The Mystery Religion – Jesus (The Sun of God)

reply to post by pleasethink


A Roman historian wrote about Jesus, think about that. Rome is the one that had the most to gain from Jesus' supposed existence.

So a guy employed by the ones who became even more rich and powerful off of Jesus' story proves that Rome didn't have a hand in it? Ok.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Do you also worship the guy who posted about this first, along long time ago, then his house got broken into right? I know the story. Seems like intelligence work. Just saying. It seems to also have done it's job.

3NL1GHT3N3D1....It seems as though you didn't read the OP because it goes into more detail than that.

tThe OP isn't going anywhere. I'll address it point by point. Care to address my reply a few posts ago? Was Jesus referring to ''Pisces'' when he fed people fish? Or ''capricorn'' whhen he spoke of goats? Thats really how silly the thread premise is.

reply to post by wildtimes


In all honesty, I appreciate your honesty. The first one to actually bring it to brass tacks. No it would not disappoint me. You want to know why? I would probably deserve it. But for another reason, I don't wish hell upon anyone. I am not a person who wishes for hell or for people to die. I have even tried to help people that have done terrible things to me. That is whats referred to as "carrying your cross". This is not an easy thing to believe. It demands a lot out of you. Like I have said, I didn't get into this as a means of going to heaven. I started reading the Bible to stump my dad, a pastor.

reply to post by pleasethink

I am not a person who wishes for hell or for people to die. I have even tried to help people that have done terrible things to me. That is whats referred to as "carrying your cross". This is not an easy thing to believe. It demands a lot out of you.

Well said, sir. This incident was 27 years ago.
I have grown much since then, and I, too, have tried to help people that have hurt me.

It's empathy.
I have a thread about it over in Social Issues, if you're interested.

Hope to get better acquainted with you. Welcome to ATS.

I started to realize that the truth was being denied by me. It lead to years of some of the worst things to ever happen to a person. My friends left. The girls left. Then the most horrible thing to ever happen to a person. Then years of drug addiction. It was truly hell on earth. So I don't wish you would experience these type of things. They refer to it as carrying your cross. But after that beautiful things became apparent to me. Amazing things began to blossom in my understanding. I wish I could share them with you. If you want to be evil, be evil. Don't let me stop you. But I wish to reach for higher plateaus, and I don't need illogic to reach them.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by nenothtu

 

How exactly is this "far out there"? 12 disciples/12 constellations,

12 donuts in a dozen. That doesn't mean christians got their religion from a bakery.

light of the world/sun, 33 degrees for each constellation/Jesus died at 33,

Constellations vary in size. Any astronomer, or even astronomy student could tell you that. 30 (not 33) degrees is the average for zodiacal constellations (360/12) because there are 12 of them, but none are precisely 30 degrees. "33" is a "fudge factor" to try and make them fit the plot being set forth.

the mention of ages by Jesus,

Common term, used even now not in connection with zodiacal ramblings. Since he didn't mention WHICH age, how can you be sure he wasn't referring to the iron age?

the reference to Aquarius by Jesus,

Aquarius? Sounded more like some secret squirrel recognition signals to me. "See the man sitting on the third park bench wearing a purple fedora" sort of thing. He didn't mention Aquarius. It DID sound pretty clandestine to me, though. Can't say "go find Fred and get a donkey from him" if the guys looking for Fred don't know what he looks like.

pagans killing Jesus then legalizing Christianity, etc.

Lost me there - I'm not sure quite how you factor that in. There was, however, a 400 year gap between the two events. Those pagans are a bit slow to getting around to supporting your theories, aren't they? They crucified 6000 slaves along the Appian Way after the Spartacus War, and now slavery is illegal in the same area. Go figure.

There's more evidence for the Jesus myth being an astrological myth than there is for little green men running around wouldn't you say? The dots are there you are simply refusing to connect them.

No, I wouldn't say. You see "connected dots", I see you suffering from pareidolia, making random connections where none exist because he wants to believe.

Since you are Christian of course you will ignore it because it challenges your beliefs. Best to ignore it rather than face it head on and debunk it like someone with an actual case against the premise.

Thou art mistaken, young sir. I am NOT christian. Just because my wife says so does not make it so. I do not believe Jesus was God - ask any christian, and they'll tell you to throw rocks at me. There's my case at debunking. How do you like it?

reply to post by pleasethink


You know what? Your post had me near tears, and then I came to THIS:

If you want to be evil, be evil. Don't let me stop you. But I wish to reach for higher plateaus, and I don't need illogic to reach them.

And now I wish I could retract my star that I gave you. What the hell? !!!
"Evil"?

You know what, here, I was gonna post this link for you anyway in case you wanted to contribute to it.
The Varieties of ATS Religious Experience; or, Variations on a Theme
You think you're all alone here with your experiences?

Yeah. Welcome to ATS.
Take it easy.

reply to post by wildtimes


I was more referring to you in a generalized sense. I am truthfully sorry as that came out wrong.

Well now I feel like some kind of ogre. Jeez.

reply to post by pleasethink


Mhmm. You're excused. (This time )
Anyway, here is the thread about empathy - and no, I don't usually pimp my threads anymore - but these might help you understand where I'm coming from, and some others on the forums.

Six Habits of Highly Empathic People

No obligation, of course. Just reaching out.

See you 'round.

It matters little who Jesus, if he existed, really was, rather, what is most important is what he was made to become. Yes, paganism has had the upper hand in the manipulation of the character Jesus Christ. His very name "Christ" is the first clue, as "Christ" is a pagan title that was conferred on many people before, during and after the advent of Jesus.

Jesus, the "Christ" is the hero in all of us. He is every astrological sign and as the sun goes through the zodiac, it dies on the cross. The sun dies everyday. Every day the sun succombs to darkness and descends in the underworld to fight the demons of darkness. Every morning the sun rises victorious.

Jesus is the "Alpha and the Omega" the virgin son of a virgin, a "fisher king", the great architect/carpenter, a son of the sun, a son of god. We are all Jesus. We are all "Christs".

That's the mystery. And now, it's out of the bag!

reply to post by wildtimes


Well thank you for excusing me, as I felt bad and it sucked. I promise I will look at them after the Super Bowl. I feel philosophied out right now. It will take time to refuel. It has been a roller coaster. It was truly nice conversing with you.

reply to post by pleasethink

I promise I will look at them after the Super Bowl. I feel philosophied out right now. It will take time to refuel.

LOL!!!

Yeah, me too. Time to toss hubby off my chair (yes, "my" chair) and I have to watch it, too.

Cheers.
No hard feelings.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Skorpion, don't you believe that the great flood happened exactly as it is described in the bible, despite all of the facts?

Without a doubt. Shawnees in North America have a flood story, too, and those nasty syncretic christians obviously stole it from them to put into their mystery religion.

The fundamental concept of Jesus having 12 disciples, being crucified on a cross, and dying at 33 years old is rooted in pagan sun worship cults. If you choose to ignore that you are being wilfully ignorant based on an emotional attachment to your religion. Look up the attributes and story of Mithra, the similarities are abundant between the two. Christian sites of worship were even built on top of Mithrain worship sites, that implies a cover up.

"Emotional attachment to his religion"? Tee hee. Skorpion is NOT a christian, either. I read your Mithraism link - it looked to me like an "all gods lead to Mithra" sort of tale. Maybe the Mithraites need to give up their emotional attachments, too. They appear, from your link, to be suffering from pareidolia, as well.

Christianity is not unique AT ALL. Study paganism and its gods without preconceived notions and it becomes abundantly clear that Christianity is plagiarized.

In the end, people believe what they want to believe, yourself included apparently. Just proves you're people, and nothing more.

reply to post by nenothtu

12 donuts in a dozen. That doesn't mean christians got their religion from a bakery.

Sure, we all know religions throughout history have based their mythology on how many donuts a baker puts in a box, right? And we all know bakers have been making donuts in dozens for thousands of years and the concept of a bakers dozen predates Christianity.

Good analogy.

Constellations vary in size. Any astronomer, or even astronomy student could tell you that. 30 (not 33) degrees is the average for zodiacal constellations (360/12) because there are 12 of them, but none are precisely 30 degrees. "33" is a "fudge factor" to try and make them fit the plot being set forth.

Like the OP points out, there is a space of 1.5 degrees on either side of each zodiac sign that represents the transition between each zodiac.

30 + 1.5 + 1.5 = 33

Aquarius? Sounded more like some secret squirrel recognition signals to me. "See the man sitting on the third park bench wearing a purple fedora" sort of thing. He didn't mention Aquarius. It DID sound pretty clandestine to me, though. Can't say "go find Fred and get a donkey from him" if the guys looking for Fred don't know what he looks like.

Yet the sign for Aquarius has been a man holding a jug of water in his hand for thousands of years, Jesus being a "fisher of men" represents the fish of Pisces and Aquarius follows Pisces. The symbolism is very clear here, you are just refusing to acknowledge it.

Lost me there - I'm not sure quite how you factor that in. There was, however, a 400 year gap between the two events. Those pagans are a bit slow to getting around to supporting your theories, aren't they? They crucified 6000 slaves along the Appian Way after the Spartacus War, and now slavery is illegal in the same area. Go figure.

The point I was making was Rome's history with conquering people then turning their customs into their own, twisting them to fit their needs. Read about cultural and religious diffusion, Rome used these techniquesin order to stay afloat for so long. They adapted to the times by absorbing others ideas into their own society. This is a historical fact.

Thou art mistaken, young sir. I am NOT christian. Just because my wife says so does not make it so. I do not believe Jesus was God - ask any christian, and they'll tell you to throw rocks at me. There's my case at debunking. How do you like it?

Sorry for assuming, I admit my mistake.

reply to post by nenothtu

Without a doubt. Shawnees in North America have a flood story, too, and those nasty syncretic christians obviously stole it from them to put into their mystery religion.

Sure, many civilizations across the world have flood stories, that doesn't mean they were all talking about the same event. Localized floods at different points in each civilizations history could be the answer, not an impossible global flood. The idea is ridiculous.

"Emotional attachment to his religion"? Tee hee. Skorpion is NOT a christian, either. I read your Mithraism link - it looked to me like an "all gods lead to Mithra" sort of tale. Maybe the Mithraites need to give up their emotional attachments, too. They appear, from your link, to be suffering from pareidolia, as well.

I know what faith skorpion is a part of, he's Muslim. Islam is still linked to Christianity and they both share the same god.

Also, the link is only showing the connections between other religions and Mithra. You can do that with lots of gods throughout history, it just so happens that Mithra was the topic of this particular article. Many of the pagan gods are plagiarisms of older gods, not just Mithra. This is where comparitive religion comes in, all religions and gods have links to one another.

3NL1GHT3N3D1

Sure, we all know religions throughout history have based their mythology on how many donuts a baker puts in a box, right? And we all know bakers have been making donuts in dozens for thousands of years and the concept of a bakers dozen predates Christianity.

12 is 12. your argument is predicated upon a tenuous "connection" to the number 12. That portion seems to border on numerology, but whatever floats your boat. BTW, a "baker's dozen" is 13, and doesn't factor into it.

Good analogy.

Thank you.

Like the OP points out, there is a space of 1.5 degrees on either side of each zodiac sign that represents the transition between each zodiac.

30 + 1.5 + 1.5 = 33

Exactly. An arbitrary fudge factor to attempt to make it fit, just as I said. I notice there was no answer for the fact that "30 degrees", or even 33, is an arbitrary figure that doesn't match the actual size of any of the constellations. I'm well versed in astronomy. You're unlikely to catch me out on this one, so it might be better to let it lie. Still, as you wish.

Constellations don't have "transitions", they have "borders".

Do you know where dividing a circle into 360 degrees came from? I do.

Yet the sign for Aquarius has been a man holding a jug of water in his hand for thousands of years, Jesus being a "fisher of men" represents the fish of Pisces and Aquarius follows Pisces. The symbolism is very clear here, you are just refusing to acknowledge it.

Nice stretch there. Pisces is represented by two fish, which are the "hook-ees", not the "hook-ers". You might have a case if the zodialcal sign were Reticulum, "the net", with which one fishes - but it isn't. As for Aquarius, a man holding a jug of water was probably a pretty uncommon sight at the time, and so it would serve as a good recognition signal for a clandestine op. Not likely to run into an entire herd of them, and have to figure out just which one was Fred.

The point I was making was Rome's history with conquering people then turning their customs into their own, twisting them to fit their needs. Read about cultural and religious diffusion, Rome used these techniquesin order to stay afloat for so long. They adapted to the times by absorbing others ideas into their own society. This is a historical fact.

Still took their own sweet time in fulfilling your prophecy retroactively, didn't they?

Sorry for assuming, I admit my mistake.

No problem - it's a common mistake, and all good fun... until the christians start throwing rocks at me.

3NL1GHT3N3D1

Sure, many civilizations across the world have flood stories, that doesn't mean they were all talking about the same event. Localized floods at different points in each civilizations history could be the answer, not an impossible global flood. The idea is ridiculous.

Yeah.

My point exactly.

Thanks for making it for me!

I know what faith skorpion is a part of, he's Muslim. Islam is still linked to Christianity and they both share the same god.

A tenuous linkage at best. The two hold vastly differing views of Jesus, who is, after all, the subject of the thread rather than God. There is no particular reason a Muslim should be offended at the premise of the thread - unless it were recognizable as pure bunk even to non-christians. Which it is.

Also, the link is only showing the connections between other religions and Mithra. You can do that with lots of gods throughout history, it just so happens that Mithra was the topic of this particular article. Many of the pagan gods are plagiarisms of older gods, not just Mithra. This is where comparitive religion comes in, all religions and gods have links to one another.

The link made numerous stretches of complete fantasy to attempt to link Mithras with a large number of unrelated deities, even going so far as to attempt to equate the word "Baal" with the modern English word "bull" to attempt those connections. It was ludicrous, and an entire waste of 1/2 hour to read and consider, a 1/2 hour of my life which I will never get back.

"Comparative religion" is one thing, connecting dots with no connections quite another. The firmest connections of that nature that I have seen are the ones concerning "Ishtar", "Astarte", "Easter", "Isis", "Diana" etc. I think a good case could be made to connect them all the way back to the prehistoric Venus figurines, but that is an entirely different thread.

reply to post by nenothtu

12 is 12. your argument is predicated upon a tenuous "connection" to the number 12. That portion seems to border on numerology, but whatever floats your boat. BTW, a "baker's dozen" is 13, and doesn't factor into it.

There are 12 "Jyotirlingas" in Hindu Shaivism.

The Hindu sun god Surya has 12 names.

There were 12 gods within the Greek pantheon.

Hercules had 12 labors.

Odin had 12 sons.

Israel had 12 tribes.

There are 12 zodiac symbols.

Jesus had 12 disciples.

Why do you think the number 12 has such a long history within religion and myth? The connection is not tenuous, it is prevalent within numerous religions and myths throughout history.

You're right, bakers dozens have 13 donuts, Jesus plus his 12 disciples equals 13, but that's neither here nor there.

Exactly. An arbitrary fudge factor to attempt to make it fit, just as I said. I notice there was no answer for the fact that "30 degrees", or even 33, is an arbitrary figure that doesn't match the actual size of any of the constellations. I'm well versed in astronomy. You're unlikely to catch me out on this one, so it might be better to let it lie. Still, as you wish.

Constellations don't have "transitions", they have "borders".

You'll have to take that up with the ones who created the zodiac wheel. They divided the sky into 12 constellations then represented them on paper with 12 sections taking up 30 degrees of the zodiac circle each with 1.5 degrees between each sign, so yes the number 33 is a big number within astrology and has been for thousands of years.

Nice stretch there. Pisces is represented by two fish, which are the "hook-ees", not the "hook-ers". You might have a case if the zodialcal sign were Reticulum, "the net", with which one fishes - but it isn't. As for Aquarius, a man holding a jug of water was probably a pretty uncommon sight at the time, and so it would serve as a good recognition signal for a clandestine op. Not likely to run into an entire herd of them, and have to figure out just which one was Fred.

So you just refuse to see the connection with fish, Jesus, and Pisces? There is absolutely no correlation between them at all? I'd say that's a stretch in itself. Fish are fish are fish, Jesus being a "fish"er of men and Pisces being a "fish" have no correlation? Ok.

Uncommon to who exactly? I'm sure the political leaders and religious leaders of the time were very familiar with the sign of Aquarius. To say that Rome wasn't aware of Aquarius and the precession of the equinox is a pretty big stretch too.

Still took their own sweet time in fulfilling your prophecy retroactively, didn't they?

Of course they did, why wouldn't they? Plans sometimes take hundreds of years to be accomplished with those in power, especially if those with he true message are still around at the time.