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We do NOT live in a police state! Please move on.

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posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 03:34 AM
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reply to post by projectbane
 


Yup, and i wasnt making those references towards you just trying to capture an idea by generlizing hot topics in the current political conversation(or recent).

It is highly subjective, but the real point is this, if any of your fellow Americans feel like its a police state you should hear them out and try to understand why. Not to see if you should think so or not but to see why they think so and you know what, they might be right something they had happen to them or something they are interested in may easily be being infringed on, and maybe we should work together to change it for them, not for yourself, but so that everyone can have the same feelings you do.

And what the hell, if we cooperate how the hell we going to get anything done?
edit on 20141America/ChicagoquAmerica/Chicago0031352014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 03:37 AM
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BanTv

projectbane

hopenotfeariswhatweneed
reply to post by projectbane
 


you do realise you are on a conspiracy site ridiculing people because of the thoughts they adhere to.....just because people do not agree with you does not make them wrong...here is an idea try and debate people without condecending them......you must really find it difficult making friends ...maybe you should get a dog and teach it to play fetch


OHHH i get it now...www.abovetopsecret.com..., you got arrested for being an all round contemptuous "person" and now blame the system for your problems. See always a reason why people have a problem ALWAYS caused by themselves.
You sound like a person who got what they deserved.

So me get a dog you said? Well maybe you should, after all they don't hit back and as you were stopped from seeing your children, a dog might be the way to go!! Seems the system works!!
edit on 18-1-2014 by projectbane because: (no reason given)



projectbane

hopenotfeariswhatweneed
reply to post by projectbane
 


you do realise you are on a conspiracy site ridiculing people because of the thoughts they adhere to.....just because people do not agree with you does not make them wrong...here is an idea try and debate people without condecending them......you must really find it difficult making friends ...maybe you should get a dog and teach it to play fetch


OHHH i get it now...www.abovetopsecret.com..., you got arrested for being an all round contemptuous "person" and now blame the system for your problems. See always a reason why people have a problem ALWAYS caused by themselves.
You sound like a person who got what they deserved.

So me get a dog you said? Well maybe you should, after all they don't hit back and as you were stopped from seeing your children, a dog might be the way to go!! Seems the system works!!
edit on 18-1-2014 by projectbane because: (no reason given)


Low blow indeed. What, you had no response to what he said, so you had to find an old thread he made to bash him? Here's an idea, how about you try to intelligently debate people without being condesending...like he said.

"This is your argument of why you "think" we are in a police state? Well I win then."

You WIN? Most people here try to gain knowledge while debating each other in the process. It's not about winning or losing. You're just an egotistical narcissist trying to make yourself feel better by being soooo much smarter than everyone else. You're doing a poor job I might add.

Do you also frequent animal forums and make threads about how pet ownership=slavery? Or telling them they're all crazy cat ladies?

You really need to humble yourself. This forum isn't about "winning" a debate, it should be more about personal growth and gaining knowledge (which happens in a respectful dialogue with other human beings). You will get neither if you continue thinking you are so high above everyone here. Hell, there are even some people who agree with your position, but your attitude is disgusting.

Please DONT make another thread about how perfect you are and we're idiots. Needing some validation or something? Ok, proceed to ad hom me to death or dig up something I've said in the past. It actually saddens me that this entire post is going to go in one ear and out the other (so to speak). You really need some humility. If you're like this in real life, I can promise you that people close to you secretely think you're a d-bag. That, or you don't have anyone close to you. If that is the case, learn some humility and that will change.

I wasn't going to post anything, but that low blow really got to me. I don't think you even realize or care how rude that was, and I didn't see you apologize to the other member.

Also, how is it that your word is supposed to be taken as support for your arguments ('nothing has ever happened to me or anyone I know'), but when someone else shares a personal story you basically say 'yeah well what proof do you have'? You just want to argue for arguments sake. So you're a disgruntled, overworked prison guard and this is your outlet? Please don't become a serial killer


It is because it is ignorant people like you who can not read or understand basic things. 1) I am not or ever have been working for the prison system (already stated this in previous post, learn to read). 2) I have the right to attack back when attacked by people who show a complete lack of respect to their country and the people who protect it on a daily basis. Police work incredibly hard to protect the public at large. IF there is a few errors in judgement then that is something that can be looked into but to write of a whole "section of US employees" is downright disgraceful and pathetic.

Most people who encounter the police have more than likely brought it upon themselves in one way or another. They do not just randomly pick people to arrest or "harrass" as many claim. Mistakes are made, but in the grand scheme of things it the best we have to work with right now!
edit on 19-1-2014 by projectbane because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 03:48 AM
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onequestion
reply to post by projectbane
 


Yup, and i wasnt making those references towards you just trying to capture an idea by generlizing hot topics in the current political conversation(or recent).

It is highly subjective, but the real point is this, if any of your fellow Americans feel like its a police state you should hear them out and try to understand why. Not to see if you should think so or not but to see why they think so and you know what, they might be right something they had happen to them or something they are interested in may easily be being infringed on, and maybe we should work together to change it for them, not for yourself, but so that everyone can have the same feelings you do.

And what the hell, if we cooperate how the hell we going to get anything done?
edit on 20141America/ChicagoquAmerica/Chicago0031352014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)


I know you were not referencing me but I was just offering you where I stand being my thread. I have listened to what these people have said but a small section of the conspiracy community who have a negative outlook on all kinds of authority is not going to garnish unbiased results.

I do not sit on the same side of the fence as most of these people. I do NOT see this particular topic as one that can be openly discussed without people getting all annoyed by my views. I can not sit by and watch a site like this allow people to tarnish a absolutely needed service without someone defending it. They are not used to someone defending the Police, as they all sit within arms reach of each other opinion wise. They view it from their own disgruntled view of life and the world today. Read their stories on other threads or introductions and you will see that many of the poster on this thread have trouble with things such as employment, partners and children, monetary issues with the banks, following authority, being productive members of society, paying bills and education.

So, the majority have the same things in common, life troubles, which I doubt many will take personal blame for as its easier to blame others. The issue of a police state here belittles the humans in other countries where they actually do have that firmly and undeniably in place and their hardships are made pointless by these folk!

You seem to be quite a level headed person, maybe that could rub off on some of the others?


edit on 19-1-2014 by projectbane because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 03:51 AM
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reply to post by projectbane
 


Right, i get what your saying.

Dont waste all your energy fighting the dragon. You know the hero story where he fights the mythical beast threatening the princess?

I have after years of debating a topic found that it serves a better purpose if you can find a meaningful and engaging group of conversations in a thread like this and stick them and ignore the monkeys.

Just advice.

ADD - There is a ton of members here who can actually hold a decent debate without making it emotional and personal, they do tend to shy away from the runaway threads that end up as a OP bashing fest.
edit on 20141America/ChicagoquAmerica/Chicago4531532014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 04:02 AM
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onequestion
reply to post by projectbane
 


Right, i get what your saying.

Dont waste all your energy fighting the dragon. You know the hero story where he fights the mythical beast threatening the princess?

I have after years of debating a topic found that it serves a better purpose if you can find a meaningful and engaging group of conversations in a thread like this and stick them and ignore the monkeys.

Just advice.



I do understand we all have our views and that is what make AMERICA great. The freedom to have these views (funny enough another reason we are not in a police state). I just happen to be very much pro-police. So much so that maybe my view, like their can be biased.

However, let me place a outrageous situation out there. Its extreme but it is only to make a point.

Any of these guys who hate the police and have stated so should think about this.

Imagine being at work. Someone calls you and you recognize the voice as someone you had a run in months before. He calls you from his car which he tells you is parked outside your house. He just saw your wife and child getting out and tells you that he is now going to follow them into your home and torture them. After realizing he is telling the truth, most people even those who HATE the cops would immediately leave work in a rush and panic and at the same time call...... THE POLICE!!

Now, why is that they would do that if they can not stand, trust or want anything to do with the police. I just wonder whether that double standard has any bearing on their view.

Now, i know some that will say "i wouldnt call the police I would call so and so", you know to avoid having to admit that they would in a situation like that.

The police are there for that reason. And that is what they do daily, face suspects who are armed and dangerous. Sometimes its not perfect, but what is?


edit on 19-1-2014 by projectbane because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 04:09 AM
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reply to post by projectbane
 


Basically whats happening from my point of view is your struggling with peoples ideas whos ideas have a self serving purpose. They arent willing to look objectively at both sides of the debate to understand where your coming from or invite the possability of themselves being wrong. Its not about the truth its about something else i dont fully understand, most likely ego, seems to be the case with everything else or fear.

It serves their purpose in life to repeat this view that they read from a source they trust or heard from a person they care about and by them subscribing to this idea the idea is serving a purpose to them by helping them maintain some sort of relationship with something they are afraid to let go of. I dont even have any idea what it could be, maybe it disturbs their political equillibrium to much from to change their entire way of thinking.

Most people dont want to embark down a path of discovery and truth. Most actually want to stay in their comfort zones and just stick to what they know.

Its really hard to get through to people like this, hell you may even be one, im not saying thats so im just saying.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 04:12 AM
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onequestion
reply to post by projectbane
 


Basically whats happening from my point of view is your struggling with peoples ideas whos ideas have a self serving purpose. They arent willing to look objectively at both sides of the debate to understand where your coming from or invite the possability of themselves being wrong. Its not about the truth its about something else i dont fully understand, most likely ego, seems to be the case with everything else or fear.

It serves their purpose in life to repeat this view that they read from a source they trust or heard from a person they care about and by them subscribing to this idea the idea is serving a purpose to them by helping them maintain some sort of relationship with something they are afraid to let go of. I dont even have any idea what it could be, maybe it disturbs their political equillibrium to much from to change their entire way of thinking.

Most people dont want to embark down a path of discovery and truth. Most actually want to stay in their comfort zones and just stick to what they know.

Its really hard to get through to people like this, hell you may even be one, im not saying thats so im just saying.





You may of just hit the nail on the head..so too speak. We are all guilty of that to some degree.

As they say, the truth can hurt.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 04:15 AM
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reply to post by projectbane
 


Oh yeah, it takes a bigger set of balls to change your worldview then it does to get into a fight.

Its hard for people to admit they were wrong let alone open themselves up to an idea they dont understand. Fear based responses. You really gotta make the choice in your mind and tell youself that its time to choose to obey the truth and not the ego and the lies.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 04:18 AM
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reply to post by projectbane
 


I can read thank you. I edited my post as soon as I saw that comment. Check it out now. You're extremely biased thinking that people are only abused or harmed if they do something wrong. I've had many small encounters with the law (traffic violations and such) and have always been extremely respectful. Therefore I haven't been beat to death. If you do love this country though, you should agree that someone should be free to have a slight attitude with the law (or be a smart-ass), without being tasered, beaten, or shot to death. I guess it just depends on our definition of what's 'wrong' (for the citizen to do). Then again, there really have been plenty of times where someone has done absolutely nothing to deserve the abuse they receive.

I never thought of this angle before until reading the following thread. Maybe roids is an issue: officer roid rage



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by onequestion
 





TextBasically whats happening from my point of view is your struggling with peoples ideas whos ideas have a self serving purpose. They arent willing to look objectively at both sides of the debate to understand where your coming from or invite the possability of themselves being wrong. Its not about the truth its about something else i dont fully understand, most likely ego, seems to be the case with everything else or fear.





Its really hard to get through to people like this, hell you may even be one, im not saying thats so im just saying.


It's ok. You can say it.

CJ



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 01:27 PM
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projectbane
[Imagine being at work. Someone calls you and you recognize the voice as someone you had a run in months before. He calls you from his car which he tells you is parked outside your house. He just saw your wife and child getting out and tells you that he is now going to follow them into your home and torture them. After realizing he is telling the truth, most people even those who HATE the cops would immediately leave work in a rush and panic and at the same time call...... THE POLICE!!

Now, why is that they would do that if they can not stand, trust or want anything to do with the police. I just wonder whether that double standard has any bearing on their view.


edit on 19-1-2014 by projectbane because: (no reason given)


And you say you are a cop in a large city? Funny, because it's well known many minorities WILL NOT have any dealings with the police even if they are the victim.

It's a strange coincidence you would bring this up now because someone actually DID threaten to kill me - all recorded in the background of a 911 call and in a voicemail. Cops did nothing because this person was connected. I was just saying today I if I had to do it over again it would have been better to be beaten up and risk being killed than calling the cops.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 04:36 PM
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projectbane
I have rebutted every post on here within various posts of mine somewhere on this thread. The trouble is people are not listening at all. If I have missed one from you then ask again. But I will not repeat myself.

My OP is about the "police STATE" we supposedly live in. But we DO not. Not even close, yet!! I think the lack of respect from quite a few people towards the Police is shameful and that maybe better communication between civilians and the Police could be a way forward.


I'll take you up on that offer. I entered the discussion with this post. My aim was to open discussion regarding definitions of police states, and specifically what it takes for a nation to be labeled as such.

I think that your definition is very narrow, and represents a fully matured, repressive tyrannical state. As I discuss in detail, I believe that to NOT label the beginnings of a police state is a very serious mistake. History has shown us time and again the blueprint, and how the monster rises. If we deny that the foundations are being laid America will deserve what she gets.

As for the respecting the good cops, I will restate:
If the good cops held the bad cops accountable there would be MUCH less abuse by LE. That damned blue line is covering for some very dangerous people who have no business wielding power over others. It used to be a policeman was proud to say he never had to draw his gun during his career...Nowadays I get the sense (from my own very limited interactions) that these enforcers look for an excuse TO draw their guns.

Sadly, I can give you a seemingly endless stream of serious police abuse and violence. These stories impact entire communities & regions, sometimes even whole states. The small % of LE that are abusing their power are destroying the credibility and public trust of all LE. The only people left who trust police are whitebread middleclass Americans who haven't had the misfortune of running afoul of a bad cop.
Most modern police act like occupying troops. The public is observed with suspicion and mistrust. We are all criminals, we just haven't gotten caught.
What needs to happen is police need to change. If the enforcers saw the public as good, decent humans 90% of interactions would change. A kid with a knife wouldn't be a lethal threat...it would be a child crying out for help. Someone comatose on the side of the road would be a person in distress, not a potential threat that needs tazing. An old man who won't leave his house would be another human being, scared of change, not a resistant suspect to take down. Once upon a time, the greatest tool police officers had was their minds and their words.

Can you remember the last time a police officer walked towards you or your car without his hand resting on his gun?



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by projectbane
 


I would say we are in a police state. I will admit it can get worse but it is pretty bad. The government tells us who we can and cannot do business with, what we can and cannot say publicly, what we can and cannot share (music, movies, etc), what our children can be taught and not taught. Sounds like a police state to me.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 06:26 PM
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Christian Voice
reply to post by projectbane
 


I would say we are in a police state. I will admit it can get worse but it is pretty bad. The government tells us who we can and cannot do business with, what we can and cannot say publicly, what we can and cannot share (music, movies, etc), what our children can be taught and not taught. Sounds like a police state to me.


Who is stopping you from speaking your mind in public? Who is stopping you from teaching your kids just what you want to teach them? Who is stopping you watching a film or listening to music with friends?



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by Whodathunkdatcheese
 


Inside the 100 mile constitution zone.

Post a super radical post on facebook and really keep at it. Plenty of cases of when someone did that and the FBI showed up. Pretty sure it has been posted in this thread if you read it all. Even cases of taking kids out of their class

NO we are not North Korea, Or Nazi germeny. What we are saying is police states aren't just made overnight. If you are ok with that, then they are not far off form making that zone 3500 miles.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by projectbane
 

We ARE living in an emerging police state..if you or no one you know has experienced anything like i guess you live a very sheltered life. Wake up from your blissful slumber the signs are constant. Stevie Wonder could see it.
Cheers



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 10:18 PM
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As a retired 30+ year Government LEO, I can truly tell you we have now moved the peg towards a libertarian state, in which I welcome.

Why, Because corruption in LE has ALWAYS been there and now with the personal camera, we can document the police like never before and that truly scares them. It only seems that it is getting worse because light, now more than ever, is being shown on them and their lack of training towards the laws they get paid to enforce.

It was bad in the 70's through the 00's thanks to the War on Drugs and the scary terrorist behind every tree but now liberty is winning more than ever.

Yes, we must keep a vigilant eye on the police and Americans are now doing that more than ever with a "Contempt of Cop" attitude. Even when this is perfectly legal it is no less frustrating toward good LEO since now even they need to be perfect on camera.

The problem is this:
All COPS are ALPHAs! They are trained and required to maintain control of all encounters with the public. So naturally most encounters will not be in your advantage if you are skirting the law or if you happen to cross a cop that is missing on their quota for the month. It happens small towns and in the big cities and it happens to those that are less fortunate in status.

Sirric
edit on 19/1/14 by sirric because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by sirric
 


Thank you for adding to the discussion. I know it is the case, but it is still great to hear police officers who welcome the transparency. It's more of you that we need, and less of the bad officers.

We also need a system of accountability that doesn't shelter and protect those who abuse their power. I'm sorry, if someone who we allow to carry that much responsibility abuses that power, there should not be a separate standard. They ought to lose their job. Period. If a bully does it once and gets away with it, they'll do it again.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by sirric
 



All COPS are ALPHAs! They are trained and required to maintain control of all encounters with the public. So naturally most encounters will not be in your advantage if you are skirting the law or if you happen to cross a cop that is missing on their quota for the month. It happens small towns and in the big cities and it happens to those that are less fortunate in status.


I's like to discuss this as well.

In my anecdotal experience, it really feels that aside from a few good apples the LE community is distant and aloof to the general public. I get the safety factor, controlling the situation, etc etc., but can't there be a happy medium? I mentioned one of my pet peeves earlier. Cops are trained to approach everyone with their hand on their gun. The very first message of the interaction is "I have lethal force at my disposal." As a tax paying, law abiding citizen who might have been going 10mph over the speed limit that message doesn't build trust nor security...



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 11:52 PM
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blamethegreys
reply to post by sirric
 


Thank you for adding to the discussion. I know it is the case, but it is still great to hear police officers who welcome the transparency. It's more of you that we need, and less of the bad officers.

We also need a system of accountability that doesn't shelter and protect those who abuse their power. I'm sorry, if someone who we allow to carry that much responsibility abuses that power, there should not be a separate standard. They ought to lose their job. Period. If a bully does it once and gets away with it, they'll do it again.


Yesterday I learned a new word, flaying. Which is the proper word for "skinning" someone alive. I saw this example which made me think about how much corruption we allow to happen:

"According to Herodotus, Sisamnes, a corrupt judge under Cambyses II of Persia, was flayed alive for accepting a bribe."

I wonder how many corrupt officials we would have if the same punishments happened now...



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