Pinal County Sheriff Deputy kills Manuel Longoria while Longoria's hands are raised in the air.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


I have to agree with you on this. We have some pretty dirty police departments. Hopefully the family will get a lawyer and sue. An ex Glendale police officer went through that video on KPHO and he even Said it was straight out Murder. He said that Police officers are trained to look at the Hands and he said obviously this mans hands were up in the air and his back turned. Straight out Murder.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Cops in Pinal County , Eloy and Casa Grande are pretty dirty anymore. It is a shame that more people don't video more of the Events of Police Miconduct and Brutality. I myself have seen 4 cases and on the last one involved 3 cops in Casa Grande that wound up with the same Identical Police Reports . The police Tackled the Guy to the Ground and he wasn't even under arrest yet and Claime in the Police Report that the Guy had gotten a busted lip from an air bag that deployed in the vehicle he had just wrecked in . What a crock of crap. I watched the whole thing and mind you , I was never mentioned as a witness so now I get to go testify. And so does the other witness that wasn't mentioned. There were nothing but lies on the police report. This world is just getting so bad.

lildreamer1
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

I have to agree with you on this. We have some pretty dirty police departments. Hopefully the family will get a lawyer and sue. An ex Glendale police officer went through that video on KPHO and he even Said it was straight out Murder. He said that Police officers are trained to look at the Hands and he said obviously this mans hands were up in the air and his back turned. Straight out Murder.

I just don't see murder, I see a failure to judge correctly, but that's hardly a civili rights or criminal charge. It's a cop that thought something was happening that wasn't.... Easy to do in a high stress situation..

I would be defending a civilian as fiercely in the same situation... I just don't see the wrong here.

reply to post by vkey08


"Failure to judge correctly"

That is a cop out excuse for murder.
Wouldn't fly for a citizen, shouldn't fly for a cop.

I sincerely doubt you would be defending a citizen the same.
You came into the thread calling it cop bashing.

vkey08

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by vkey08

 

Actually they do get away with more.

Ill pose it to you the same way I posed it to Xcath.

Do you believe that police charged with a serious crime generally get lighter sentences than citizens charged with the same crime?

No I don't.. In fact I think they are a lot harsher in the end.

1) A citizen charged with discharging a weapon and ending a life can be charged and tried in State Courts
2) A police officer get charged in state courts, Federal Courts and (the state ad federal equiv civil courts)

In the end result the investigation and rear crawling that goes into an officers trials are so much harsher than the ones that regular civilians go through.. without question..

This is the cop out that both you and Xcath gave. I didn't ask about the trials or investigation. I asked about the sentencing.
I am sure citizens WOULD LOVE to have all that rear crawling (as you refer to it) if it meant they got a fourth of the sentence in the end.

See.. This is exactly the problem. You and Xcath, both apparently in the law enforcement business, are both delusional. You become part of the problem. You back corrupt officers and may be corrupt yourself.

You believe that police are given harsher punishments than citizens for the same crimes? We can verify that is incorrect and shows you guys are completely delusional.

Here is just he most recent example. Had this officer been a civilian he would have been charged with multiple counts of rape, molestation/sexual assault. He probably would have gone up for about 10 years.

Instead he got 2 years. LINK

The cop that killed Oscar Grant. He shot the man, who was facedown and handcuffed, in the back.
He got 2 years with time served. He was not in danger. He shot a handcuffed man in the back, killing him. LESS THAN 2 years.

So you are delusional, and part of the problem.

My question was basically rhetorical. Everyone knows cops get way lighter sentences than civilians for the same crime. The fact that you guys don't believe that shows that you have been indoctrinated and no longer relate with civilians meaning you are part of the problem.

The responses I get from members of law enforcement here is really concerning. It backs up my fears that pretty much all cops are corrupt and indoctrinated. Also that departments hire lower IQs because people with lower IQs are more inclined to tow the line.

I'll pose the question to you one more time in case you want to change your embarrassing response.

After the investigations and after the trial do you agree that police receive lighter sentences (time in jail/punishment) than civilians charged with the same crime?

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


I take offense to the accusation that I'm corrupt because I point out a fact, that fact being that I do not believe that Law Enforcement gets off lighter than a civilian. I think there's a lot more investigation , that is career ruining in itself, even with an acquittal they can never go back to work, loss of pensions etc... So yeah in the end I think cops are in a much worse off position when something like this happens.

Example:

you kill one of my children in crossfire, you are charged with Depraved Indifference and Man 2 (or murder 2 depending on the area) you are acquitted you move on with your life, or you are fond guilty and do 10-25 and you're out in 10 on parole.

Cop does the same: loses job, loses family, loses pension, loses any educational benefit, has their life completely ripped apart
and is sentenced, again by a jury, and this time to 10-25 and is out in 10 and has to come out to no opportunities and no hope.

Now tell me which is harsher in the end? Not everything is about the court verdict...

reply to post by vkey08


You are WRONG!

Lol.. I like how you say if you kill someone as a civilian you go to jail and are done THEN go on to list what the cop loses like it's more. That's funny and shows just how delusional you are.

You do realize that when a civilian goes to jail for 10 years (or even for a short time) that they lose their job right? They also can lose their family just the same (cops aren't more or less likely).

Cops don't get equal sentencing. As I showed you, IF IF, they go to jail it's for a fraction of the time. I gave you a recent example. The cop that murdered Oscar Grant, he is already out. He was sentenced to 2 years plus time served. If a civilian had committed the same crime they would be in for 20 years.

You can resent my remark all you want, but it's true, you have lost touch. You are indoctrinated and don't relate to regular people. Corruption becomes more likely because you are so vehemently defending police over civilians.

You guys just can't admit the truth which is cops get lighter sentences.

I will give you the real world.

Civilian kills someone they go to jail for 10 years, lose their jobs, all of their money to lawyers and court costs, sometimes their family, come out with no hope of EVER finding a job (have trouble getting a job even in fast food).

Cop kills someone they likely get off (prob 9 times out of 10), they are defended by unions (and i would bet their lawyers are paid for), have other cops cover for them, have the WHOLE court system behind them, and IF by the grace of God they do get sentenced, it's to a much lighter charge and they get a fraction (2 years) of the sentence of the civilian. They lose their pension, job and maybe family (though less likely because they get shorter sentences). The pension is equal to what a civilian loses in costs.

This is the problem, you guys are out of teach with the real world. You have this complex that everyone is out to get you, but in reality it's just paranoia making cops corrupt and taking it out on citizens.

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by vkey08

 

You are WRONG!

Lol.. I like how you say if you kill someone as a civilian you go to jail and are done THEN go on to list what the cop loses like it's more. That's funny and shows just how delusional you are.

You do realize that when a civilian goes to jail for 10 years (or even for a short time) that they lose their job right? They also can lose their family just the same (cops aren't more or less likely).

Cops don't get equal sentencing. As I showed you, IF IF, they go to jail it's for a fraction of the time. I gave you a recent example. The cop that murdered Oscar Grant, he is already out. He was sentenced to 2 years plus time served. If a civilian had committed the same crime they would be in for 20 years.

You can resent my remark all you want, but it's true, you have lost touch. You are indoctrinated and don't relate to regular people. Corruption becomes more likely because you are so vehemently defending police over civilians.

You guys just can't admit the truth which is cops get lighter sentences.

Actually in some cases my recommendations are for much harsher sentences than Juries give, remember, it's not the court that imposes sentence, it's the Jury in a case, so your anger needs to be directed at the 12 men and women that make that decision, not those of us who do our best to investigate based upon the merits and facts of a case, I've seen civilians skate on things they should have been facing the death penalty for and vice versa, for you to think I'm defending the police is insane.

Every case is different, without all of the facts that the prosecutors and Juries have at their disposal, we have no way of knowing if they are indeed lighter or not... but I can tell you this, while you lose your job if you are incarcerated, it's a hell of a lot tougher on the other side of that for an ex-officer than it is for a civilian.

But remember that decision is not made by me, or a judge it's made by a Grand Jury (in the case to charge) and a Trial Jury (in the case of the verdict and sentencing) 12 people MUST agree or it's a moot question..

Now you never asked me the big question, but I'll answer it anyhow.

Do I think there should be reform in the selection criteria used to hire officers, and should they get more training?

Yes to both.

Here's why. Most of the cops on the street today are not educated, they have very little training before they are issued a weapon and told to go out and keep the peace. They don't understand those nuances that say someone with a Social Workers degree would get (hence why I'm not on the street and in the position I'm in) they don't get the subtle hints of people's actions and body language, they are trained to be goons nothing more and nothing less.

We have a saying in our office "Give a moron a gun and the moron will always do the wrong thing" goes for civilians and cops, if they aren't trained they cannot possibly understand the severity of their actions.. That is the core of this issue, we need better background, better training and lot more refresher courses... Not more bash bash bash, that accomplishes nothing..

vkey08
you kill one of my children in crossfire, you are charged with Depraved Indifference and Man 2 (or murder 2 depending on the area) you are acquitted you move on with your life, or you are fond guilty and do 10-25 and you're out in 10 on parole.

You really think that is all that happens to the civilians that you throw in a cage? You REALLY ARE delusional.

Cop does the same: loses job

Civilian loses job also.

, loses family

I don't know how this is an automatic but don't you think the same happens to a civilian?

, loses pension,

See above. No job, no pension.

loses any educational benefit,

If a civilian can't work in their field again same happens to them. Another fail.

has their life completely ripped apart

This doesn't happen to people you throw into cages?

and is sentenced, again by a jury, and this time to 10-25 and is out in 10 and has to come out to no opportunities and no hope.

Please list the opportunities and hope a civilian has when they come out.

Now tell me which is harsher in the end? Not everything is about the court verdict...

Yeah, we know it's not all about the court verdict because THAT would prove your delusion.

reply to post by HandyDandy


How would you deal with the situation? I gave a solution, everyone is ignoring it.

reply to post by vkey08


Nope. I don't have to direct my anger at the jury, because a big part of the reason they get off easier is because they are never charged as harshly.

See, they are charged by their friends. I say let us civilians charge police.

Again I refer to my previous example.


I know you haven't gone to that link once, even thought i've posted it to you multiple times, but i'll make a thread on it later today so you guys can discuss this further. That officer was sexually assaulting people for almost 6 years and is co workers and sergeant knew. He finally got busted and has dozens of cases of rape/sexual assault. He got 2 years and 3 other officers pretty much got off unscathed (they resigned on their own), there were more officers involved, but they didn't face anything nor did the sergeant who knew. This was a whole department that knew that this scumbag was harrassing people and doing disgusting things (having officers hold a gun to someones head will you plant evidence in their anus to the point where the bleed, pulling over teens and pulling their pants down in public in front of their friends and putting your fingers in them without gloves to intentionally humiliate them), he got 2 years.

The question was rhetorical. We all know cops get off lighter. Ask yourself this, we all know the truth, but you don't, what does that say about you?

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by vkey08

 

Nope. I don't have to direct my anger at the jury, because a big part of the reason they get off easier is because they are never charged as harshly.

See, they are charged by their friends. I say let us civilians charge police.

Again I refer to my previous example.

Civilians do charge them for the most part, that's what you're missing, a Grand Jury is not made up of people that are in LE, they are people off the street that are called in to serve for a finite time. How is that NOT being charged by civilians, or do you not understand the process one must go through to get charged with a capitol offense?

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by vkey08

 

Nope. I don't have to direct my anger at the jury, because a big part of the reason they get off easier is because they are never charged as harshly.

See, they are charged by their friends. I say let us civilians charge police.

Again I refer to my previous example.


I know you haven't gone to that link once, even thought i've posted it to you multiple times, but i'll make a thread on it later today so you guys can discuss this further. That officer was sexually assaulting people for almost 6 years and is co workers and sergeant knew. He finally got busted and has dozens of cases of rape/sexual assault. He got 2 years and 3 other officers pretty much got off unscathed (they resigned on their own), there were more officers involved, but they didn't face anything nor did the sergeant who knew. This was a whole department that knew that this scumbag was harrassing people and doing disgusting things (having officers hold a gun to someones head will you plant evidence in their anus to the point where the bleed, pulling over teens and pulling their pants down in public in front of their friends and putting your fingers in them without gloves to intentionally humiliate them), he got 2 years.

The question was rhetorical. We all know cops get off lighter. Ask yourself this, we all know the truth, but you don't, what does that say about you?

edit on 28-1-2014 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

I'm not saying that there aren't situations that it happens that way.. Unfortunately a jury DID have the opportunity to ask fo ra longer sentence in that case (I do remember it, and there are still pending Federal charges IIRC I don't think that investigation is anywhere near done) I've also seen the opposite though, where civilians get next to nothing for things that they should have been put away for, our justice system is far from perfect, you should know that as well as I do..

and yes looked it up again, the Federal Investigation is not finished

reply to post by vkey08


It's funny that you are saying cops are trained to be goons, and give a moron a gun, etc - now. Yet defend the cop in the videos actions.

Cops are becoming more violent, and more corrupt. They are killing people regularly and are getting away with murder.

After they unjustly kill these people they are subject to lessened charges and minimum sentences (if they are ever charged in the first place).

This is the world we live in. We aren't cop bashing, we are whistle blowing.

vkey08


I'm not saying that there aren't situations that it happens that way.. Unfortunately a jury DID have the opportunity to ask fo ra longer sentence in that case (I do remember it, and there are still pending Federal charges IIRC I don't think that investigation is anywhere near done) I've also seen the opposite though, where civilians get next to nothing for things that they should have been put away for, our justice system is far from perfect, you should know that as well as I do..

and yes looked it up again, the Federal Investigation is not finished

See though, you think it's a rare flower, but it's not. That is the norm. It went on for 6 years with the ENTIRE DEPARTMENTS KNOWLEDGE.

It is happening in every department and departments are so close knit that if there is one corrupt, there are several, and if there are several then EVERYONE has a secret.

Then I mentioned the case of Oscar Grant, murdered while handcuffed on the ground, all the investigations are finished and that officer already served his measly 2 years and is out.

It's not an accident, it's not a few cops slipping through the cracks, it's the way things are here. A a dangerous amount of cops are criminals with a get out of jail free card. We are talking several thousand people killed by cops in the US each year. It's practically a war zone. Every time we are pulled over our lives are at risk.

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by vkey08

 

It's funny that you are saying cops are trained to be goons, and give a moron a gun, etc - now. Yet defend the cop in the videos actions.

Cops are becoming more violent, and more corrupt. They are killing people regularly and are getting away with murder.

After they unjustly kill these people they are subject to lessened charges and minimum sentences (if they are ever charged in the first place).

This is the world we live in. We aren't cop bashing, we are whistle blowing.

No it's bashing.. reason:

You aren't giving solutions just pointing out the flaws. Without a solution, it's just bashing, I have given my solution, what's yours.

reply to post by vkey08


No, it's not bashing when it's the truth.
I have plenty of solutions.

Hire cops with higher IQ's - this will lead to smarter actions taken, cops more likely to speak out on corruption.
Charge and sentence cops the same as civilians - this will deter corruption.
Make all officers required to wear body cameras any time they interact with the public.
Traffic officers only respond to traffic incidents - keeps them from getting hyped up and then taking it out on someone that was just speeding.

I could give a million ideas.

The most important is to charge and sentence cops accordingly to deter this kind of thing.

** Friendly Reminder **

The thread topic for this is focused on the actions of one Sheriffs Deputy and the reactions of one department/Sheriffs Office. This isn't about all cops, all departments or all those who do or will pursue careers in law enforcement.

Please keep to the topic and not the entire range of people in that particular profession. Thanks.

-Wrabbit2000

reply to post by vkey08


More delusion.

The phrase "to press charges" means that a victim of a criminal action reports that action to the police, filing a police report so the district attorney or local prosecutor can then prosecute a case. Generally, this causes criminal charges to be brought by the prosecutor against an accused person. Once those criminal charges are filed, the accused may be arrested and will have to either arrange a plea bargain with the prosecutor or will have to stand trial for the crime and potentially face jail time or other penalties.

www.wisegeek.org...

Where in that quote does it say that civilians press criminal charges?

Hint: It doesn't.

HandyDandy
reply to post by vkey08

 

More delusion.

The phrase "to press charges" means that a victim of a criminal action reports that action to the police, filing a police report so the district attorney or local prosecutor can then prosecute a case. Generally, this causes criminal charges to be brought by the prosecutor against an accused person. Once those criminal charges are filed, the accused may be arrested and will have to either arrange a plea bargain with the prosecutor or will have to stand trial for the crime and potentially face jail time or other penalties.

www.wisegeek.org...

Where in that quote does it say that civilians press criminal charges?

Hint: It doesn't.

you don't understand the system, neither does that explanation:

So here's a little primer. The police arrest someone, could be anyone. They investigate and hand that information over to the prosecutor's office.. in the case of routine crap, the prosecutor could in fact charge the individual and that would be that, however, in a capital case.. You NEED to have the indictment issued by a Grand Jury, the Grand Jury is made up of people, like you like me like anyone ,and they hear the evidence the prosecution is going to use in their case, they then decide if it meets the criteria to charge said individual with the indictment.

This is not something they can get around, it's the law, a Grand Jury must indict on a capital case, a prosecutors office cannot on it's own press those charges... The explanation you reference is very simplistic in the fact that it omits those steps..