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Krazysh0t
If the people involved get enjoyment out of injuring themselves or others in the course of sex, who are YOU to say that it is wrong? Pain is your body's way of letting you know you are alive. These people have taken this concept and get off on it.
Krazysh0tArt is an expression of someone's inner thoughts and/or emotions. If you don't understand this or don't believe it, you are looking at the wrong art or you fail to understand the art that you look at. Whatever you said doesn't make any sense.
Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by EnPassant
It begs the question; does mere consent make a thing right or good? Sado-masochism is perverse and consent does not make it right.
In this context yes it makes it right. If it brings sexual fulfillment to their relationship then I would say it's good. You saying sadomasochism is perverse doesn't make it so. All that says is that it's perverse to you. If couples want to be really kinky then all power to them as far as I am concerned.
EnPassant
Krazysh0tArt is an expression of someone's inner thoughts and/or emotions. If you don't understand this or don't believe it, you are looking at the wrong art or you fail to understand the art that you look at. Whatever you said doesn't make any sense.
I'm an artist. Artists don't paint to express themselves. Art does, incidentally, express the artist's particular mindset but that's not why artists paint. Art is a creative life-giving, joyful experience. Art that is reduced to expression is mere journalism. Expressing oneself and 'celebrating' one's sexuality or whatever, is just silly talk such as you would hear on CNN.
EnPassant
Krazysh0t
If the people involved get enjoyment out of injuring themselves or others in the course of sex, who are YOU to say that it is wrong? Pain is your body's way of letting you know you are alive. These people have taken this concept and get off on it.
Perversion is a craving for life. What I am saying is that people should have life, not a perverse substitute. Sometimes people indulge in food to satisfy emotional craving. Isn't it better for such people to realise what is wrong and try to fix it instead of giving them some shallow maxim such as; 'if it feels good do it' ?
What you call 'kinky' and what I call sado-masochism may not be the same thing. I am talking about playing out evil against another person; violence, sadism.
but what I am talking about is much darker and violent and it exists a lot in the gay community.
EnPassant
Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by EnPassant
It begs the question; does mere consent make a thing right or good? Sado-masochism is perverse and consent does not make it right.
In this context yes it makes it right. If it brings sexual fulfillment to their relationship then I would say it's good. You saying sadomasochism is perverse doesn't make it so. All that says is that it's perverse to you. If couples want to be really kinky then all power to them as far as I am concerned.
What you call 'kinky' and what I call sado-masochism may not be the same thing. I am talking about playing out evil against another person; violence, sadism. Some people do 'kinky' games. I don't know about that...but what I am talking about is much darker and violent and it exists a lot in the gay community.
EnPassant
What you call 'kinky' and what I call sado-masochism may not be the same thing. I am talking about playing out evil against another person; violence, sadism. Some people do 'kinky' games. I don't know about that...but what I am talking about is much darker and violent and it exists a lot in the gay community.
AfterInfinity
EnPassant
Krazysh0tArt is an expression of someone's inner thoughts and/or emotions. If you don't understand this or don't believe it, you are looking at the wrong art or you fail to understand the art that you look at. Whatever you said doesn't make any sense.
I'm an artist. Artists don't paint to express themselves. Art does, incidentally, express the artist's particular mindset but that's not why artists paint. Art is a creative life-giving, joyful experience. Art that is reduced to expression is mere journalism. Expressing oneself and 'celebrating' one's sexuality or whatever, is just silly talk such as you would hear on CNN.
Self-expression is therapeutic. Go ahead, argue with that one.
perversion
[MASS NOUN]
1 distortion or corruption of the original course, meaning, or state of something:
[COUNT NOUN]:
2 sexual behaviour that is considered abnormal and unacceptable:
The masses tendency to blindly accept whatever gets defined as ''progressive'' points to extremely efficient social programming methods in place. If the collapse of religion and age-old traditional values did not occur by accident, then it would have had to have been achieved by mysterious forces working behind the scenes to program the masses into accepting strange new ideas. If so, then who or what is it? And what do they stand to gain from rewriting social norms and diminishing religion? Could it all be a decoy to take attention away from somthing far more sinister? There is definitely a conspiracy in all of this. Discuss in your own words and keep it civil.
EnPassant
AfterInfinity
EnPassant
Krazysh0tArt is an expression of someone's inner thoughts and/or emotions. If you don't understand this or don't believe it, you are looking at the wrong art or you fail to understand the art that you look at. Whatever you said doesn't make any sense.
I'm an artist. Artists don't paint to express themselves. Art does, incidentally, express the artist's particular mindset but that's not why artists paint. Art is a creative life-giving, joyful experience. Art that is reduced to expression is mere journalism. Expressing oneself and 'celebrating' one's sexuality or whatever, is just silly talk such as you would hear on CNN.
Self-expression is therapeutic. Go ahead, argue with that one.
Creativity is therapeutic. It is really a question of semantics at this point.
sk0rpi0n
You see them that way because thats what you have been programmed to think. You cannot do anything beyond insulting those who think certain things are wrong...because thats exactly what you have been programmed to believe. After all, the media can only successfully program those driven by lower instincts, as opposed to a higher sense of self. Your words are a living testimony to my points in the OP. I simply cannot blame you... I also cannot waste time on those who are convinced that ''reality'' is only defined by what their eyes see.
Evil is that which one would not want done to himself and his loved ones.
Krazysh0t
EnPassant
Krazysh0t
If the people involved get enjoyment out of injuring themselves or others in the course of sex, who are YOU to say that it is wrong? Pain is your body's way of letting you know you are alive. These people have taken this concept and get off on it.
Perversion is a craving for life. What I am saying is that people should have life, not a perverse substitute. Sometimes people indulge in food to satisfy emotional craving. Isn't it better for such people to realise what is wrong and try to fix it instead of giving them some shallow maxim such as; 'if it feels good do it' ?
Perversion is just a meaningless label that humans attach to things that they don't like to try to convince others of their world view.
Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by EnPassant
What you call 'kinky' and what I call sado-masochism may not be the same thing. I am talking about playing out evil against another person; violence, sadism.
I am talking about this.
"...Similarly, sexual sadism within the context of mutual consent should not be mistaken for acts of sexual violence or aggression."
but what I am talking about is much darker and violent and it exists a lot in the gay community.
Again. How do you know this? How do you know what hundreds of millions of people do behind closed doors??
EnPassant
Krazysh0t
EnPassant
Krazysh0t
If the people involved get enjoyment out of injuring themselves or others in the course of sex, who are YOU to say that it is wrong? Pain is your body's way of letting you know you are alive. These people have taken this concept and get off on it.
Perversion is a craving for life. What I am saying is that people should have life, not a perverse substitute. Sometimes people indulge in food to satisfy emotional craving. Isn't it better for such people to realise what is wrong and try to fix it instead of giving them some shallow maxim such as; 'if it feels good do it' ?
Perversion is just a meaningless label that humans attach to things that they don't like to try to convince others of their world view.
To argue this way is to argue that there are no values. Perversion exists on all levels of society. For example, justice is often turned into vengeance, a vengeance that has its roots in fear of evil or in evil. If the good exists perversions of it can exist. That is the question. If there are no perversions there are no true values. If there are true values there can be perversions. Do you value your life? If you value your life and someone else doesn't do you think they are wrong?
Grimpachi
sk0rpi0n
___________ My question is who or what transformed a once conservative culture into accepting ideas and values which were the exact opposite of what was upheld for so long?
I am not sure what time period you are referring to. 40s, 50, or maybe the 1800s but it seems you are referring to an age when discrimination was not only rampant but also expected and excepted. It was hardly a golden age for all. Children knew things were not right but adults had become blind, numb, and complacent to the order of things. That was part of the conservative culture as well.
I am certain this countries forefathers knew there were many hurdles to overcome before everyone could enjoy their inalienable rights and we are still moving towards those goals.
If the collapse of religion and age-old traditional values did not occur by accident, then it would have had to have been achieved by mysterious forces working behind the scenes to program the masses into accepting strange new ideas.
You are right it didn't happen by accident. People have endured hardships some have lost their lives in the fight for equality. There are no mysterious forces at work here unless you consider the inner wisdom even a child knows at a very young age that we are all human equal in value and that causing others pain is wrong as being mysterious.
These are not strange nor are they new ideas and the forces at work have been visible and outspoken. What Ido find strange is that many seem to think oppression, bigotry, and descrimination are somehow admirable traits which defined an era and party.edit on 13-2-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)
AfterInfinity
EnPassant
Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by EnPassant
It begs the question; does mere consent make a thing right or good? Sado-masochism is perverse and consent does not make it right.
In this context yes it makes it right. If it brings sexual fulfillment to their relationship then I would say it's good. You saying sadomasochism is perverse doesn't make it so. All that says is that it's perverse to you. If couples want to be really kinky then all power to them as far as I am concerned.
What you call 'kinky' and what I call sado-masochism may not be the same thing. I am talking about playing out evil against another person; violence, sadism. Some people do 'kinky' games. I don't know about that...but what I am talking about is much darker and violent and it exists a lot in the gay community.
For someone who is straight (I'm assuming), you sure do claim to know a lot about what gay people do.
EnPassant
AfterInfinity
EnPassant
Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by EnPassant
It begs the question; does mere consent make a thing right or good? Sado-masochism is perverse and consent does not make it right.
In this context yes it makes it right. If it brings sexual fulfillment to their relationship then I would say it's good. You saying sadomasochism is perverse doesn't make it so. All that says is that it's perverse to you. If couples want to be really kinky then all power to them as far as I am concerned.
What you call 'kinky' and what I call sado-masochism may not be the same thing. I am talking about playing out evil against another person; violence, sadism. Some people do 'kinky' games. I don't know about that...but what I am talking about is much darker and violent and it exists a lot in the gay community.
For someone who is straight (I'm assuming), you sure do claim to know a lot about what gay people do.
I'm straight. I have researched this because it has come up on forums before. I also have gay friends and I know what their jokes really mean. They talk about stuff. But there is 'kinky' and there is perverse. And there is darkness.
AfterInfinity
EnPassant
Krazysh0t
EnPassant
Krazysh0t
If the people involved get enjoyment out of injuring themselves or others in the course of sex, who are YOU to say that it is wrong? Pain is your body's way of letting you know you are alive. These people have taken this concept and get off on it.
Perversion is a craving for life. What I am saying is that people should have life, not a perverse substitute. Sometimes people indulge in food to satisfy emotional craving. Isn't it better for such people to realise what is wrong and try to fix it instead of giving them some shallow maxim such as; 'if it feels good do it' ?
Perversion is just a meaningless label that humans attach to things that they don't like to try to convince others of their world view.
To argue this way is to argue that there are no values. Perversion exists on all levels of society. For example, justice is often turned into vengeance, a vengeance that has its roots in fear of evil or in evil. If the good exists perversions of it can exist. That is the question. If there are no perversions there are no true values. If there are true values there can be perversions. Do you value your life? If you value your life and someone else doesn't do you think they are wrong?
So you're saying all these animals are exhibiting a perversion of nature's laws as well? It's so wrong for us to do it, but no one talks about the dolphins acting gay.
"Round up the dolphins and make them listen to Justin Bieber! If it looks like it's in pain, then release it. Shoot any that order chai lattes! We gotta stay on top of this - we don't want our children to catch the gay virus!"edit on 14-2-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)
I'm not anti gay in the way you seem to think. I am saying that there is a culture of sado-masochism in the gay world.