The Mystery Religion – Jesus (The Sun of God)

reply to post by nenothtu

Yeah.

My point exactly.

Thanks for making it for me!

Okay... glad we could clear that up, though I'm confused as to why you brought it up in the first place now.

A tenuous linkage at best. The two hold vastly differing views of Jesus, who is, after all, the subject of the thread rather than God. There is no particular reason a Muslim should be offended at the premise of the thread - unless it were recognizable as pure bunk even to non-christians. Which it is.

Yet they still recognize Jesus as a prophet and agree that he existed and spoke the truth. If he is found out to be a myth then that means their god agrees that a myth was actually real when it wasn't. An omnipotent god would not make that mistake.

The link made numerous stretches of complete fantasy to attempt to link Mithras with a large number of unrelated deities, even going so far as to attempt to equate the word "Baal" with the modern English word "bull" to attempt those connections. It was ludicrous, and an entire waste of 1/2 hour to read and consider, a 1/2 hour of my life which I will never get back.

In the Ugaritic myths Ba'al is associated with the bull and his cult animal was the bull. This is why in comparative religion you look at multiple religions and not just a few that you're familiar with. Ba'al and the bull most definitely do have a connection, whether you were aware of it or not is another issue.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Dude, you are a machine at this stuff. Man, I don't know how you do it. Points for just sticking tight to your beliefs.

Can I ask just one question in a very nice way, as to be accepting of how you must feel? How do you feel about intolerance?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yet they still recognize Jesus as a prophet and agree that he existed and spoke the truth. If he is found out to be a myth then that means their god agrees that a myth was actually real when it wasn't. An omnipotent god would not make that mistake.

The problem with the OP'S premise is that it isolates Jesus from the Monotheistic tradition that Jesus was part of and operated within. Why do you think Jesus kept referring to the Old Testament, its laws and its prophets? The Israelite religion was NOT about sun worship. These are the real facts.

All the OP has done is connect imaginary dots and change the premise of Jesus' story, making him out to be the "sun" when he was an actual man who lived and was documented outside Christian sources, but I guess OP wants us to believe that the Jews harbor hatred for the "sun".

reply to post by EsotericGod

The mystery religion centres its doctrine around the study of nature and its laws including the mysteries of life and sciences along with the cosmos. It is simply paganism but unlike paganism where nature and the natural laws are worshiped, the mystery religion tends to understand and identify nature and its laws.

Is this your own definition of a mystery religion? Because religions are not opposed to studying nature and its laws.

Jesus had 12 disciples. The sun travels through 12 constellations.

So basically "12 here" and "12 there" and nothing more.

If the 12 disciples are supposed to represent the 12 constellations.... did one constellation betray the ''sun'' and go off itself and later get replaced by another? See, if you want to play connect the dots, then go ALL the way.

The solstices, together with the equinoxes, are connected with the seasons and create a cross, thus god’s sun died on the cross.

It wasn't just Jesus. There were two other thieves with him as well. Are they "suns" or "mini suns"?
Crucifixion was a Roman execution method. Among other things, it was designed to kill by making breathing difficult, because of the body weight resting on the arms.
How did crucifixion kill?

"And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his garments became white as light." - Matthew 17:2

His face "shone" metaphorically like the sun.

"I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness." - John 12:46

"Light" doesn't mean sunlight.
It is a metaphor to describe a number of things - wisdom, righteousness, holines etc.
Proverbs 4:18 - The path of the righteous is like the morning sun, shining ever brighter till the full light of day.

Apply the same to those other verses.

“Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you bearing a pitcher of water... follow him into the house where he entereth in.” - Luke 22:10

Jesus said that when he instructed his followers to find a place to prepare the passover meal. According to the text, they found that actual man with a pitcher as Jesus said.

Let me ask you, Jesus fed people with fish, was that a secret reference to "Pisces"? Jesus spoke of goats, was that a secret reference to "Capricorn"?

Why not?

“And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short space.” – Revelations 17:10

If a "constellation" is supposed to be a king, then there are 12 of them. On what basis did you stop at just 7?
Besides, I don't think you know what Revelation 17 is about.

The rest of your thread is astrological mumbo-jumbo. ATS saw similar material when 2012-mania was at fever-pitch.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by BlueMule

 

They probably can't prove it wrong which is why they're staying away. If they ignore it they won't have to contemplate its validity.

No, we just get tired of repeatedly showing people credible sources and facts that completely debunk these claims, only to be ignored. It would be more productive talking to a wall, really. And with that, I bid you all adieu.

3NL1GHT3N3D1

There are 12 "Jyotirlingas" in Hindu Shaivism.

The Hindu sun god Surya has 12 names.

There were 12 gods within the Greek pantheon.

Hercules had 12 labors.

Odin had 12 sons.

Israel had 12 tribes.

There are 12 zodiac symbols.

Jesus had 12 disciples.

Why do you think the number 12 has such a long history within religion and myth? The connection is not tenuous, it is prevalent within numerous religions and myths throughout history.

For the same reason that the numbers 3, 6, and 7 have that association. By your logic, the divisions of the zodiac were "appropriated" from the Shawnee Indians, because according to them there were 12 "first people", 6 male and 6 female, who were created in the sky and lowered to Earth in a basket. obviously the creators of the zodiac stole that association of "12" and "sky" to create their zodiac. How did the ancient Sumerians get in contact with the Shawnee to steal that for their zodiac? I guess we'll never know, but it's obvious by your logic that they did. There's just no other explanation - clearly "12" and "sky" are associated in both!

You'll have to take that up with the ones who created the zodiac wheel. They divided the sky into 12 constellations then represented them on paper with 12 sections taking up 30 degrees of the zodiac circle each with 1.5 degrees between each sign, so yes the number 33 is a big number within astrology and has been for thousands of years.

Why can I not take it up with modern-day astrologers, since they are perpetuating the same errors to make otherwise non-existent "points"? I can make any point under the Sun (pun intended) if I am allowed to arbitrarily make up "facts" like "transitions". Incidentally, the 1.5 degrees you mention aren't "between" the constellations, they are overlaps. If each 30 degree increment is overlapped by 1.5 degrees at each end, the overlap area is actually 3 degrees.

So you just refuse to see the connection with fish, Jesus, and Pisces? There is absolutely no correlation between them at all? I'd say that's a stretch in itself. Fish are fish are fish, Jesus being a "fish"er of men and Pisces being a "fish" have no correlation? Ok.

Correct. No correlation, or more properly, a forced one. One has to chisel the corners off to make it fit into the puzzle. If I, as a "fisherman" get the hook caught in ME, as if I were the "fish", then I am doing it wrong.

If that sort of association had been meant, it would have been much simpler to call Jesus a "hunter of men" and made the association with Orion, the Hunter, which is also a cross-cultural stellar identity., or Reticulum, "The Net", which is what a fisherman catches fish with.

Jesus as the "fish-er" and Pisces as the "fish-ee" is a forced association at best.

Uncommon to who exactly? I'm sure the political leaders and religious leaders of the time were very familiar with the sign of Aquarius. To say that Rome wasn't aware of Aquarius and the precession of the equinox is a pretty big stretch too.

Uncommon to first century Jews in Jerusalem, of course. Rome ha nothing to do with it, although I suspect it would have been easier to find a male carrying a jug of water in Rome at the time. How are you factoring the precession of the equinoxes into it? That precession, by the way, "moves" the equinoxes over time. The "First Point of Aries" (aka "vernal equinox", "spring equinox"), for example, is no longer IN Aries. It's now in Pisces.

Of course they did, why wouldn't they? Plans sometimes take hundreds of years to be accomplished with those in power, especially if those with he true message are still around at the time.

I always get a kick out of these theories of multi-generational Evil Plans by Evil TPTBs. What's the point of even having power if you won't live to see your Evil Plans come to fruition?

3NL1GHT3N3D1

Okay... glad we could clear that up, though I'm confused as to why you brought it up in the first place now.

To illustrate the disconnect, which you now apparently agree with.

Yet they still recognize Jesus as a prophet and agree that he existed and spoke the truth. If he is found out to be a myth then that means their god agrees that a myth was actually real when it wasn't. An omnipotent god would not make that mistake.

Oh. My mistake. I failed to realize that the object of the discourse was to disprove the existence of anyone. Let me try my hand at that:

a Roman Centurion commanded 100 men.

There are 100 years in a century.

There are 100 pennies in a dollar.

There are 100 senators in the Senate.

The Vice President is "President of the Senate".

Obviously this proves that the vice president doesn't exist, because the number 100 can be traced back to the Roman Legions, so clearly the idea was stolen from them and incorporated into a mythology involving the existence of a Vice President.

Yeah.

I see how that works now.

In the Ugaritic myths Ba'al is associated with the bull and his cult animal was the bull. This is why in comparative religion you look at multiple religions and not just a few that you're familiar with. Ba'al and the bull most definitely do have a connection, whether you were aware of it or not is another issue.

That's not the connection the article made - it tried to connect the ancient Canaanite word "Baal" with the modern English word "bull" to make the association. I don't know much about Ugaritic mythology, but I do know that Baal was so named because he was "The Lord of Thunder", rather than "The Lord of Bulls".

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

All the OP has done is connect imaginary dots and change the premise of Jesus' story, making him out to be the "sun" when he was an actual man who lived and was documented outside Christian sources, but I guess OP wants us to believe that the Jews harbor hatred for the "sun".

No one in this thread is changing the premise of the Jesus story. The Roman Catholic Church did that several hundred years ago. Jesus the Nazarene, if he existed, most certainly wasn't born on Dec. 25th of a virgin. He probably didn't first begin his ministry at age 30 and wasn't crucified as a human "sin sacrifice". He didn't rise from the dead after 3 days and 3 nights and finally float off to heaven in some clouds. That is all mythology that's deeply rooted in paganism and sun worship that was later added to the narrative of the life of this supposed holy man called Jesus the Nazarene.

This is an awesome video, totally worth watching, but it's long. Fortunately, he explains the "sun god" mythology within the first 5 minutes.

reply to post by nenothtu


Dividing the year up into twelve’s is based on the number of full moons in one solar year and is probably one the oldest timekeeping systems known and this can still be seen in the language

Moon/months (english)
Monat/Mond (german)
Kuu/kuukausi(finnish)
And so on
The american indians give names the moon over the year
Januarys full moon = Wolf Moon
February full moon = Snow moon
And so on

reply to post by DeadSeraph

No, we just get tired of repeatedly showing people credible sources and facts that completely debunk these claims, only to be ignored. It would be more productive talking to a wall, really. And with that, I bid you all adieu.

Yeah? We get tired of repeatedly showing people credible sources and facts, too! But we keep trying, because it's important.

Even if it is about as productive as talking to a wall. Really. That's why we're 'winning' (and I use the word sarcastically). More and more people are waking up. It doesn't mean what Jesus is recorded as having said means anything less. It just is what it is, and people should be able to accept that in the 21st freaking century.

reply to post by racasan


If you want to get a much more accurate calendar than the moon thing then you might start monitoring where the sun rises over the course of a year, when you do you will find something like this is going on

And you will notice there are 4 important days, the 2 equinoxes and the 2 solstices which can be conceptualised like this

The Solar cross

... windwordNo one in this thread is changing the premise of the Jesus story.

Op did so. By interpreting the Jesus story as pointing to astrological symbols.

The Roman Catholic Church did that several hundred years ago. Jesus the Nazarene,

The catholic church modified a human Jesus into a God. Yes. However, they did not modify astrological symbols into Jesus,

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

However, they did not modify astrological symbols into Jesus,

Not sure I get what you're saying here.
No one said atrology was "changed" to suit Jesus - on the contrary, Jesus' 'legend' is based on the much more ancient astrological/pagan/seasonal traditions. The story is written to fit it. Not the other way around.

wildtimes...
Not sure I get what you're saying here.
No one said atrology was "changed" to suit Jesus - on the contrary,

It wasn't. Because Jesus is ROOTED in a previous religious culture.

Jesus' 'legend' is based on the much more ancient astrological/pagan/seasonal traditions. The story is written to fit it. Not the other way around.

no story was written to fit another. Jesus comes from Israelite religion... SEPARATE from astrology. People who think Jesus' 12 have something to do with 12 of the zodiac might think otherwise.

Astronomy, cosmology and the study of nature (sciences) had been going on for thousands of years before Christianity and the emergence of Christ.

There is an ancient site in Ireland known as 'new grange'. this monument was constructed 3000 years before Christ.

New Grange

One idea was that the room was designed for a ritualistic capturing of the sun on the shortest day of the year, the Winter Solstice, as the room gets flooded with sunlight, which might have helped the days start to get longer again. This view is strengthened by the discovery of alignments in Knowth, Dowth and the Lough Crew Cairns leading to the interpretation of these monuments as calendrical or astronomical devices.

Just like thousands of other ancient monuments around the world, this is a demonstration of astronomy before Christ.

The study of astronomy incorporated universal facts and as such; this is the reason we find the same information spread around the world. As stated, this information is universal.


Now the problem is is that if Jesus Christ was a real person, then there is simply too much coincidence with astronomy.

12 disciples - 12 constellations
died at 33 - sun moves house at 33rd degree
Jesus dies on the cross - the sun dies on the zodiac

What are the chances of a person sharing the exact same life and teachings to that of the world and the heavens above us.

for such a coincidence to occur, this man (Jesus Christ) would really have had to be the son of god. but the problem with that is that you have to provide me with the evidence for the existence of 'God'

Another more likely theory is that the teaching of astronomy had been applied to that of a person and that person became known as Jesus Christ. In this sense, The life and teachings of Jesus Christ is the truth. It is astronomy.

reply to post by nenothtu

 

12 donuts in a dozen. That doesn't mean christians got their religion from a bakery.

Say there are 1,000 references in the bible in regards to Jesus being the son of god.

Say that these 1,000 references can be interpreted by astronomy.

In comparison, there are 100 references to Jesus being a baker.

This means that although there is a chance that Christians got there religion from a bakery, there is a much higher chance that they got there religion from 'God' or 'Astronomy'.

Ignorance is bliss. Believe what you choose to believe.

When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear. Matthew 14:26

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Op did so. By interpreting the Jesus story as pointing to astrological symbols.

It isn't astrology, it's cosmology, timekeeping and a way to describe our world and the stages our lives.

The catholic church modified a human Jesus into a God. Yes. However, they did not modify astrological symbols into Jesus,

Jesus is the microcosm; Christ is the macrocosm. "They" created a narrative for the life of a "hero" who rises victorious, having won the battle against the dark forces and death. They were careful to match dates, and their narrative, to coincide with solar events observed and celebrated by pagan mystery religions.

Jesus, the man wasn't/isn't the "Christ", we all are. At the very least, Jesus represents the divinity and divine spark in us all. We are radiating the rays of the sun, and there but for the sun, go we!

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


The I think the procession of the equinoxes is useful in explaining some religious stuff
en.wikipedia.org...

Basically what you do is look to see which zodiacal constellation the sun rises in on the spring equinox, at this time it rises in Pisces like it has for the last 2000 years - 100/90 BC and ends ca. AD 2680

Before that it was in Aries and before that it was in Taurus
Ages:

(the red dot is the sun and the numbers are years)
Some people think that the story of Moses and the golden calf is a reference to the end of the age of Taurus and Moses is often depicted having horns


The Egyptians seem to be aware of this
Isis+horus

Isis seen here with bull horns and a (sun) disc holding Horus who might have been the avatar of that age

And you get something similar at the start of the age of Pisces
Jesus+mary

windword
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Op did so. By interpreting the Jesus story as pointing to astrological symbols.

It isn't astrology, it's cosmology, timekeeping and a way to describe our world and the stages our lives.

The catholic church modified a human Jesus into a God. Yes. However, they did not modify astrological symbols into Jesus,

Jesus is the microcosm; Christ is the macrocosm. "They" created a narrative for the life of a "hero" who rises victorious, having won the battle against the dark forces and death. They were careful to match dates, and their narrative, to coincide with solar events observed and celebrated by pagan mystery religions.

Jesus, the man wasn't/isn't the "Christ", we all are. At the very least, Jesus represents the divinity and divine spark in us all. We are radiating the rays of the sun, and there but for the sun, go we!

so why did Jesus keep referring to the Old Testament religion and its laws, prophets etc.? The OT religion was NOT about sun worship. As someone who reads the whole thing, why should Jesus be seen in isolation from the religion he was part OF.

reply to post by windword

 

Jesus is the microcosm; Christ is the macrocosm. "They" created a narrative for the life of a "hero" who rises victorious, having won the battle against the dark forces and death. They were careful to match dates, and their narrative, to coincide with solar events observed and celebrated by pagan mystery religions.

Jesus, the man wasn't/isn't the "Christ", we all are. At the very least, Jesus represents the divinity and divine spark in us all. We are radiating the rays of the sun, and there but for the sun, go we!

Wow. What a really nice premise. I had never before applied the micro/macro-cosm theory to Jesus so i really cannot comment although i can see how "they" would apply such a concept.

Thank you for providing me with some new research to undertake.

For arguments sake, could you provide me with an example of how Jesus and Christ may refer to the micro/macro-cosm!?..

Cheers!!