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Pinal County Sheriff Deputy kills Manuel Longoria while Longoria's hands are raised in the air.

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posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


Has anyone verified this video as being real and unedited? I'm no video expert but I get a whiff of something after watching both versions.... something with the sound....could just be poor quality....could be something else...
I'm not hesitant to bash on bad LEOs, I've seen firsthand what the War on Drugs did to LEOs, right here in our county. However, in situations like this one, facing a man who is telling them that he's gonna do bodily harm and has demonstrated a willingness to do so, they are within the law to use deadly force.




posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by Another_Nut
 


I read just fine thank you...

I read the transcript another site had of this, I watched it 40 times, ran it through audio enhancement, and listened again. If I were in the US Atty's Office for Civil Rights (oh WAIT) I would not have called this unjustified.

To address the person that thinks it's edited, if it is, it's a damn good job, it's seamless in the voices.. I can't find any evidence of that listening to it, but I'm not an expert in editing audio and video..

I have 15 other cases that meet the burden of investigative proof for Civil Rights (18 USC 13 s.s.242) deprivation of rights under color of law much MUCH better than this one.. Sorry folks, it's tragic whenever anyone dies, I an I vehemently against the taking of a single life if it can be avoided, but.. can't convince me on this one.



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


Nice side step

Another apologists

I quoted the escalation of force

I have shown when force justified

And you ignored the facts to tell me your opinion

Didn't even answer my question

Legitimate use of force was nowhere to be seen that day

Good day

Eta argument from authority (what you're trying to do) holds no water here.

Facts pleas
edit on pm120143109America/ChicagoMon, 27 Jan 2014 21:24:47 -0600_1000000 by Another_Nut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by redhorse
 


I think the officer made a mistake as well even though as you said it was justified. However this guy never intended to be captured sounds like he was suicide by cop. I think with better training on how to deal with those types could help. When in a situation like that where the person knows hes out of options the police need to be more cautious IMHO. Because as you see at the last second he changed his mind. Unfortunately for him the dominoes had all ready started to fall.



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 02:33 AM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


Actually they do get away with more.

Ill pose it to you the same way I posed it to Xcath.

Do you believe that police charged with a serious crime generally get lighter sentences than citizens charged with the same crime?



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 02:39 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


I love that you will not straight up answer this. You have given answers that are indirect and when I asked straight up fornthe answer instead of saying " yes" or " no" you said you've answered it and I should go back and look.

Are police who are charged with a serious crime more likely to receive a lighter sentence (actually more likely to go free as well) than a civilian charged with the same crime?

You have not and are doing all you can to avoid answering that question direct.



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 02:47 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


With that post you showed me you do not think and function like a normal person. You have been indoctrinated.
You say legally the cops shooting thw kid was justified.

No it was not. I dont care what you think.

Here is what happened. A kid was walking through a field alone with his airsoft gun. Two police saw him (it was never called in) they call dispatch. They stop the car and yell to him. They shoot him as he turns around 8 seconds between their call and his death.

That is not different than me pulling up and mowing a kid down.

If they thought they wouldn't feel safe they shouldn't have stopped in the first place. They just wanted to kill someone.

As for the Oscar grant shooting. You missed the point. Because he was a cop he got an insanely light sentence.

The law seems to operate on this small town sheriff concept that cops are trust worthy and respectable and it won't happen again. But thats bull#.

You still havent actually answered my question.



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


I dont know if anybody has pointed it out yet but, Why the hell didnt the officer 2 feet away from him in the first couple of seconds either take him down or talk him down? Would he also not have been close enough to see he had no visible weapon?



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 04:39 AM
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Xcathdra
Ive answered this question - Yes I would go against the law, and have done so it certain circumstances.


So what makes you any different than a criminal? That badge on your chest?

And furthermore: What gives YOU the right to use YOUR moral judgment but then go around and tell us citizens that WE can't use OUR moral judgment and can only use THE LAW?
edit on 28-1-2014 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 06:28 AM
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GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by vkey08
 


Actually they do get away with more.

Ill pose it to you the same way I posed it to Xcath.

Do you believe that police charged with a serious crime generally get lighter sentences than citizens charged with the same crime?


No I don't.. In fact I think they are a lot harsher in the end.

1) A citizen charged with discharging a weapon and ending a life can be charged and tried in State Courts
2) A police officer get charged in state courts, Federal Courts and (the state ad federal equiv civil courts)

In the end result the investigation and rear crawling that goes into an officers trials are so much harsher than the ones that regular civilians go through.. without question..



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 06:32 AM
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Another_Nut
reply to post by vkey08
 


Nice side step

Another apologists

I quoted the escalation of force

I have shown when force justified

And you ignored the facts to tell me your opinion

Didn't even answer my question

Legitimate use of force was nowhere to be seen that day

Good day

Eta argument from authority (what you're trying to do) holds no water here.

Facts pleas
edit on pm120143109America/ChicagoMon, 27 Jan 2014 21:24:47 -0600_1000000 by Another_Nut because: (no reason given)


I stated a fact, in the strictest interpretation of the law as it is written, the officer did not break it. If I had been in the same situation, I would have done the same thing, in the end, facts don't' enter into this call from us, we weren't there in person, it's always easy to judge after the fact when you aren't in the midst of the situation.

I did not ignore the facts, I watched the video I enhanced it's audio to try and see what you were yammering about, and I just don't see your position anywhere in it, I see a person that was just stupid and honestly, give the man a Darwin and move on, there are much more heinous uses of force to be looked into..



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


Yammering? Really?

You stated what you would do in that position

That is opinion not fact

Please address my quotes

And answer my question

Quite avoiding the facts

Like escalation of force

Physical
Chemical
Electronic
Impact
Firearm

Then access

What legitimate police purpose the officer showed shooting a man in the back

Stop with the run around



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 07:45 AM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


the officers begin firing bean bags apparently at 20 seconds in. the last non lethal shot fired at 23 seconds almost 24. lets say a duration of 3.5 seconds of non lethal shots. at 25 seconds the lethal shots are fired.

so after a maximum of 1.5 seconds of not firing bean bags the killer determined that they were ineffective and it was justifiable to shoot a man in the back with his hands up.

put yourself in this situation, you have a guy surrounded, there has been no indication that he was armed, he was just hit with several bean bags at close range and apparently tazed although it wasnt evident in the video, he is facing away from you and is raising his hands above his head. you have had your firearm trained on him the entire time, should you feel that your life is in danger, and that the target is a threat, has his behavior in the last 1.5 seconds convinced you that the non lethals were ineffective?

from the perps perspective, he was given 1.5 seconds to choose his fate, he chose to put his hands up and face the car, in hindsight that was a poor choice, although its likely that his death was a forgone conclusion, anything he did in that short time would have had the same result.

a crazy state of affairs for sure.



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 07:46 AM
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Another_Nut
reply to post by vkey08
 


Yammering? Really?

You stated what you would do in that position

That is opinion not fact

Please address my quotes

And answer my question

Quite avoiding the facts

Like escalation of force

Physical
Chemical
Electronic
Impact
Firearm

Then access

What legitimate police purpose the officer showed shooting a man in the back

Stop with the run around


Youa re also stating an opinion based upon what you view in that video to be wrong, we both could be wrong we weren't there.

You are looking at the video through "I need to find error with this officer" glasses. Others are looking at it through "Good job " glasses, I don't have that luxury as I've been trained to look at these things through "Ok, this happened, what's the unsaid or unseen portion of this and how did it effect the outcome"

There are always three sides to a story, one side, the other side and the truth, you need to stop analyzing it from the point of view of someone out to call out the cops on everything and start by assessing the WHOLE situation, every body movement, every word spoken, every single bit of information that you can find out on it, I will venture a guess, that while the incident was indeed tragic, that the officer was justified in his actions.

You cannot state FACT it wasn't without more info than just this video, sorry, doesn't work that way, or I could get a photo of you that makes it look like you punted a puppy and you'd e guilty even if from a different angle you could see said puppy was jumping and happened to land near your kicking foot. THAT is the difference between critical thought and lynch mob mentality..

Now that said you've ignored a few comments I've made:

"I have 15 other cases that meet the standard of proof much better than this one on my desk"
did you miss that?

Let me explain one of those cases. Cop shoots an unarmed 14 year old in the back because the kid suddenly dropped his arm from exhaustion. That was NOT a justified shooting, and that officer will go to jail for a very long time for it.

or if that doesn't tickle your excessive use of force fancy...

How about this one: Cop beats the living crap out of a 12 year old autistic girl becaus eshe didn't understand his question. Used his baton screaming "f-ing retard" over and over... That certainly gets my ire up...............

why are you focusing on this one where there are so many others, much much more heinous...



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


Ahh yes

More avoidance and argument from authorit

Fact: escalation of force
Physical
Chemical
Electronic
Impact
Firearm

Fact
excessive force
Force required to perform a force beyond what is legitimate for see my quote from the link i posted that you quoted

Fact
order of events. Which i have gone over so many times

Your "fact"
I would have done the same thing(aka opinion not fact)

Then your authority (arguement from authority)

Now quite avoiding my question

What legitimate purpose did that office serve?

Did you refuse to answer my facts with anything other than your opinion

I am done with you in this conversation



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 09:15 AM
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catt3
Looks like he deserved it to me. any time you do something deemed suspicious to a police officer you are liable to be shot.
If I was a cop I would have done the same. I know all you cop haters out there think it is over aggressive, but they have no idea who you are and what you are capable of.


Whatever! Yes Manuel stole a car and yes went on a high speed chase
Yes he was in the wrong but that is why we have the judicial system. We have all these want to be robo cops that are worthless. The Police are supposed to protect and serve. Yeah right. They take the law into their own hands and do what they want and because they are Police Officers get away with it. This man had already Surrendered , had his hands up in the air and his back turned to police. That is straight out murder. He was already hurt from the tasers and bean bag guns, in the video even at that time it show he had no weapon. TheRe were quite a few officers there and they couldn't handle it without literally Murderering him. What a Bunch of Losers. For that matter in any other situation the police officer is name, why hasn't he to this day been named. And to the Super Cop that manhandled him after he was shot and on the ground, Does he feel more of a man.
. What a disgrace. And I as a taxpayer pay for these sloppy people. I would rather have a regular person off the street do this Job and know that the people that break the laws will have a chance and not just be killed. I don't care if nobody likes what I say either. Our so called Police officers are a disgrace and need to be stopped now. More people should video things that happen . Bet alot more would be found out.
RIP Manual. Remember People we all and I did say we all have to stand before God and Karma will kick each one of us in The Butt.



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 09:22 AM
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lildreamer1

catt3
Looks like he deserved it to me. any time you do something deemed suspicious to a police officer you are liable to be shot.
If I was a cop I would have done the same. I know all you cop haters out there think it is over aggressive, but they have no idea who you are and what you are capable of.


Whatever! Yes Manuel stole a car and yes went on a high speed chase
Yes he was in the wrong but that is why we have the judicial system. We have all these want to be robo cops that are worthless. The Police are supposed to protect and serve. Yeah right. They take the law into their own hands and do what they want and because they are Police Officers get away with it. This man had already Surrendered , had his hands up in the air and his back turned to police. That is straight out murder. He was already hurt from the tasers and bean bag guns, in the video even at that time it show he had no weapon. TheRe were quite a few officers there and they couldn't handle it without literally Murderering him. What a Bunch of Losers. For that matter in any other situation the police officer is name, why hasn't he to this day been named. And to the Super Cop that manhandled him after he was shot and on the ground, Does he feel more of a man.
. What a disgrace. And I as a taxpayer pay for these sloppy people. I would rather have a regular person off the street do this Job and know that the people that break the laws will have a chance and not just be killed. I don't care if nobody likes what I say either. Our so called Police officers are a disgrace and need to be stopped now. More people should video things that happen . Bet alot more would be found out.
RIP Manual. Remember People we all and I did say we all have to stand before God and Karma will kick each one of us in The Butt. Cop or Police know the risk they are taking , if they can't handle it and do the job right then they shouldn't be cops. If I was a cop there is no way that I would take justice in my own hands. God see's everything and he will justify it.



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by Chickensalad
 


Good Question. I would say because it shows the cowards that they really are. With a weapon they feel more manly.



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 09:28 AM
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Another_Nut
reply to post by vkey08
 


Ahh yes

More avoidance and argument from authorit

Fact: escalation of force
Physical
Chemical
Electronic
Impact
Firearm

Fact
excessive force
Force required to perform a force beyond what is legitimate for see my quote from the link i posted that you quoted

Fact
order of events. Which i have gone over so many times

Your "fact"
I would have done the same thing(aka opinion not fact)

Then your authority (arguement from authority)

Now quite avoiding my question

What legitimate purpose did that office serve?

Did you refuse to answer my facts with anything other than your opinion

I am done with you in this conversation


You're done because you can't look at it objectively.. That's the point i'm making. Step back, take a breather and ask yourself if you are looking objectively at the video (without bias towards either side)

You need to back up and stop looking at the video through "what can I find wrong with this situation" glasses, and you refuse to. If you pay close attention to your "facts" you're missing the nuances that go into a fluid and dangerous situation, cold facts on paper and listed do not take into account the mood, and tone of things being said, the visibility of of things off frame or out of our frame of reference, the whole start to all of this, and the like, so all we all have to go on are our opinions, you don't know all the facts any more than I do (well as of this morning i know quite a bit more that i can't discuss, and I'm leaving it out of my comments here)

Facts mean nothing without context, and without that context you're missing one of the largest pieces of the puzzle.

but if you want facts here they are, the moron that got shot didn't listen to repeated warnings and instructions, he was told there would be consequences and continued to be a total moron and therefore he was shot. That is what I see in that video, a really big guy thinking he was invincible ignoring everything that was being shouted at him.

But that's not a nuance..

That's not the WHOLE story... that's just what facts are in the video.. Again, we don't' know the beginning of this whole series of events, just what's shown, and it could be edited we don't know, until we do, we are not qualified to make a call on it one way or the other. The facts don't support a call of excessive force at this time..

(BTW: Any prosecutor will tell you that forming an opinion from facts is what people do, we are supposed to based upon our training and our personal experiences.. you are doing it too, even in your quoting of facts, since they are incomplete, you are basing your whole argument on an incomplete rendering of events.)



posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by Another_Nut
 


addendum to add: at this time there appears to be no violation of 18 USC 13 s.s.242 which is the defining standard for bringing Civil Rights charges against an officer, he did not deprive the suspect of his civil rights under the color of the law. Sorry, but that's my opinion and my opinion is that of someone who deals with this a LOT and has seen a lot of cops put away for abusing their authority. (something else you keep missing, i'm not on the side of the police)

Can't see excessive use of force here

Now unfortunately I have to go make sure a real power abusing cop goes to jail.....



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