Rendlesham Forest…, A Christmas Story from 1980 - Can We ‘Let it Be’?

originally posted by: ctj83

Where do you think Roswell came from? I suspect that there are elements of it and the the RFI that were intentionally stoked or manufactured (Steve Roberts in the RFI).

I once had hopes for Roswell. It sure sounded like some kind of answer there if the supposed secrecy could be penetrated. Most openminded researchers, however, who have done a deep dive into the case have, like me, moved on.

So, yeah, I think Roswell as E.T. was all manufactured. Then, later, it was stoked for different purposes! Counterintelligence for one. Modern ufology--and its mythology--benefits Uncle Sam greatly. It's very multi-purpose.

I don't totally rule out Roswell, but I'm 99% that it wasn't an E.T. crash.

Rendlesham is actually a little more open for me percentage-wise and, once again, I got my hopes up initially. But I've been heavily leaning that it wasn't a close encounter for a few years now.

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: ctj83

Where do you think Roswell came from? I suspect that there are elements of it and the the RFI that were intentionally stoked or manufactured (Steve Roberts in the RFI).

So, yeah, I think Roswell as E.T. was all manufactured. Then, later, it was stoked for different purposes! Counterintelligence for one. Modern ufology--and its mythology--benefits Uncle Sam greatly. It's very multi-purpose.

I don't totally rule out Roswell, but I'm 99% that it wasn't an E.T. crash.

What do you think that pesky 1% relates to, GUT? Did the release of documents in 2001 help at all? For me, more than anything, those documents seemed to confirm that certain experimental aircraft could account for huge swathes of sightings in the 50s/60s - eg the Trent photos immediately sprang to mind upon seeing the specifics for one project.

I assume the flawed official explanations of 1994 and 1998 ("Case Closed") only added fuel to the conspiracy fires as the government stumbled from one bungled reason (alleged project launch on an erroneous date) to another (1950s 6-feet high crash-test dummies who time-traveled back to the late 40s). Were these errors the result of pure laziness in an attempt to just bury the topic once and for all, but not for spooky reasons? Or did they deliberately do a "Doty"?

Personally, the rot set in as soon as Brazel found the flimsy materials on 14th June before the Arnold-fueled 'Flying Disc' flap (IIRC not regarded as necessarily an "ET" matter until later, despite the popularity of Shaver and Co), and only later dragged his scrawny ass to the Sheriff's office 3 weeks later to collect potential reward money when the flap was in full flight. It amazes me that many researchers choose to believe Brazel saw the crash occur on 4th July... and then it just snowballs. Marcel's change of story regarding the material in Ramey's office just pumped both barrels into the case - from "Yeah, it was the original stuff, just the least interesting bits" to "They SWITCHED it, doggone it!" Sigh...

As with Rendlesham, simply returning to the original documents provides more answers than the pantomime guff that followed. As for the 'second' Roswell site... *head hits desk*... and the third... *THUD*

Fun though, in a twisted kinda way.


(PS: How am I doing, GUT? You definitely gave me a confidence boost earlier today - hell, I might even reach 20 posts at this rate!)

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Lol, you are doing quite well...the rejection of the Roswell religion is the beginning of all knowledge! I know that ticks off some folk but I'm not trying to tick anyone off.

I do believe we have true mysteries and I lean towards we are not alone. And I mean just on our planet for starters. But it turns out to be wasting time looking for real answers to that question in Roswell and almost certainly Rendlesham too.

Are you familiar with Dorthy Izatt, btw? I consider her an example of a lesser-known case with much greater potential for understanding the phenomena.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I assume the flawed official explanations of 1994 and 1998 ("Case Closed") only added fuel to the conspiracy fires as the government stumbled from one bungled reason (alleged project launch on an erroneous date) to another (1950s 6-feet high crash-test dummies who time-traveled back to the late 40s).

Actually you can read the Roswell reports yourself for free. Your assumption of 'flawed' explanations obviously comes with a very Stan Friedman slant. See in this hand how incompetent the government can be but in my other hand they are absolutely perfect covering up the truth about the aliens...

Roswell Report: Fact Versus Fiction in the New Mexico Desert

The Roswell Report: Case Closed,

My impression was that the report is an attempt to explain all the wild stories that were circulating in the 1990s. So instead of just calling people liars (and there were liars like Glenn Dennis the mortician and Frank Kaufman) the Air Force tried to explain why people may have told these stories. The mention of crash test dummies from the 50s was suggesting that people thought they saw alien bodies in the desert but due to the passage of time their memories were not razor sharp and dates were confused. Even Jesse Marcel could not recall the year of the Roswell incident when he first began to talk 30 years after the events. It was not confirmed until someone went through old newspapers to find the famous headline.

Roswell was a nothing story for 30 years. Project Bluebook didn't even mention it. It was allowed to grow because there was no internet and fact checking meant tracking down people via telephone books and going to libraries and public records offices.

They even had a spaceship at Roswell, there's a picture inside the report of it.



Back when the Jesse Marcel story was breaking they appeared to already have found the answer of sorts But instead the story inflated and expanded like a weather balloon.



My own take on Roswell is that someone on the base wanted to be first to claim they had one of those darned "Flying Saucers" that people were starting to see. So they jumped the gun and issued a press release. Not realizing what they really had was something much more down to earth.

But this thread is about the new Roswell and it is amazing to see how it has been similarly inflated down the years.

Unlike Roswell, Rendlesham's problems actually start with the original document. Halt's memo is inaccurate with dates of the incident, describes a craft that none of the witness statements confirm and his excuse that he wrote it from memory sounds like fabrication to me. When a senior military office writes an official memo to an allied government he does not just rely on (an apparently faulty) memory. He had his tape, the witness statements and the base 'blotters' to refer to for accuracy. That plus the events should still have been fairly fresh in his memory. So it doesn't wash. (For more in depth analysis on all of that zoom back to page 177)

Edit to Above : When referring to page 177 of this thread and the original witness statements, I notice Jim Penniston's website has finally been changed and they have removed his comments about his statement being written with British spellings etc. A complete fantasy by Penniston. He does seem to have some real cognitive troubles at times.

But it has all been preserved on a number of archive sites to ensure that his mental aberrations are preserved for posterity : tinyurl.com...

a reply to: mirageman

Let's never forget who paid for the investigation that turned into a Crash At Corona.

Then look at what was going on at Berlitz Language Schools in places like Cuba.

Maybe because there was more there than we know. Just not what we think.

a reply to: mirageman

But it has all been preserved on a number of archive sites to ensure that his mental aberrations are preserved for posterity

I guess their web master has been busy.

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I do believe we have true mysteries and I lean towards we are not alone. And I mean just on our planet for starters. But it turns out to be wasting time looking for real answers to that question in Roswell and almost certainly Rendlesham too.

That's more or less my stance, too, but I suspect the answers to the question are far more esoteric and exotic, perhaps TOO esoteric for the standard tabloid media. And I'm with you on the notion that, for all its inherent problems, TTSA may be pushing the government to reveal some of its quantum-based findings - perhaps the reason why poor old Knapp is constantly questioning his own reality these days.

Are you familiar with Dorthy Izatt, btw? I consider her an example of a lesser-known case with much greater potential for understanding the phenomena.

Yes, I do know the case and the earlier, similar Stella Lansing mystery. Again, quantum theory seems to wave from the crowd of explanations, and the 8mm movies themselves certainly defy analysis. The Lansing case is perhaps more controversial, not least because of her later mental health issues - her bizarre 8mm shot of human-like beings chatting together and then staring down at her somehow fascinates me. It could stem from a schlock 50s/60s TV shoe/movie (as Meier was outrageously adept at doing), but on the other hand it does recall the Sherman family's more out-there encounters at Skinwalker in which a human-like ''businessman' sat at a table before staring out at them from a landed craft in front of the homestead.

I know, right? But yes, the neglected Izatt may have given us more answers to the riddle than anyone else so far, and unwittingly so.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Too true...

People approach subjects such as this with a confirmation bias in place so strong that they will only search for the answers that back up their bias.

It isn't often you will find people that dont have one in place and are prepared to change it.

Personally, I think it is important to simply recognise that I have a confirmation bias and factor that in. Particularly when as I did on your angry Tuesday I find myself reacting emotionally to the material I am presenting myself with. We all have triggers that can influence the way in which we approach and view a subject. We all have a tendency to edit our perception of events to suit whatever values we hold in prevalence. Why fight it? Accept it and take measures to compensate for it. That's what reflection is for.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
Keeping an open mind and denying your own ignorance is something we should all do and not expect to be spoon-fed the answers to everything, especially when the narrative is always driven by the same old boys club over and over in uapology / ufology, it can all be traced back to pretty much the same old bunch..

I've been reflecting on that.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: ConfusedBrit


My impression was that the report is an attempt to explain all the wild stories that were circulating in the 1990s. So instead of just calling people liars (and there were liars like Glenn Dennis the mortician and Frank Kaufman) the Air Force tried to explain why people may have told these stories. The mention of crash test dummies from the 50s was suggesting that people thought they saw alien bodies in the desert but due to the passage of time their memories were not razor sharp and dates were confused. Even Jesse Marcel could not recall the year of the Roswell incident when he first began to talk 30 years after the events. It was not confirmed until someone went through old newspapers to find the famous headline.

Thanks for the links. Yes, actually READING the reports leaves me looking at Stanton - well, the ghost of Stanton - and gesturing that he stand in the corner of the room with a bucket on his head.

IIIRC, Kaufman's outrageous accounts were debunked by Randle in 2002, so I suppose that explains why the dummies were given such prominence in the 1998 report whilst Kaufman's fraud was still breathing; I doubt they'd have been featured otherwise. Regarding the civilian witnesses to 'bodies', I did get the feeling they were mis-remembering dates, or in some cases simply lying - hardly a stretch considering the bare-faced lies from actual Roswell military staff. I have memories of another civilian witness dabbing her eyes rather unconvincingly in a documentary, recounting how the military assured her she'd "Seen nuthin', knew nuthin'" and "We could bury ya in that there desert, missy"... *Head hits desk again*

Staff on Bluebook in the early 50s immediately dismissed Roswell as an anomaly without a moment's thought, having seen the 1947 documents, and, as you say, thirty years were required for Marcel to blatantly muddy the waters and start lying immediately to Bill Moore and Bob Pratt about his academic and military record; anything said thereafter can more or less be binned.

They even had a spaceship at Roswell, there's a picture inside the report of it.

Heh. :p

My own take on Roswell is that someone on the base wanted to be first to claim they had one of those darned "Flying Saucers" that people were starting to see. So they jumped the gun and issued a press release. Not realizing what they really had was something much more down to earth.

I agree. The press release never uses the term "saucer" (as well as getting the date of Brazel's sighting wrong) although that was pushed by some journalists, "disc" by others. In neither description do I suspect "ET" was implied by either the press or the public at large, rather more a Cold War-themed mystery with fingers pointing to the East. As soon as 'The Thing From Another World' and 'The Day The Earth Stood Still' were released 4 years later, the "ET Saucer" ball really started rolling. And by then Roswell was effectively dead until Stanton re-opened the coffin. But I need to look further into that media/public ET perception.

On a side note, it's interesting that in 1977 Ken Arnold suggested he'd seen inter-dimensional living beings rather than crafts. Hey, GUT, was Ken already onto something?

Halt's memo is inaccurate with dates of the incident, describes a craft that none of the witness statements confirm and his excuse that he wrote it from memory sounds like fabrication to me. When a senior military office writes an official memo to an allied government he does not just rely on (an apparently faulty) memory. He had his tape, the witness statements and the base 'blotters' to refer to for accuracy. That plus the events should still have been fairly fresh in his memory. So it doesn't wash.

Poor old Chuck. I do feel for the guy. The memo has all the hallmarks of a 'That'll do' rush-job, something to notify the authorities for the sake of completeness, especially after the Suffolk Constabulary had already been stomping around the forest themselves. The seriousness with which the incident was taken AT THE TIME, is pretty much summed up by Halt later jeeping into the forest again with Gordon Williams and attendant family members on a Scooby-Doo adventure after another sighting in January 1981. I'm surprised he didn't sell tickets! Nothing was seen (I can imagine the sheepish look on Chuck's face) and Williams' family probably blew a raspberry at Chuck in disappointment.

There's even a twist to that Scooby-Doo trip when Steve LePlume claimed he saw a massive craft floating over the base later that same evening - as described by him in this very thread IIRC - and so the twists and turns continue ad-infinitum...

Adrian Bustinza is an important cog within the RSI, a cog that never seems to fit in an understandable way - as you very well know, MM. Even his garbled remarks about Larry Warren in the 2015 radio interview were later contradicted by himself in social media, leaving the impression of someone who regretted ever coming forward again and Just Wanted To Be Left Alone, Greta Garbo-style.

Don't even get me started on Larry... I'd get a nose-bleed.

originally posted by: The GUT
And tangled I think describes the answer to influential story-tellers vs true believers. It appears we have a strange brew of both of those separately or in concert with the various ubiquitous players and the ubiquitous mythology created since Roswell and Rendlesham to some degree.

I'm starting to feel that it is too obvious though. All these links to MK-Ultra, Artichoke, this is stuff we know. This is stuff that has been given ample print-runs. It's disgusting and it is sordid. All of it. There is nothing redeeming about any of the research and tests conducting on unwitting citizens, prisoners, servicemen and women, mental patients, children etc, etc and more importantly it was all conducted with intent. Having watched Wormwood the Frank Olson docu-drama, I am led to understand that you cannot sue the US government for intent, only negligence. I don't know if that is true but if it is, I think behaviourally, it could explain alot.

originally posted by: The GUT
The more I look at folk like Puthoff, Green, and Alexander the more I see how busy they stay as contractors and the kind of research they are actually doing throughout the years. The T.I.G.E.R. study has been mentioned before as an example but it's really much more than that example alone. It actually evokes MK-ULTRA and associated programs with no exaggeration.

If we refer back to Gus Russo's excellent article Is Uncle Sam a Closet UFOlogist and the follow up by the Reality Uncovered team it's pretty clear Kit Green was studying (and presumably testing) the spread of memes at about the time he was found wrapped up in the spread of SERPO. With Doty and Puthoff no less. Not to mention MRI work in looking at brain activity for interrogation purposes/lie detecting. Dr. Green with his background as, basically, the equivalent of Sidney Gottlieb's position at the CIA is most assuredly looking for answers to questions that don't have much to do with UFOs in reality but the UFO community makes one heck of a test bed.

I think that the main difficulty with any information sharing community, such as ufology or environmentalists, is that they share information. That information collected and collated constitutes evidence that can be quantified in order to extract statistical data. That's science.

originally posted by: The GUT

The military-industrial complex is about one thing: Full-spectrum dominance.---whatever the longtime intelligence assets are working on almost assuredly has to do with that.

Full-spectrum dominance I think is it. I can't say I understand what that means, but that does seem to have been the key long term aim of the US. And I think that to achieve that they have been negligent.

I was looking for more information of Rexford Daniels, the guy Annie Jacobsen in her book phenomenon claimed was interested in ESP for long range submarine communications, and elsewhere I have seen it claimed that in the 1970s he became convinced that some intelligent force in the Universe was operating through EM frequencies and that human beings could interact with it. Now, I wasn't that surprised by that, when I was at uni I interviewed the then head of the Society for Psychical Research who was also a professor emeritus of Electrical Engineering, he told me "he had seen things that would knock me out of my chair". He was genuine in his beliefs, they did not conflict with his profession, therefore, why would Daniels not be similarly inclined? No reason at all in my book, so nothing odd there...but then there is. What it shows up is Annie Jacobsen's appalling sourcing. Her footnotes mean jack #, they're simply there to make the book look well researched...I may be picking on Annie here but, whatever Daniels may or may not have believed in, his work, what he got paid to do, was investigate and study the causes of radio interference, and to advise the President on the health risks of electromagnetism. I am inclined to think that rather than be interested in ESP, he found that one of the hazards of electromagnetic fields was that it caused distortions of perception. He may or may not have communicated that information to Puharich, and they may or may not have discussed the implications of that but contrary to what Jacobsen claims, Daniels was not engaged in ESP studies. He and his team though did produce a report highlighting that electrical powerlines were a risk to the health of the public and this was subsequently "covered up" by the US Navy who labelled it for "Official Use Only".

This is an interesting interview with a former colleague of Daniels...

ethw.org...:Chester_Smith

Currents of Death by Paul Brodeur provides further details of the role ERMAC in the 60s and 70s.

I suspect Jacobsen is another Levenda, not as influential but similiarly motivated by influencing.

originally posted by: The GUT
You are always a pleasure to read and consider, KT.

Right back at ya, GUT

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Awesome post KG, most notably "the distortions in perception" in relation to exposure to certain emf.

My personal opinion is that whatever "it" is, is terrestrial in nature, kinda. But we just don't see it, unless we are interfered with in relation to emf etc etc. Some natural / machine intelligence perhaps that exists in the same space but doesn't, I have always been sure the answer does lie in all things quantum, as a result of emf and other radar systems it's like we become entangled and become "antenna" for the duration of exposure.

This is all theory and I have no evidence, but I believe the answer lies closer to home rather than out in the stars. You have people like vallee and putoff with their occult backgrounds and interests that believe through other means you can replicate such experiences through meditation and RV etc. That's why I believe they have an jnterest in tbus subject, the military just want to weaponise it.

Most of the military sightings are near odd and sometimes classified radar installations etc, Nimitz being an example and yes, they would be, being military and all, always made me go hmmmm.

Anyway.....meanwhile in the real world.

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I do believe we have true mysteries and I lean towards we are not alone. And I mean just on our planet for starters....

The answer to the great UFO mystery is probably a number of things that just get categorized as UFOs because they are unexplained. Ruling out hoaxes, illusions, delusions, swamp gas, Venus, weather balloons and other misperceptions the consensus seems to be that around 5% of sightings and encounters are unexplained. Of that 5% I would guess that a large number of those again are lacking sufficient data to be able to give any sort of explanation.

So that leaves (not necessarily exclusively)

1) It is something like the lights seen at Hessdalen. A 'probably' natural phenomenon but one little understood by science.

2) Real spacecraft/probes from an extra-terrestrial intelligence. (I would say this is a possibility but if its true then we are talking about a fairly rare occurrence and almost certainly a machine intelligence).

3) A form of intelligence exists that we are too limited to even sense its existence and are incapable of comprehending....

This small excerpt from Twin Peaks may illustrate point 3 better than I can.

a reply to: mirageman

And what is number 4?

a reply to: mirageman

No one seems to have looked into the Intruder on the 29th. Seems like something weird.

originally posted by: mirageman

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I do believe we have true mysteries and I lean towards we are not alone. And I mean just on our planet for starters....

So that leaves (not necessarily exclusively)

1) It is something like the lights seen at Hessdalen. A 'probably' natural phenomenon but one little understood by science.

2) Real spacecraft/probes from an extra-terrestrial intelligence. (I would say this is a possibility but if its true then we are talking about a fairly rare occurrence and almost certainly a machine intelligence).

3) A form of intelligence exists that we are too limited to even sense its existence and are incapable of comprehending....

1) Certainly useful in terms of explaining Rendlesham and many general UFO reports. As well as 'Ghostly' phenomena, although not necessarily poltergeist activity (my only high strangeness experience, related in my obligatory 'Intro' post), although ultimately all paranormal events may stem from the same source in varying ways.

2) An extremely remote probability, I think. I also mentioned this in my intro thread that despite a universe most likely bristling with advanced life 'as a whole', the sheer number of stages and pure luck required to reach a sentient, technological, interplanetary stage, added to the umm astronomical mathematical improbability of physical visitation within Earth's recent lifetime in time for us to savour, pours cold water over that option for me. Which is hardly much fun, unless we apply a multiverse theory...

I instinctively feel (3) is the answer, but, similar to the 'Twin Peaks' clip, it potentially leaves modern researchers wandering dazed and confused through a surreal scenario like multiple Henry Spencers from Lynch's 'Eraserhead' (1977).

Colm Kelleher mentioned the mulitiverse option in the soon-to-be-topical-again 'Hunt For The Skinwalker' (2005) - an opportunity for my first quote!... I'll dig it out... here we go, I'll just blow the dust off the cover... some main points from page 243 :

Spanish physicist Beatriz Gato-Rivera has questioned whether we could be immersed in a larger civilisation without being aware of it. She notes that "typical civilisations of typical galaxies would likely be hundreds of thousands or even millions of years more evolved than our own. She compares it to a family of mountain gorillas and asks if the gorillas could possibly know that they are "a protected species inhabiting a natural reserve in a country outside the African continent of Planet Earth," blissfully unaware of nations, borders, religion, or politics, or of their own position within the planetary pecking order.

"Would any country on this planet send an official delegation to the mountain gorilla territory to introduce themselves openly and officially to the gorilla authorities?"... And if the multiverse paradigm is true, there could be untold numbers of older, infinitely more advanced civilisations that might be capable of traveling into our world at will.

Hmmm, if feasible, it would at least explain the variety of UFO shapes and sizes from pancakes, sausages, doughnuts to wedding cakes (but not Meier's).

Damnnn, I feel hungry now...

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Awesome post KG, most notably "the distortions in perception" in relation to exposure to certain emf.

Here are my notes from "Currents of Death"...

Dr Asher R Sheppard, a physicist at the Brain Research Institute at UCLA...he himself had not performed any experiments with ELF fields. However, together with Professor Merrill Eisenbud, director of the Laboratory of Environmental Studies at the New York University Medical Centre’s Institute of Environmental Medicine, he had recently conducted a review of the literature on the biological effects of ELF fields for the American Power Service Corporation, and come up with a balanced appraisal of the problem. On the one hand, he and Eisenbud found “no evidence that the public health or ecological systems have been jeopardized in the slightest by artificial electromagnetic fields.” On the other hand, “The one firm conclusion that emerges from a review of the existing literature is that relatively weak electric or magnetic fields are capable of evoking neurophysiological or behavioural effects” in monkeys and humans. They went on to suggest that because of “existing uncertainties and questions raised by Soviet reports, it is important that a properly conducted epidemiological study be undertaken.” P46

Marino...“the scientific literature which shows that the proposed transmission lines would be a human health hazard also shows that existing high-voltage transmission lines are a human health hazard.” He based his argument on the fact that he and other researchers had found biological effects in test animals exposed to the equivalent of 1,500 volts per meter, whereas the electric-field strength at the edge of the 150-foot right-of-way standard 345,000-volt line had been calculated to be approximately 1,60 volts per meter. Marino proposed that a safety factor of at least one hundred be applied, and that the upper limit of permissible chronic human exposure be set at 100 volts per meter. He said that to permit exposure to more intense fields would be tantamount to subjecting people to involuntary experimentation...” p 47

In 1979, using computer-based calculations, the four investigators reported in Physiological Chemistry and Physics that they found a correlation between the presence of electromagnetic fields from power lines and the occurrence of suicide. Two years later, after measuring actual magnetic-field strengths at the homes of 590 suicide victims and of 594 people who served as a control population, they reported in Health Physics that “Significantly more suicides occurred at locations of high magnetic field strength”. They believe this to be “the first demonstrated correlation between human behaviour and environmental power-frequency fields,” and they called for a large-scale epidemiological study to determine the public health significance of their startling finding. By this time, however, Becker and Marino had become the target of savage criticism and had been forced out of the Veterans Administration. P53

So, by my estimation, the neurological effects of weak magnetic fields was well established by the 1970s. We know now from the much later studies conducted by Persinger and his team, that the application of such weak fields can cause the subject to perceive "presences" amongst other things.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
My personal opinion is that whatever "it" is, is terrestrial in nature, kinda. But we just don't see it, unless we are interfered with in relation to emf etc etc. Some natural / machine intelligence perhaps that exists in the same space but doesn't, I have always been sure the answer does lie in all things quantum, as a result of emf and other radar systems it's like we become entangled and become "antenna" for the duration of exposure.

I really don't know, I wondering whether pilots, going right back to Foo-fighter sightings, are exposed to a weak magnetic field, and whether that could explain such sightings, or whether there is a "something" that, like us, is effected by the same kind of fields and utilises them in a way that we do not understand...but yeah, I am still of the opinion that whatever it is, is as terrestrially evolved as we are and therefore as responsive as we are to magnetic fields, just differently.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
This is all theory and I have no evidence, but I believe the answer lies closer to home rather than out in the stars. You have people like vallee and putoff with their occult backgrounds and interests that believe through other means you can replicate such experiences through meditation and RV etc. That's why I believe they have an jnterest in tbus subject, the military just want to weaponise it.

You know, given the attitude of the US towards it's poor, particularly it's poor African Americans, in a way, it already has been weaponised as an extension of the encouragement of ignorance that seems endemic to certain regions of the states, and of course, that is part of the strategy that they utilise to recruit cannon-fodder for the militaries. Vallee and also Levenda have provided validation to a number of "theories", and Levenda seems to know about initiation as being a controlled form of psychosis, but the question is whether he "believes" his own psychosis, same with Vallee and everyone else involved. Do they truly believe or do they know controlling the beliefs of others gives them power? I can't decide.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
Most of the military sightings are near odd and sometimes classified radar installations etc, Nimitz being an example and yes, they would be, being military and all, always made me go hmmmm.

I read somewhere that Popular Mechanics once did an article on that very subject where they overlaid a map of sightings over one of known and allegded military installations and found a strong correlation...but I haven't actually seen the article, or done the checking, so that's just hear say.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
Anyway.....meanwhile in the real world.

Which one?

originally posted by: ctj83
a reply to: mirageman

No one seems to have looked into the Intruder on the 29th. Seems like something weird.

Tell me more...

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

There are a bunch of smaller mysteries around the area, that I find very hard to research, but might provide an angle.

1) Burroughs has mentioned numerous times that there was an intruder on the base on the 29th. I've read something else, which I believe is actually an account of that intruder, whereby only a shadow could be seen heading into the WSA, and manoeuvring through the complex. However, I'm 99% sure the intruder was apprehended.

2) There is another story that one of the complex's in the area (not sure if it's military or BT) had a security guy find an alien at a filing cabinet rifling through files and then vanishes when he realises he's been seen.

If we take 1 as being correct, and I'm sure it is, then it seems likely that intrusion was connected to what happened the days after.

I'd recommend anyone to watch or read the Fourth Protocol, which details an attempt by a Soviet intruder on that base, in the 80s to detonate a small nuclear weapon to make it look like there was an accident with the weapons at the base. The result would have been a hard left Labour government and the possible collapse of NATO.

3) When I say "If you go down to the woods today you're sure of a big surprise" in reference to Twin Peaks and David Lynch I wasn't being metaphorical there's a big fact that everyone is missing. I don't mention it in detail because there's no point as clearly Lynch wasn't part of the RFI.

If Twin Peaks wasn't in some way influenced though, I'll eat my hat.

4) Atlantykron and David Anderson.

5) The fact that David Daniels had the portal locations that likely later found their way into Penniston's binary? The fact he had copy of the RFI report which was believed to be fake.

6) The return of Doty. The fact he, for once, provably told the truth about the existence of the report. Why did Doty appear a few months ago to tell a story about seeing a report, that actually does exist? Not what people expect of him, is it?

7) Once you know the Doty RFI report story is true and it exists, you've to ask how did David Daniels get hold of it?

8) Steve Roberts gave Brenda Butler what I believe is the TTSA sample. Which she hid in her house.

The David Lynch angle won't reveal much, but the David Daniels story keeps getting more validated (not as a shape shifting lizard, but as an obstacle to researchers) in my opinion. The intruder angle also needs exploring.

a reply to: ctj83

1) Burroughs has mentioned numerous times that there was an intruder on the base on the 29th. I've read something else, which I believe is actually an account of that intruder, whereby only a shadow could be seen heading into the WSA, and manoeuvring through the complex. However, I'm 99% sure the intruder was apprehended.

I've never heard Burroughs mention it. A story about 3 shadowy figures is in Georgina Bruni's "You Can't Tell the People" (Chapter - More Strange Encounters). But it comes from a former security guard assigned there in the 1970s. It's more of a ghost story than anything.

The weapons storage areas were heavily guarded by twelve-foot double fences, razor wire and motion detectors, regular armed patrols on foot and in vehicles. There was a high security tower with a view of the whole area, and the security guards posted to the tower could see special sensor maps that would highlight when perimeter fence alarms were tripped and within the base because of the sensitivity of the weapons stored there. Without any further references it's difficult to substantiate. I don't think we can take hearsay as facts.

2) There is another story that one of the complexes in the area (not sure if it's military or BT) had a security guy find an alien at a filing cabinet rifling through files and then vanishes when he realises he's been seen.

The story is again from the 1970s but comes from a Marconi establishment in Frimley : mysteriousuniverse.org...

3) When I say "If you go down to the woods today you're sure of a big surprise" in reference to Twin Peaks and David Lynch I wasn't being metaphorical there's a big fact that everyone is missing. I don't mention it in detail because there's no point as clearly Lynch wasn't part of the RFI.

Twin Peaks first aired in April 1990 so I am not certain all of those influences were present as it was wrapped up by June 10th 1991. Three months before "Unsolved Mysteries" aired Bentwaters UFO.

David Daniels is a character who seems to have been only given exposure by the 'eccentric' Brits like Brenda Butler. I'm not sure I can accept her word on that story. He seems to be very much relegated into the background (perhaps for good reason?). Are there other references as to how this character became involved and has hold of the 'Doty' report?

I'd also like to know, if there was a report already available in 1984 as Richard Doty claims, then why did the CIA conduct a remote viewing session in 1986 : Link to CIA report . I'd also like to know that if Doty has leaked genuine details about a still classified report then why isn't he in jail?

a reply to: KilgoreTrout