We do NOT live in a police state! Please move on.

reply to post by projectbane


Use the constitution.

Then compare it to our current system of law.

those are your parameters.

reply to post by Sremmos80


The reason I posted is because on page one of the thread there are people flat out claiming the US is a police state. They didn't say we are moving towards it or the foundation is set but they claim it is here now.

I had no idea that some people thought that, and I know better than to even try to argue with them.



I am not even arguing that some things aren't screwed up in fact as I said in my first post I know they are.

I am just a bit shocked to find out that some people think that this country as it is right now is a police state, and that is pretty much all I was commenting on. I guess it is all a matter of perspective.

Sremmos80

projectbane

Sremmos80

projectbane

MOSTwanted

rojectbane
reply tupeurl=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread993504/pg8#pid17442531]post by jrod[/url]

 

It just seems to me that people have been scared into having this state of mind (but not by any credible source or reason)....maybe watching that stupid program....what's its called oh yeah "fox news".

edit on 18-1-2014 by projectbane because: (no reason given)

People are scared because every time most people deal with a cop they are getting billed for services they don't want, have to spend a whole bunch of money on an attorney and many poor people plead guilty to jacked up charges that don't fit the offense and only benefit the state corporation and not the community just so they don't have to sit in jail for months. Count yours self as lucky. Some places, like where I live in Colorado, the justice department is run by a bunch of over ambitious, greedy bureacratical zealous unconstitutional pigs that don't care about due process or their oaths and the law, instead just making money off non crimes like traffic tickets which you don't need a license to travel on public roadways but they twist the definitions of everything same with taxes to make it sound like you have to pay them to exercise any rights, When that is fraud. They also insanely trump up charges and will find a way to llegally screw your life up u any way they can and are merciless in their tactics because they know they can scare u into a deal every time. They have nothing to lose in the process and are never held accountable and they are in business to make money nit to protect the slaves. The system only breeds smarter criminals and doesn't reduce crime mainly aggravate it by taking more money away from society and acting like the victim cuz all they do is sue your assailant for a bunch of money and u the real victim don't get a dime

You cant say MOST people who deal with COPS have a bad experience. How do you know MOST people???? Do you have this in hard copy or is this opinion?

How do you know most people have had GOOD experiences with cops? How do you not see that is the SAME logic? Do you have that all cops are good in a "hard copy"? You are allowed to you use your personal experiences to back up your claim, but if some one else uses theirs they are just a no good criminal that is just lying at this point...

No I have very good reasons for saying that. Mine are from professional personal opinion. I am not saying that others can not, but its easy for people on ATS to come on here and derail a thread by just saying it "happened to me".

After all, i created this thread and therefore asked for full explanations as I knew that most on here could NOT do that based on their ineptitude of knowing any real facts. They prefer the band wagon and its fits my theory approach!!

So there has been countless people on here that have told you personal experiences, my self included. And all you ever have to say to that is that we just have a "world against me" attitude. So I'd say we all have just as good reasons as do you. Unless you know us personally and have seen what we say happened different then we say. Then you have no merit to say our experiences mean less to the issue then your own

Not countless (more exaggeration there) actually. If I could be bothered I would count and it would be fairly simple. Not a huge number.

But none of you have cared to share the "experiences" you all just frivolously claim as your counter argument to MY thread!

I have not heard anything different from what you hear in a playground....."he did it, NO he did it" No explanation of what "HE" did.

projectbane

onequestion
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

I know Grim but thats not what im saying.

Im saying compare the current state of the US to what the idea of the US is and define what a police state is from that and not comparing it to another police state.

Projectban please addres what i have presented in my last few post please.

WHAT??? "compare the stat of the US to the idea of the US"

Idea is massively subjective, 310 million people with different ideas of what the US should be, many political groups with their ideas, and the countless religions with theirs. There is NOT just ONE ideal or idea that would be significantly more important that another. The greatness of the USA is that MANY ideals are brought together and interlinked with many different aspects of cultures from all over the world. To use the comment you did just makes a mockery and simplifies this AWESOME country!!

Live Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness..... The patriot act NDAA 100 mil constitution zones violate all 3
Hows that massively subjective?

onequestion
reply to post by projectbane

 

Use the constitution.

Then compare it to our current system of law.

those are your parameters.

The constitution was written in a time when what they had in mind could work. Time changes ideals because thing are not manageable in a tech savvy society!! All whom want their voices heard and their demands met.

80% of the world are religious. According to stats. 500 years ago it was fine for a man to bed a girl of 10 - 12. Muslims have been doing that for centuries too, from when a female is able to menstruate.

However, that had to change as time change. People don't think that is acceptable today!! But they dont disband religon they change it to adopt societies needs.

The constitution is one of the greatest documents ever written, but it was meant for a different time, some things need adjustments.

reply to post by projectbane


The constitution was written in mind of keeping the USA out of the hands of democratic rule.

It was designed to use congress to protect the rights of the individual from the rule of the majority which is now not happening.

Do you really want to change that system?

projectbane

Sremmos80

projectbane

Sremmos80

projectbane

MOSTwanted

rojectbane
reply tupeurl=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread993504/pg8#pid17442531]post by jrod[/url]

 

It just seems to me that people have been scared into having this state of mind (but not by any credible source or reason)....maybe watching that stupid program....what's its called oh yeah "fox news".

edit on 18-1-2014 by projectbane because: (no reason given)

People are scared because every time most people deal with a cop they are getting billed for services they don't want, have to spend a whole bunch of money on an attorney and many poor people plead guilty to jacked up charges that don't fit the offense and only benefit the state corporation and not the community just so they don't have to sit in jail for months. Count yours self as lucky. Some places, like where I live in Colorado, the justice department is run by a bunch of over ambitious, greedy bureacratical zealous unconstitutional pigs that don't care about due process or their oaths and the law, instead just making money off non crimes like traffic tickets which you don't need a license to travel on public roadways but they twist the definitions of everything same with taxes to make it sound like you have to pay them to exercise any rights, When that is fraud. They also insanely trump up charges and will find a way to llegally screw your life up u any way they can and are merciless in their tactics because they know they can scare u into a deal every time. They have nothing to lose in the process and are never held accountable and they are in business to make money nit to protect the slaves. The system only breeds smarter criminals and doesn't reduce crime mainly aggravate it by taking more money away from society and acting like the victim cuz all they do is sue your assailant for a bunch of money and u the real victim don't get a dime

You cant say MOST people who deal with COPS have a bad experience. How do you know MOST people???? Do you have this in hard copy or is this opinion?

How do you know most people have had GOOD experiences with cops? How do you not see that is the SAME logic? Do you have that all cops are good in a "hard copy"? You are allowed to you use your personal experiences to back up your claim, but if some one else uses theirs they are just a no good criminal that is just lying at this point...

No I have very good reasons for saying that. Mine are from professional personal opinion. I am not saying that others can not, but its easy for people on ATS to come on here and derail a thread by just saying it "happened to me".

After all, i created this thread and therefore asked for full explanations as I knew that most on here could NOT do that based on their ineptitude of knowing any real facts. They prefer the band wagon and its fits my theory approach!!

So there has been countless people on here that have told you personal experiences, my self included. And all you ever have to say to that is that we just have a "world against me" attitude. So I'd say we all have just as good reasons as do you. Unless you know us personally and have seen what we say happened different then we say. Then you have no merit to say our experiences mean less to the issue then your own

Not countless (more exaggeration there) actually. If I could be bothered I would count and it would be fairly simple. Not a huge number.

But none of you have cared to share the "experiences" you all just frivolously claim as your counter argument to MY thread!

I have not heard anything different from what you hear in a playground....."he did it, NO he did it" No explanation of what "HE" did.

I didn't know we're keeping track of when people exaggerated, you would defiantly be winning if we all had. I told you my experience, so that disproves the "none of you" right there. And your playground statement makes no sense what so ever...

Grimpachi
reply to post by Sremmos80

 

The reason I posted is because on page one of the thread there are people flat out claiming the US is a police state. They didn't say we are moving towards it or the foundation is set but they claim it is here now.

I had no idea that some people thought that, and I know better than to even try to argue with them.



I am not even arguing that some things aren't screwed up in fact as I said in my first post I know they are.

I am just a bit shocked to find out that some people think that this country as it is right now is a police state, and that is pretty much all I was commenting on. I guess it is all a matter of perspective.

Laws in place are not perspective.....maybe the scale of said police state is the difference of perspective

onequestion
reply to post by projectbane

 

The constitution was written in mind of keeping the USA out of the hands of democratic rule.

It was designed to use congress to protect the rights of the individual from the rule of the majority which is now not happening.

Do you really want to change that system?

YES, the rights of the individual must not supersede the needs of the many! Libertarianism is selfish and all about what "i want". Society CAN not function like that today! Back then Sharia law was not a problem for America, but are you know saying that they should be allowed to proceed because they want their little piece of individualism?

Individualism impacts the rest of society, but the individual never cares about that.

I guess the million dollar question is this:

Is 'police state' defined as one would define pregnancy, all or nothing?
Or is the definition more like murder, with escalating degrees of seriousness?

OP, I would submit that your opening premise is invalid, you seem to require that to have a police state, the tyranny must rival some of the most repressive regimes in modern history. In your argument, anything short of that doesn't qualify. I reject your definition, and would ask you this:
what would be the line...the conditions required to make a nation a police state?

I contend that tyranny begins in the lightest shades of gray. Every infamous police state didn't turn into one overnight. They take root slowly. Carefully.
Laws are woven in ambiguous language so that they could be used on citizens.
Media is used to control information and disseminate propaganda.
Homeland security forces are built up in protective and justifiable guises, employing the weak willed and power hungry.
Programs of citizen reporting are promoted, so that when people finally try to rise up it will be their neighbors that undermine the effort.
Information is amassed on everyone, to be used at the pleasure of the regime.
I could go on and on, but I think my point is clear.

We, the United States, are a police state. Fortunately this tyranny hasn't matured, but every single item i listed is already reality in America. I don't need to see re-education camps in my country to realize what is happening.

_____________________________________
PS: Longest post to write ever, b/c I got lost in youtube, watching an endless stream of phone videos of cops abusing citizens.

reply to post by projectbane


Can't help it because the topic is a good one for discussion but I have to ask, why are you so mad? It's funny how condescending you are. Your argument loses validity when you can't discuss the issue without all the childish put downs. Actually, keep going with them. Like I said, it's funny - just not funny in the way you may think. Carry on.

CJ

reply to post by blamethegreys


Read my responses on the last 3 pages to "discover" parameters to use.

Oh and projectbane i hope you saw my apology for my opening post in this thread, i am actually now enjoying too btw.

ColoradoJens
reply to post by projectbane

 

Can't help it because the topic is a good one for discussion but I have to ask, why are you so mad? It's funny how condescending you are. Your argument loses validity when you can't discuss the issue without all the childish put downs. Actually, keep going with them. Like I said, it's funny - just not funny in the way you may think. Carry on.

CJ

I cant help to think that is where 25 of those flags came from haha

reply to post by blamethegreys


A good video on youtube is by Alex Jones . He is a little hard to take but he puts actual video at your disposal to see the heavy handed Police State 4 and Police State 2000 for your own assessment of the situation .

OtherSideOfTheCoin
SnF OP

I get this all the time "dont you know we live in a police state"

it annoys the hell out of me because we quite clearly do not, many try to depict the Orwellian nightmare as our new reality again its totally nosecone

I really dont have much more to add other than to say that i agree with you.

Feel free to add more to the convo if feel it warranted a star and flag from you. No one on the thread now is saying anything about Orwellian America as of today. Many of us showed rights and due process being stripped from citizens. Would you like to add how that doesn't fall under some qualifications of a police state?

reply to post by blamethegreys


Please respond to my post im interested in your view on what im saying.

reply to post by SimonPeter


Alex jones doesn't carry a lot of weight around here

reply to post by onequestion


I got that he was agreeing with you, or at least with the idea of a emerging police state. Did i miss something?

reply to post by Sremmos80


Not because of the content of any of his message because the dude brings a lot to the table, its just that half of what he brings to the table is insane.

Actually in the last year ive noticed a massive change in how he presents himself on his show its much more professional.

But try adressing the content thats he right about on the show and easily refuting it like you refute his Personality.

reply to post by Sremmos80


Oh my bad i misread what he said, no i see it to now thanks lol.