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Origin of the Species: Rise of the Reptilian Alien Mythos and Its Unlikely Source

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posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by JadeStar
 


Just had to add that possessive apostrophes (and/or possessed apostates) vex me at times, too... especially after excessive indulgences and before coffee.

I also have a problem with the three period pause... and am seeking treatment... but my problem with horny reptilian space aliens outshines the aforementioned concerns.




posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 01:59 PM
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Fossilized Bones. Plain and simple. The same way we know they existed at all.
reply to post by JadeStar
 


Fossilization of bones is actually quite rare. We actually have an extremely narrow view of ancient life on Earth. So the truth is...if dinosaurs had evolved into a "higher" life form, we would be oblivious to it as most species have not been lucky enough to have died in an area that had just the right conditions for their bones to fossilize.



posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 02:12 PM
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JadeStar


Thank you! And Happy New Year!




Ditto


JadeStar
I love Bowie, Hendrix, Sabbath, a lot of that dinosaur UFO music, but I also like Muse, Janelle Monae, Megadeth, hell, even Lady Gaga.
One can like both dinosauroid UFO music and current stuff ya know?




Of course, just having another tease as I never did get a response to the one I gave you in my thread. I like quite a lot of modern music although some may be a little esoteric, and some less so like Amy
Winehouse, who I find quite astounding. Come to think of it, there's dinosauroid UFO music, but what about reptilian stuff as well?


JadeStar

Thank you. It's one of my pet peeves too but be careful, if you read my stuff close enough you'll notice I make a lot of mistakes with the use of the possessive apostrophe. But like you said, I at least try to use it.



The possessive can be tricky, but a good fake is if you can't work out whether to use it or not, rewrite the sentence so it doesn't require one (try writing double and the far more ambiguous and difficult triple possessive!).
What frustrates me (although I try not to advertise it), are simple contractions without an apostrophe. I find those so cringeworthy that I don't even want to give an example (not that you would need one), as too many either wouldn't notice, or care.

I do enjoy reading your contributions, finding them to be articulate, open minded, and scientific. This thread contains plenty of information I was unaware of, and call me a sadist, but there is a pleasure to be derived from watching those with nothing verifiable, grabbing factoids thinking them facts, adding opinions and attitudes, and then being shot down in a thousand pieces by one simple piece of decent reasoning.

In my opinion, the more hoaxes and rubbish weeded out from UFOlogy, the better, as this will allow the study of anomalous events without a lot of the all too common detritus found in what would never pass in its current state as science.
edit on 1-1-2014 by cuckooold because: trying to make punny puns.



posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by DazDaKing
 


Well said, my friend. However your insight will fall on deaf ears. This person has their mind made up already to the point of denial.

Wish I could give you three stars.



posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 03:44 PM
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JadeStar



When I first heard about the alien or subterranean reptilian/lizard people thing, I thought it was crazy and that someone had watched V one too many times. I doubt the world is run by reptilian lizard people (though it would explain a few things!), but I don't think you can rule out the possibility of reptilians entirely.

If you want to look at alien possibilities, parallel development on another planet might have once seemed unlikely. But there is more and more evidence that the building blocks for life and possibly even microbes may have spread to the earth from meteors, etc. So it's conceivable that life based on the same amino acids, DNA, etc. could develop on more than one world.

Looking at terrestrial possibilities, the info posted about Troodons being as intelligent as crows or rooks and about the increase in brain weight to body weight in Troodons is extremely interesting. There is substantial evidence theropod dinosaurs like Troodon evolved into birds. See for example this post on the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County website.

Birds are one of the animals closest to humans in terms of consciousness and dream states. See the Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness (PDF):


On this day of July 7, 2012, a prominent international group of cognitive neuroscientists, neuropharmacologists, neurophysiologists, neuroanatomists and computational neuroscientists gathered at The University of Cambridge to reassess the neurobiological substrates of conscious experience and related behaviors in human and non-human animals. While comparative research on this topic is naturally hampered by the in ability of non-human animals, and often humans, to clearly and readily communicate about their internal states, the following observations can be stated unequivocally:
...

  • Birds appear to offer, in their behavior, neurophysiology, and neuroanatomy a striking case of parallel evolution of consciousness. Evidence of near human-like levels of consciousness has been most dramatically observed in African grey parrots. Mammalian and avian emotional networks and cognitive microcircuitries appear to be far more homologous than previously thought. Moreover, certain species of birds have been found to exhibit neural sleep patterns similar to those of mammals, including REM sleep and, as was demonstrated in zebra finches, neurophysiological patterns, previously thought to require a mammalian neocortex. Magpies in particular have been shown to exhibit striking similarities to humans, great apes, dolphins, and elephants in studies of mirror self-recognition.



There are examples of species like the Coelacanth that survived to the present day, and unproven but interesting rumors of cryptoids like the Mokele-mbembe or the Colorado 'river dinos.'

But dinosaurs might not even need to have survived extinction 65 million years ago. Birds still have dinosaur genes that are 'unexpressed' (switched off). Scientists have succeeded in switching some of these genes back on, getting birds to grow teeth, tails, scales, etc. Some believe they can recreate dinosaurs this way. See Nature.com - The Dino-Chicken. It seems conceivable that nature could switch dinosaur genes back on under the right conditions.

I try to stay open-minded but not gullible. There are a lot of reptilian stories, and some are pretty interesting and really make you wonder what's going on. I will accept it as an interesting (though very unlikely) possibility, but I would definitely need more proof.

Now as for the possibility there could be a dino-like embryo in a bird's egg somewhere on Earth right now, that seems much more possible. Every so often I check to see if anyone has actually found Mokele-Mbembe or a 'river dino' yet. So far, apparently not.



posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 03:57 PM
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raymundoko
reply to post by DARREN1976
 


Turtles are not amphibious. They have to come up for air every few hours.

Frogs have to breath air as well, as they have lungs, having outgrown the use of gills, and they are amphibians are they not?



posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 04:15 PM
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DazDaKing
reply to post by JadeStar
 


Not here to claim the Reptillian theories are true, but the origins lie far deeper than the 1980s lol. Serpent worship is effectively one of the oldest and culturally consistent (across the world) types of worship to have occurred in man's history. Several cultures believe we have been in 'contact' with an intelligent, reptile like race since our inception. Other cultures suggest the 'God's' they worshipped were of serpent like qualities or derived from the 'cosmic serpent'.

Shamans have been reporting contact with intelligent, apparently conscious reptillian entities, through the use of ancient and sacred substances, for a very long time (as well as a host of other animals of course). Then you have culture specific stories of Reptillian humanoids such as the Naga.

Throughout sacred scriptures across the world the snake/serpent/reptile is held as a creator and ruler. The Gnostics of ancient times spoke of 'Archons', inorganic entities who arose before our universe and can take the image of a serpent or reptile creature. There are many stories like this.

Furthermore, 'Dragons' were often held in sacred light and considered to be beyond human wisdom and intelligence, and also of having 'free will'. While not humanoid Reptillians, it adds to the general obsessiveness with grand reptiles in our ancient past.

So, although shows like 'V' and claims of possible Reptillian-humanoid evolution (which infact now has stronger evidence, as I remember seeing a study stating the specific type of DNA the dinosaurs contained could be more likely to reach an 'intelligent' stage than ours - # knows how they figured that out), did most probably fuel the modern Reptillian theories to the extent they're at now - the overall idea of either;

1) Cosmic/God reptiles
2) 'Ruler' serpents/'draconian' tactics
3) Reptillian humanoids
4) Inorganic 'form-changing' reptillians

All date back to our earliest cultures, and possibly long before written history.

Oh yeah, Rick Straussman's (Harvard Prof. Of Psychology) book; 'The Spirit Molecule', was based around his conducting of the only official study ever done on a certain shamanic substance, and a significantly large (over 60% I believe) proportion of the subjects reported contact with either cosmic like serpents or straight up Reptillian humanoids, and these same people were often VERY dismissive of Straussman's proposal of purely psychological effects. Infact, Straussman himself eventually changed his opinion to that of believing these 'entities' were very much real and that we simply are out of our 'depth' with these things.

Interestingly, Straussman found a large overlap in symptoms of his subjects and people who experienced a 'UFO abduction', especially with people reporting 'reptilian entities'. You HAVE to take into account that abduction experiences detailing 'reptillians' pre-dates the show 'V', and was very likely part of the influence for the story. This actually helped divide the UFO community into 2 - with some believing the abductions were 'real', physical events, and others believing they were 'spiritual' attacks by an unknown source. The 'physical' Reptillian alien theory derives from these factors, though the actual phenomenon of a 'reptilian' intelligence that is 'above us' stretches back thousands and thousands of years.

It is also noteworthy that amounts of snake venom can leave a person in a similar 'state', interacting with serpent entities and such.

It is also important to add that David Icke does NOT propose 'physical' shape-shifting reptillians from another planet, give the man a break! He, surprisingly, is actually clued up on quite a few things (interaction between universe and body, the global state of the world etc) and his 'reptilian' theories are completely based on shamanic substance use and research into ancient culture. That is to say, he proposes an outside 'intelligence' to our 5-sense world, that 'plays' with our world in a sense. He believes these entities take a Reptillian form when humans do actually perceive their state - that's all.

Completely different from a physical, travelling race from the Draco constellation.

Just thought I'd clear that up. You should do your full research before you attempt to convince people what to believe the origin of something is.

Edit; just read some of your replies in this thread Jade and I realise you are clued up to this. I still think it should be included in the OP, as you cannot implicitly dissect the whole history of the 'reptilian' obsession from the recent phenomenon, without isolating people to the whole wealth of knowledge surrounding the subject.

So, although what you have said has definitely influenced the Reptillian-alien hypothesis, the fact is that groups of people such as the Gnostics were saying the same thing over 2,000 years ago.

I believe serpent worship goes beyond 'man scared of snake so man worship snake'. I believe, what has allowed it to sustain itself in magnitude across cultures throughout history is more deeply linked to 'altered states of consciousness', and that ultimately allowed the shift from 'spiritual' Reptillian to 'physical'/alien Reptillian.

If someone read your OP with none of this prior knowledge, they would simply assume this Reptillian stuff is a product of crackpot theorists, a dodgy scientist and a TV show lol. And lets be honest, we both know the roots go further back. Doesn't it deserve a full 'shake down'?






edit on 1-1-2014 by DazDaKing because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-1-2014 by DazDaKing because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-1-2014 by DazDaKing because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-1-2014 by DazDaKing because: (no reason given)


And there was lo the being that ALESTAIR CROWLEY was supposed to be in contact with called "LAM" who has been likened to the modern day description of the GRAY...



posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 04:35 PM
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deadcalm



Fossilized Bones. Plain and simple. The same way we know they existed at all.
reply to post by JadeStar
 


Fossilization of bones is actually quite rare. We actually have an extremely narrow view of ancient life on Earth. So the truth is...if dinosaurs had evolved into a "higher" life form, we would be oblivious to it as most species have not been lucky enough to have died in an area that had just the right conditions for their bones to fossilize.


Ok, so then we'd need evidence of some form of technology. If we were to die out or leave the planet somehow there are some things we've done which would last for millions of years.

Where are the dinosauroid footprints on the moon for example?



posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by LordOfDestruction
 


This reptilian topic has ways fascinated me.
I do believe there are mAny earth like planets out there that followed a path of evolution like here on earth. Convergent evolution comes to mind. Perhaps some sort of reptilian life did evolve on those planets and will have millions of years ahead of us in terms of evolution.



posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 06:52 PM
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There have been legends of reptilian humanoids throughout human history. It didn't just originate from television and media. You can do a google on the topic and clearly see that people have been seeing something out of the ordinary through the years.



posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 06:56 PM
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But if they are real and here on Earth, I don't think they're alien at all. I think they've been here just as long as us if not longer. I think they are a xenophobic race that went underground a long time ago. That's if they even exist.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 01:04 AM
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cuckooold

JadeStar


Thank you! And Happy New Year!




Ditto


JadeStar
I love Bowie, Hendrix, Sabbath, a lot of that dinosaur UFO music, but I also like Muse, Janelle Monae, Megadeth, hell, even Lady Gaga.
One can like both dinosauroid UFO music and current stuff ya know?




Of course, just having another tease as I never did get a response to the one I gave you in my thread. I like quite a lot of modern music although some may be a little esoteric, and some less so like Amy
Winehouse, who I find quite astounding. Come to think of it, there's dinosauroid UFO music, but what about reptilian stuff as well?


Anything from the 80s will do
Maybe we can throw Dinosaur Jr. in there as well just on name basis alone




JadeStar

Thank you. It's one of my pet peeves too but be careful, if you read my stuff close enough you'll notice I make a lot of mistakes with the use of the possessive apostrophe. But like you said, I at least try to use it.



The possessive can be tricky, but a good fake is if you can't work out whether to use it or not, rewrite the sentence so it doesn't require one (try writing double and the far more ambiguous and difficult triple possessive!).

Thanks for that tip!


What frustrates me (although I try not to advertise it), are simple contractions without an apostrophe. I find those so cringeworthy that I don't even want to give an example (not that you would need one), as too many either wouldn't notice, or care.


"really? i havent any idea what you're talking about. i dont do that do I? its not like you cant understand what im saying. u know wht i mean?"

Jokes aside. I blame text messaging on cheap Nokia phones during the early 00s.


I do enjoy reading your contributions, finding them to be articulate, open minded, and scientific.


Thanks. That's why I am here. Even if some think I am some sort of "disinfo agent" lol.


[quote[This thread contains plenty of information I was unaware of, and call me a sadist, but there is a pleasure to be derived from watching those with nothing verifiable, grabbing factoids thinking them facts, adding opinions and attitudes, and then being shot down in a thousand pieces by one simple piece of decent reasoning.

I take no pleasure in doing that. I only hope to foster some more rigorous thinking among those who enthusiastically follow the subject and hope to contribute to it in some way. The way forward is cutting through the B.S., of which there is a lot in UFOlogy at this point.



In my opinion, the more hoaxes and rubbish weeded out from UFOlogy, the better, as this will allow the study of anomalous events without a lot of the all too common detritus found in what would never pass in its current state as science.


Exactly. That's why I devote time to posting here on these subjects. The way forward is to take UFOlogy back to its science heavy roots.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 10:57 AM
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coastlinekid
reply to post by JadeStar
 





SPIKE IN REPORTS OF REPTILIANS as part of the UFO Phenomena is a distinctly RECENT phenomena


What "spike" are you referring to?

I think I see where you are going with this, but I think you are actually identifying the point in time when modern media started to "overtly" inject the reptilian theory as a form of "predictive programming" over a long period of time...
David Icke may have "forced their hand" so to speak by studying the issue and having a media "voice" to promote it...




If you were alive in the early '80s, you should know that great sci-fi TV series ("V") that popularized the whole imagery. There was even an attempt at a remake of it recently, but while the premise was good, it was nowhere near the original in terms of quality and originality.

It's also an avoided issue by Icke believers that David Icke came with his conspiracy theory AFTER the "V" series, and the movie "They Live", that is a carbon-copy blueprint of his theory (or actually the reverse).

From all the imagery of aliens pre-80s. people were usually representing them with different appearance... greys, tall greys, "ET"-like beings, hairy dwarves, cyborg-like humanoids, etc.
THERE IS THE EXCEPTION of the Judeo-Christian demons, and the talking dragons (that exist from ancient Chinese to European mythology), that pretty much could be Saurians (especially given how they live underground).

I'm also intrigued of the arch-nemesis Sauron in Tolkien's books, that's close to the unusal description of saurians as a very tall, dark, scary SHAPESHIFTER that preceded the Age of Man by a very long time.

But it's got nothing to do with alien theory you got these days. Anyone who supports David Icke claims actually wither away or never answer to those two obvious references to "V" and "They Live". Will you?

Icke is very lucky the studios still haven't managed to take royalties from his business... He'd be living in the streets by now.

...but that whole evolutionary theory of the Saurians actually is fascinating still! Flagged.
edit on 2/1/14 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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roncoallstar
Excuse me but you are wrong. If you knew anything about the Anasazi, Hopi and Zuni myths and legends, you would know that even they themselves say what they are. This is not an interpretation. These myths and legends come directly from the descendants of these tribes themselves. Unless of course you are saying you know better than these Native Americans did, and you believe they are just crazy.

If this were true, then why did you assert that the figure "looks reptilian" to you?

Ant people yes (also, talking coyotes and spider woman.) Reptilians, no.

Please link us to the scholarly works detailing the mythos of the Anasazi.

To my understanding, the entirety of any myths applied to the Anasazi must be accomplished through inferring from the mythos of later people.

That might work to a certain extent. But history shows it can be quite misleading - see Babylonian Versus Sumerian mythology - same names, different aspects/beliefs.

Harte



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 01:59 PM
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intelligenthoodlum33
reply to post by JadeStar
 


I am sorry, but your theory is flat out wrong. Hopi Indians as well as the Chinese have many stories of shape shifting reptilians that predate your scientist from 1980 and 1940's Hollywood.

Not saying that reptilians exist, so keep the ridicule, but your theory is so off the mark that it's funny. It took me one minute to find, cut and paste these links.



www.dragonorama.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

They had myths about foxes that shapeshift into human form as well. In fact, this myth is FAR more prevalent.

So, shapeshifting canine aliens from the dog star controlling every aspect of every govenrment on Earth?

Dogs eat snakes, you know.

Harte



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 02:38 PM
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Harte

That might work to a certain extent. But history shows it can be quite misleading - see Babylonian Versus Sumerian mythology - same names, different aspects/beliefs.

Harte



Or Greek vs Roman mythology - different names, same aspects/beliefs.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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Harte

intelligenthoodlum33
reply to post by JadeStar
 


I am sorry, but your theory is flat out wrong. Hopi Indians as well as the Chinese have many stories of shape shifting reptilians that predate your scientist from 1980 and 1940's Hollywood.

Not saying that reptilians exist, so keep the ridicule, but your theory is so off the mark that it's funny. It took me one minute to find, cut and paste these links.



www.dragonorama.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

They had myths about foxes that shapeshift into human form as well. In fact, this myth is FAR more prevalent.

So, shapeshifting canine aliens from the dog star controlling every aspect of every govenrment on Earth?

Dogs eat snakes, you know.

Harte


Excellent points. I tried to make the same one but essentially this idea is almost a religion to some. When faced with contradictory evidence they just turn away and run back to the familiar narrative which has been falsified.

That said, don't be surprised if a show about doglike aliens coming to Earth doesn't spawn a whole new mythos of canine aliens from Sirius


So many people have trouble separating what is produced in Hollywood from reality. It's shocking.
edit on 2-1-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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Harte

intelligenthoodlum33
reply to post by JadeStar
 


I am sorry, but your theory is flat out wrong. Hopi Indians as well as the Chinese have many stories of shape shifting reptilians that predate your scientist from 1980 and 1940's Hollywood.

Not saying that reptilians exist, so keep the ridicule, but your theory is so off the mark that it's funny. It took me one minute to find, cut and paste these links.



www.dragonorama.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

They had myths about foxes that shapeshift into human form as well. In fact, this myth is FAR more prevalent.

So, shapeshifting canine aliens from the dog star controlling every aspect of every govenrment on Earth?

Dogs eat snakes, you know.

Harte


The Chinese eat both.


Make of that what you will.
edit on 2-1-2014 by draknoir2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 03:04 PM
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Ok, so then we'd need evidence of some form of technology. If we were to die out or leave the planet somehow there are some things we've done which would last for millions of years.
reply to post by JadeStar
 


No, in fact most of our technology would be gone....completely in just a few thousand years...after a million there would be no trace of us left.

As for footprints on the moon....who's to say there aren't any?? I'm reminded of an old saying....things are only impossible...until their not. Remember that 500 years ago we were convinced that the Earth was a pancake....imagine what we will know in another 500 years? We are but infants in the grand scheme of things...



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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It should be noted that David Icke’s reptilian idea basically comes from ancient mythological chronicles, not primarily post-modern pseudoscience, though he has used modern references to support his doctrines.



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