Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

In the newly written Foreword to this latest edition, Jacques offers his thoughts on the UFO phenomenon, based on more than 40 years of scientific research:

I believe that UFOs are physically real. They represent a fantastic technology controlled by an unknown form of consciousness. But I also believe that it would be dangerous to jump to premature conclusions about their origin and nature, because the phenomenon serves as the vehicle for images that can be manipulated to promote belief systems tending to the long-term transformation of human society.

That's what he implies through "the control system"

It's the material manifestation of the human unconscious (whatever that is, could include also other life forms)
Basically collective fears and desires taking shape into reality, which would imply that UFOs and "divine/mystical apparitions" are two sides of the same coin, only the appearance changes, but it's the same phenomenon
The purpose of this phenomenon is to guide intelligent life forms in the right direction of evolution
He implies that either "someone" or "something" is pulling the strings behind the curtain and/or reality is not as real as we think it is


That's for one side of the interpretation

The other side can be that the phenomenon is used in a bigger picture, by "non UFO people" with an agenda (meaning, military/religious/madElite/youNameIt) in order to manipulate the masses

And this, is also another interpretation of what he could imply



Why is he vague?
Maybe because he's scared of being taken for a nutcase (or maybe more) or simply because he has no idea of what's behind

Food for thoughts
Mathematical_universe_hypothesis
Boltzmann_brain

Jacques Vallee - Messengers of Deception - UFO Contacts and Cults (1979).pdf

Start from 55:50

Replying to ProphetZoroaster


I'm curious as to how you interpreted your quote. Vallee, vs. you:

Him> They represent a fantastic technology controlled by an unknown form of consciousness. But I also believe that it would be dangerous to jump to premature conclusions about their origin and nature,

You > It's the material manifestation of the human unconscious (whatever that is, could include also other life forms)

Me: Where did 'the human unconscious' come from? He didn't say that.

Him > because the phenomenon serves as the vehicle for images that can be manipulated to promote belief systems tending to the long-term transformation of human society.

You > The purpose of this phenomenon is to guide intelligent life forms in the right direction of evolution

Me: Where did 'guide in the right direction of evolution' come from? He didn't say that.

Just wondering if there is other info you didn't quote that implies those things.

The GUT
You can "conjure" wealth or attractive sexual partners for example--and if deep enough to care, wisdom--but you'll never make an orange an apple on the shelf at Walmart.

I am splitting hairs here, but for specific purposes...while you cannot actually transform an apple into an orange, you can convince another person that the apple that they are seeing is an orange. Both by exploitation of ignorance or by the power of hypnosis and suggestion. Perception, visual or otherwise, is both subjective and open to manipulation.

The GUT

How deeply reality can actually be affected by one's will is up for debate, but the rudiments--in their simple context--aren't seemingly that mysterious.

They aren't that mysterious, but that won't prevent people from falling victim to the sheep-goat effect when they take a skeptical or adversarial stance toward someone who is in a position to demonstrate how deeply reality can be affected.

Both the magician and the skeptic are exerting will...

BlueMule
They aren't that mysterious, but that won't prevent people from falling victim to the sheep-goat effect when they take a skeptical or adversarial stance toward someone who is in a position to demonstrate how deeply reality can be affected.

Both the magician and the skeptic are exerting will...

I am VERY open to such a demonstration. And I totally personally concur with what KilgoreTrout just stated above. Ready to demonstrate? Otherwise I have to take that as yada, yada.

I don't talk about it much here, but I have experience with what William James refers to in The Varieties of Religious Experience. Don't let the term "religious" throw you off if you haven't read it.

I've also experienced a very seemingly real "apparition" in the company of others. I'm not prepared to say I totally understand them, but I will say they transcended what is commonly proffered as explanation by the psychiatric community. It was much more complex than "delusion." As such, I am not a skeptic, but a seeker for further explanation.

Again: You seem to infer you are in a position to "demonstrate." Was that rhetoric?

Just to put here some fresh news

As key witness to the alien abduction of Travis Walton that took place on November 1975, Steve Pierce remained silent for 38 years. He recently broke his silence to the world of his part in the incident and to set the record straight. As part of his own extraordinary personal story since the event Steve recently underwent a professional hypnotic regression session with Yvonne Smith. The results of that session documented on video will shock many disbelievers. Here is just a small excerpt of this forthcoming video

stevepierce.soundfuturesdirect.com...

reply to post by The GUT


Yes I've read James. And Jung, Campbell, Armstrong, Frazer, Eliade, Huston, Kripal, Watts, on and on and on.

No, its not me who is prepared to demonstrate to you. You seem like an open-minded friendly guy and I love your threads. But even open minded guys will exert an opposing will when the magician is someone they don't get along with too well, or disagree with about something important to them.

Just sayin'.

RedCairo
Probably right now, every general groupthink -- from Greer's dayglo optimism to Jacobs' shifty-eyed paranoia -- is its own handy microclimate and mini-control system.

So whatever we were to try and establish as a 'new' paradigm (which was ... not what they wanted? not what it is? [good luck with that since it's many things and we don't know] not what has so-far been easy to control?) would need to be something that we don't already have. And we already have all of those things.

An excellent point. We need even more new ideas about the nature of the phenomenon. In a hand-wavy sort of way, I'm a big fan of the dark plasma 'shadow earth' hypothesis simply for its breaking from the mold of traditional myth.

RedCairo

To understand possible hooks or manipulation angles, we might wish to look at the changing face of the phenomenon itself,

Does it really change? Or does only society's communication and paradigms about it change?

The phenomena associated with JV's control system have certainly changed somewhat in its style, in the short span of recorded history. We no longer see miraculous god-figures appear at temples, gathering armies publicly, as is recorded from early times. These outrageous public manifestations of entities largely diminished as travel and communication increased. Today's phenomenon is almost entirely personal in scale of appearance, and public views are limited to strange objects in the sky, for the most part. Vallee addresses some of this at length including the parts which have *not* changed (shiny suits and buckwheat cakes!).

RedCairo
I suspect though, that there may be certain frequency states (nervous system side effects) which certain topical focuses make more dominant. A little more subtle than alpha-beta-delta stuff but along the same lines, at least -- that is to say, being excited for the potential of your 12-strand DNA may lead to some slightly different nervous system details than being paranoid about the aliens that will kidnap and rape you. A very "broad range or spectrum" -- nothing detailed -- but it might actually make a difference in, so to speak, the doorways you open, what you can perceive and interact with, if the human nervous system relates to that (I believe it does, but this is bias).

I entirely agree: the subtle workings of the human body may be involved in interactions with the phenomenon. This again returns to the idea of ritual as a tool, which is designed to evince those subtleties.

RedCairo
Obviously, the giant white wormy things are a completely different topic than 'alien abduction' -- even if they are indirectly related in some way we don't understand -- so it becomes rather difficult to choose any one "way" to "interpret or present" the "UFOlogy" phenomenon. There's just so damn much stuff IN the genre. How to break it down?

edit on 27-1-2014 by RedCairo because: typo

How to break it down, this whole spectrum of Fortean topics? Systematically. JV showed us the way, there. If you'll allow me to plant my tongue in cheek again, it's possible we are dealing with the whole basket of Nephilim, Annunaki, space jellyfish, saurian hollow earth dwellers, and ET as well, all at once. I am not wedded to any one of those ideas. But certainly the space jellyfish don't seem to present the same way as the apparent nuts-and-bolts craft or the grey abductions. Not even remotely similar. I suspect in the case of space jellies we'll discover an entirely natural origin for the phenomenon, such as self-organizing plasma showing characteristics of lifeforms, which are now being investigated in labs.

reply to ultimafule

My current model indicates that Vallee was referring to techniques one would call magical or occult. He hesitates being more specific because he fears being completely ousted from the fringes of academia and having his entire body of work tainted by admitting that magicks is how to deal with UFOs and space critters.

Maybe so.

Or maybe it's like the reason celebrities do not talk about stalkers. Not a word. Not a single word. You cannot say that you don't care, or you do, or you're not afraid, or you are, because no matter WHAT you say, an obsessed stalker will find a way to "twist and interpret this within his worldview of his obsession" and use it for even MORE stalker behavior.

Maybe it's just that no matter what he says, the more he says the more it can be distorted.

The "I don't want everyone to think I'm insane" might matter too, however, I'm pretty sure the guy is serious about his concern on para-government involvement and there is good reason to be concerned for one's longevity (tragic disease and accidents you know) there.

A magician manipulates invisible (occult) forces. A non-magician is manipulated by occult forces.

I think everyone is a living breathing character of the fabric of so-called occult ("not visible" "forces" (energy), and is as influenced by them as we are by what we eat and breathe and see because they're part of us.

I don't think being a practicing magician or magickian (or choose a term) makes one immune. Hopefully, if said magician pays a lot of attention to the detail of what's in his head (magical journals are priceless), he will just be more "aware" of the influences. Some can be manipulated. Most need to be surfed or tango'd with, not commanded. Seduce it to influence it.

The UFO phenom represents an occult force that has been manipulating human culture for hundreds of thousands of years, if not since the beginning.

I think I agree, except that I think for nearly a century we've had a whole second layer of UFO (and 'contactee') phenomena which represents a more terrestrial force, probably. And that "eons long" ufo-related set of stuff may still be from a lot of different sources.

I personally think the biggest danger is that we keep even phrasing this as if it is a THING. As if there is one source or intent or group involved.

I sometimes think we are just a noob to the Bangkok market. Some people think it's magical and some people get mugged and some people can't figure out what the hell they ate for lunch but they could swear that was cat fur on the side. Anybody trying to make a "them" or "it" out of the experience would be lost. There's a whole world -- universe, in this case -- of sources and intentions and technologies and they cover the whole spectrum, just like there is every kind of people and market stall and experience when you step out into a giant chaotic market.

Like maybe humans are just used to living in this sweet little inured reality paradigm where we're all alone and safe in mama's lap, and then we start seeing little signs of other things, and we freak the hell out. Rather than just realizing that it's a big universe. Even our language like 'visitors' and 'aliens' implies a whole lot about "them" which is probably untrue at least in some cases and which usually, eventually, implies a very singular or limited number of 'sources' for this. I think there are many and that this is the primary confusion point.

Many contactees have been involved with occult/esoteric/spiritual groups.

True. I think sometimes that this gets reversed in assumed causality though. Like it is often assumed that these affiliations have affected if not created the accounts or perspectives that the contactees had. But really I think maybe those things exist for other reasons.

For example, I had a long string of wild experience during which I among other things (several far more weird than this) joined an occult order. (Now granted, I'm officially inactive and never went anywhere with it, and can say little other than many people were kind and I wish everyone well, but still, I was briefly and barely part of it.) Later on, when I heard there was some 'logical, practical, measurable' way of actually practicing psi, and I thought there was finally a sensible way of approaching what to me had only been spontaneous thus far, I got to know and interacted with for some years lots of people related to remote viewing, some of whom were former intelligence officers. And before all that, I spent some time with a friend/teacher who taught me jungian/shamanic-style meditation work, some metaphysics 101 (I was a skeptic back then so everything was new), and sometimes she would 'channel' (more energy than words). (And I had zero belief in this until I saw the change in her face, and the electronic interference when I tried to record it.)

Now I figure anybody who wants to tear open any account I have that is esoteric has plenty of ammo; I have technically been associated with channelers, mystics, ceremonial magick, and intelligence people. Good god, I should be locked in a closet at this point, don't believe anything you hear is what I'd be thinking of myself, objectively... but all of those associations came because I was attempting to understand my own experience, trying to find someone, anyone and anything, who had some clue what the hell was going on in my mind and body. I was a little stupid sometimes, people acted like they knew everything, and they seemed familiar with a lot of stuff that was totally new and mindblowing to me, and they had official terms and labels, and it made my eyes wide and my brain empty apparently, I was like "wow, they know everything!" So in the end, I spent a lot of time and then basically had to go through de-indoctrinating myself from the crap that other people tried to stuff into me, because I was so genuinely interested, and so unparanoid, that I was pretty gullible in some respects. You might say it is much like the inorganics, they train you to be one of them and then you have to escape, and barely, when they feel you turn on them because you've realized it was a labrinthian trap all along. Hmmn, actually a lot like that...

Then it ruins your reputation for the rest of all time because you had even peripheral exposure to such people or groups in the first place. The only thing all that served to teach me, mostly, is now the main quote on one of my blogs: "The only tenets of truth I hold are based on personal experience." It comes through my inside or it is not part of my Truth. Of course, the inside is able to be affected by many things also... but at least it's mine.

Has the control system theory been tested? I think so. All these alien channelers seem to be getting the same messages. Is it because that's what they want to hear? Why is Ashtar in The Sacred Book of Abra-melin the Mage? WHy do I have such a hard time organizing my thought here on ATS?

Is that latter question part of the conspiracy? :-)

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Listen. Because you pmed me I'll let you drag me back into this thread..but I do not want to derail gutsey thread. Im very very windy and I tend to not 'show all intervening steps' but I'm 100% capable of doing so if you are willing to wade through a great deal of material.

If you think you can ask ultra precise questions that are 100% on topic I'm game.
Feel free to be brutal and really rude if that is a necessary element to 'get to the truth'.
But if gutsey rolls his eyebrows at either of
us I'm stopping responding again.

BlueMule
No, its not me who is prepared to demonstrate to you. You seem like an open-minded friendly guy and I love your threads. But even open minded guys will exert will when the magician is someone they don't get along with too well, or disagree with.

Just sayin'.

I have both love and much sincere compassion for the one you refer to. I realize he has you convinced. In my opinion you've given him your power. But that person has failed miserably in his behind-the-scenes--and un-requested--attempts to sway me. Batting absolutely ZERO to be honest. Silly "cold readings" that were poorly conceived and dead wrong is the only determination I can come to.

I've starred you more than once, and we've had some incredible discussions on these boards. I'm more on your side than not as regards the UFO phenomenon, but statements like you made above about "demonstrations" is testable. If not you, who? Can't be the batting zero guy.

reply to post by The GUT



Tell me more about this octagon, i'll trade you this pentagon...

BlueMule
Yes I've read James. And Jung, Campbell, Armstrong, Frazer, Eliade, Huston, Kripal, Watts, on and on and on.

No, its not me who is prepared to demonstrate to you. You seem like an open-minded friendly guy and I love your threads. But even open minded guys will exert an opposing will when the magician is someone they don't get along with too well, or disagree with about something important to them.

Just sayin'.

This is a real issue in research such as psi research. It is not coincidental that very often the results of trials echo the belief systems of the people most "in charge." There are a few white papers on this. Dr. Edwin May called it "Decision Augmentation Theory" and this actually plays into a variety of different areas. One is that the subtle details of where/when/how an experience is set up by a leader (say the scientist) is subtly psi itself, essentially to draw subjects that will overall play out the belief systems of the leader.

Doing viewing (psi work) when the 'leader' is a skeptic is a challenge; it is a choice of "which is to be master" as CS Lewis once wrote (in Alice in Wonderland), and in the early days of RV research it was called various things including telepathic overlay, but this is also indirectly (or directly, depending) related to the sheep/goats effect as you referenced.

What some don't know about the S/G effect is it's really damn interesting. Like for example, it seems to indicate that people may experience as data for psi targets what they get the most psychosocial reward from. So if they hugely admire psychic-X, and that's the data HE got, they are likely to get it; even if they didn't know he got it; even if they didn't find that out until 5 years later; if you for a moment disregard time entirely, and just leave what "emotionally matters" to people, you find that their data clearly correlates to that. New viewers will get anything that is psi because they're so damn amazed to see it, so pieces of their life and tonight's dinner will be in there; what I call "social viewers" will get data that other viewers on the same target get, because their primary interest is social, and their bonding with the others means more than being objectively accurate.

This is why in self-development of that art, much like in some occult studies practices, you have to decide what you want your belief system to be and what you want to "matter" to you and focus obsessively on that and on nothing else. So for example it doesn't matter how good, great, amazing, fascinating, or correct something is; it matters whether it matches the feedback for the science trial you're doing. That's completely different. Working with the police, it doesn't matter as much what is objectively accurate; it matters what might 'spark' an idea or intuition in the officers using the data or "be useful" -- even if your data is somewhat wrong, they may find the answer from it. You're viewing the target but you're doing it with the carrier wave of viewing the needs of the people implementing your data. Tasking has to take all this into account and so knowing the viewers and knowing their personal focus and reward system is pretty important. And this is a digression obviously, but I'm boring everyone with it to get to a larger point, here:

This may have something to do with the spontaneous experiences that people have that we relate to UFOlogy; even skeptics, like anyone else, are completely affected by this as research shows. (Skeptics tend to fall into two broad groups at times: those singularly incompetent at psi, which would explain why they so disbelieved in it; Ingo Swann had some funny comments on that; and those who were competent and did everything in inverse [psychology thinks 'failing' is doing badly, but actually in psi research it's still a statistical anomaly, just in the opposite direction] so they got the result they 'believed in' even while demonstrating the ability they didn't, humorously.

I've come to think that human experience across the board is actually reflected in the sheep/goats -- and the decision augmentation theory -- stuff, and that much like the mind-blowing Local Sidereal Time factor, this is not actually much to do with psi, but rather, something to do with "human performance," that psi research tripped over merely because they are so ongoing desperate to find elements which are repeatable/predictable.

Adding, because I had to go AFK fast and didn't really finish:

This kind of ties into the topic of the control system even directly because it implies that perhaps what is -- eventually, not necessarily immediately -- most psychosocially meaningful to us may be what we are more likely to experience. Maybe.

Why did my buddy get an anal probe when the 'others' were teaching me star systems? Why were the blondes chasing me down and kicking my ass when the greys were making another girl feel like family? Why was I having programmed dreams about paramil jackboots killing someone for mentioning the CIA when my other buddy was facing oversized gargoyle looking things that felt 'Evil'? Why was my experience merely trivia in the middle of a huge spectrum of experience of every imaginable kind while some people have absolutely nothing but that missing time?

I think that the biggest "missing element" our species has is any decent understanding of our own species. I think there is a lot we could learn about things if we had better data, and better data would be hugely impacted by actually understanding more about our variable of the equation. We are not very far on the road to understanding a damn thing about anything or anybody else. But we actually do have a chance to learn more about ourselves. That seems like a good road to me.

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

Listen. Because you pmed me I'll let you drag me back into this thread..but I do not want to derail gutsey thread. Im very very windy and I tend to not 'show all intervening steps' but I'm 100% capable of doing so if you are willing to wade through a great deal of material.

If you think you can ask ultra precise questions that are 100% on topic I'm game.
Feel free to be brutal and really rude if that is a necessary element to 'get to the truth'.
But if gutsey rolls his eyebrows at either of
us I'm stopping responding again.

I responded to your pm, I was not trying to coerce you into anything and if that is the impression that I gave, I apologise.

Ultra precise, huh? I'm going to mull on that...besides this side of the Atlantic, it's bedtime, I shall therefore sleep on it.

No need to be tense, I'll be gentle, just not gentile

RedCairo
I got to know and interacted with for some years lots of people related to remote viewing, some of whom were former intelligence officers. And before all that, I spent some time with a friend/teacher who taught me jungian/shamanic-style meditation work, some metaphysics 101 (I was a skeptic back then so everything was new), and sometimes she would 'channel' (more energy than words). (And I had zero belief in this until I saw the change in her face, and the electronic interference when I tried to record it.)

Now I figure anybody who wants to tear open any account I have that is esoteric has plenty of ammo; I have technically been associated with channelers, mystics, ceremonial magick, and intelligence people.

You and ultimafule are both badass and fascinating, imo. I also think y'all are closer to the same page than you might think.

So: PLEASE elaborate on these intelligence folk and how you perceive them. Purty please, Madame.

Have any of them been mentioned here, btw? I'm begging! Hug!

Kantzveldt
reply to post by The GUT

 

Tell me more about this octagon, i'll trade you this pentagon...

Only if we get to tangle for three rounds. I crush on beauty mixed with big brains and big hearts. The trifecta of "B" alliteration. I can deliver if that matters. DOH...did I say that? Hug. Don't kill me, K?

The GUT

BlueMule
No, its not me who is prepared to demonstrate to you. You seem like an open-minded friendly guy and I love your threads. But even open minded guys will exert will when the magician is someone they don't get along with too well, or disagree with.

Just sayin'.

I have both love and much sincere compassion for the one you refer to. I realize he has you convinced. In my opinion you've given him your power. But that person has failed miserably in his behind-the-scenes--and un-requested--attempts to sway me. Batting absolutely ZERO to be honest.

I've starred you more than once, and we've had some incredible discussions on these boards. I'm more on your side than not as regards the UFO phenomenon, but statements like you made above about "demonstrations" is testable. If not you, who? Can't be the batting zero guy.

This might be a perfect microcosm of the entire UFO enigma, but here the shoe is on the other foot. This is exactly the way the trickster works. Evidence for some people, and for others it's a no-show. Seemingly testable and verifiable, and yet elusive at just the wrong moment. Or the right moment, depending on your perspective. Never enough to end the debate, never so little as to let it all go away.

Why does Vallee hesitate to be "too specific?"

Well if he's talking "inter dimensional", that smacks of ghosts and demons and religion. How can he mention that and still stay in the room with the "scientific" analysts?

Its not a matter of revealing too many secrets, just that one.

Oh, he "communes" with the dead thru channelers.

TILT, as far as the UFO genre goes.

We're so predisposed with our "beliefs".

intrptr

Well if he's talking "inter dimensional", that smacks of ghosts and demons and religion. How can he mention that and still stay in the room with the "scientific" analysts?

As opposed to "ET" scientists? Haha. Btw, it smacks only of mythological/historical reference and makes no determination as to "species."

Oh, he "communes" with the dead thru channelers.

TILT, as far as the UFO genre goes.

Vallee communes with channelers? Maybe I misunderstand?

We're so predisposed with our "beliefs".

Good thing you were inclusive enough to include yourself with, "We're.

Talk about control systems

Getting back to Valles analogy of what he sees as an instance of a control system

“Suppose you're walking through the desert and you see a stone that looks as though it was painted white. A thousand yards later you see another stone of similar appearance. You stop and consider the matter. Either you can forget it or - if you're like me - you can pick up the stone and move it a few feet. If suddenly a bearded character steps out from behind a rock and demands to know why you moved his marker, then you know you've found a control system

It’s not hard to deduce that Vallee wants to mess around with whatever the visitors are doing.

If we assume, conspiratorially, as I do hypothetically at least, that Vallee is giving us hints on what the control system he knows ( the US GOV for instance) has done about this, such as maybe the MIB phenom, or the disinformation campaigns, then we can reap rich rewards imo. Indeed, gain some insight into the affair despite the brick wall that is preventing us from seeing the truth.

Vallee no doubt is more than just one opining on this topic as I keep emphasizing that this guy IS AN INSIDER.

It may be that the Gov did perform a kind of Vallee type intrusion into the “feedback loop” The MIB actions and the disinformation activities are two examples of this

Consequently they may have been contacted by the alien intelligence in some way since those operations: the aliens said to them in no uncertain terms: BACK THE ___ OFF!

So they have since backed off and taken a passive stance in respect to the phenomenon, i.e. the Gov lack of interest in formal investigations of this matter.



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