn't present an argument as to why. How it reads to me is that you just don't like the idea of it. If you want to warn people of this alleged harm perhaps you can illustrate your point better.


Wholesome sex creates a wholesome person. Perverse sex perverts the person.

Describe what wholesome means in this context.

I just don't understand.

I see nothing immoral with granting consenting adults the freedom to express themselves sexually with each other how they desire to.
edit on 14-2-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)


What adults consent to is not a good standard. It begs the question; does mere consent make a thing right or good? Sado-masochism is perverse and consent does not make it right.

When I speak my mind you tell me I am telling people what to do. I don't care what people do. I am merely trying to hold up a standard for evaluation.

Certain sexual activities are patently unhealthy. Sado-masochism is violence against the most intimate part of a person's being. This is self evidently bad.

Wholesome is what gives life. Degenerate sex brings spiritual death.

People don't have sex to 'express'* themselves. Sex is creation. If it is perverse it will create a perverse self, a perverse mind.

*Even art is not primarily about expression. That's just a word that people throw about like 'celebrate'. I'm 'celebrating' my ... whatever. Nonsense. It is only incidental that art expresses the artist's character. Art is creation. A woman does not have a child to 'express' herself (that would be an insult to the child). Childbirth is creation, joy...

edit on 14-2-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 09:29 AM
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EnPassant
What adults consent to is not a good standard. It begs the question; does mere consent make a thing right or good? Sado-masochism is perverse and consent does not make it right.


Why not?


When I speak my mind you tell me I am telling people what to do. I don't care what people do. I am merely trying to hold up a standard for evaluation.

Certain sexual activities are patently unhealthy. Sado-masochism is violence against the most intimate part of a person's being. This is self evidently bad.


If the people involved get enjoyment out of injuring themselves or others in the course of sex, who are YOU to say that it is wrong? Pain is your body's way of letting you know you are alive. These people have taken this concept and get off on it.


Wholesome is what gives life. Degenerate sex brings spiritual death.

People don't have sex to 'express'* themselves. Sex is creation. If it is perverse it will create a perverse self, a perverse mind.


Religious babble. It means nothing to a non-believer.


*Even art is not primarily about expression. That's just a word that people throw about like 'celebrate'. I'm 'celebrating' my ... whatever. Nonsense. It is only incidental that art expresses the artist's character. Art is creation.


Art is an expression of someone's inner thoughts and/or emotions. If you don't understand this or don't believe it, you are looking at the wrong art or you fail to understand the art that you look at. Whatever you said doesn't make any sense.



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye”

Isn’t it a problem if the atheists are upholding the teaching of Jesus more than the Christians?

Isn’t it a problem if you feel you have to get atheist to hate so that they can be more religious?



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


It begs the question; does mere consent make a thing right or good? Sado-masochism is perverse and consent does not make it right.

In this context yes it makes it right. If it brings sexual fulfillment to their relationship then I would say it's good. You saying sadomasochism is perverse doesn't make it so. All that says is that it's perverse to you. If couples want to be really kinky then all power to them as far as I am concerned.



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