5% of the Population is Gay...Will Gay People ever stop pushing their Agenda?

reply to post by flammadraco


From ATS's information page:

"AboveTopSecret.com is the Internet's largest and most popular discussion board community dedicated to the intelligent exchange of ideas and debate on a wide range of "alternative topics".

The simple yet effective motto of our membership is "deny ignorance", which signifies an effort to apply the principals of critical thought and peer review to the provocative topics covered within.

The idea of "deny ignorance" isn't a goal that ATS hopes to accomplish. Instead, it is a challenge. A call to all those who come here to aspire to a higher state of awareness through informed discussion and debate."

*****************
This is the purpose of engaging in a public discussion on this and any subject here and elsewhere on the web. If you come here expecting total acceptance then you've entered a battle UN-armed. If you can not defend your position ... tread carefully. Apparently sound bites and pious popular platitudes pass for wisdom today. It's humanity's loss and it's ours to lose!

Do not think for a moment that I think I'm changing anyone's minds here.

reply to post by Ollie769


Hi Ollie769, the fact of the matter is that these continued threads on gay issues are a thorn in the side to ATS. There are many gay members here on ATS who use this site for the reasons you mentioned, however is it really fair that we see threads continuously bashing the LGBT members. I have seen Darth_Prime many times defend their position on these issues and as said no matter what is said by Darth_Prime or other gay members in these threads, nothing changes no opinions have been changed, other than I might add my opinion to some Christians.

There is as much hatred spurted in these kinds of threads as there are in the Religious threads, not sure if that's because they attract the same users? To be have 350 million gay people around the world being accused of having an agenda is preposterous, and yet that is exactly what the title of this thread insinuates.

Some folk could use a lesson in "Empathy" by putting themselves in someone else's shoes before starting threads like these. As said before this is a conspiracy website and unless you or others believe being gay is a conspiracy then it really is not the place for such a discussion with so many different believes and views. Personally speaking and i am sure many other gay and straight members will feel the same, some of these threads are bordering on hate and is very offensive to some members when being treated like scum as we are only a minority.

As I have said in the past, a democracy is not about majority rule, its about equality for all.

That being said ollie769, I will personally not comment again on this thread as I do not want to derail the topic! the aforementioned is my opinion and I am sure you have yours.

reply to post by flammadraco

There is as much hatred spurted in these kinds of threads as there are in the Religious threads, not sure if that's because they attract the same users? To be have 350 million gay people around the world being accused of having an agenda is preposterous, and yet that is exactly what the title of this thread insinuates.

Just stop it right there.

To try to deny there is a Gay Agenda is dishonest.

I have repeatedly stated I am talking about a very small minority.

I will post the Agenda for the third time if I need to.

You can deny, call names, try to pretend the 95% is all wrong and homophobic.

Add: You can argue the agenda....You can't say one does not exist.

whyamIhere
reply to post by flammadraco

 

There is as much hatred spurted in these kinds of threads as there are in the Religious threads, not sure if that's because they attract the same users? To be have 350 million gay people around the world being accused of having an agenda is preposterous, and yet that is exactly what the title of this thread insinuates.

Just stop it right there.

To try to deny there is a Gay Agenda is dishonest.

I have repeatedly stated I am talking about a very small minority.

I will post the Agenda for the third time if I need to.

You can deny, call names, feel sorry for yourself. But, I will call out an outright lie.

So where is your prove that the LGBT have an agenda? here in the UK the Gay Marriage act was pushed through parliament by the government.

I and other gay friends I have were quite happy with the fact we could have Civil Unions that gave gay couples the same legal rights at our straight counterparts with TAX etc. I do not know one other gay person in the UK that asked for the Gay Marriage Act to be actioned. As far as I am concerned the LGBT community in the UK never asked for this or wanted this.

What it has done is cause more homophobia in the UK, as this has bought these gay right issues to the fore again through no fault of the LGBT community and yet you accuse us of having an agenda or some minority group within the LGBT community. This has also caused religion to be more vocal in their opposition to the homosexual lifestyle.

I personally think, the UK government bought in this legislation as it gave the Sheeple something to fight over whilst diverting attention away from the real issues in the country. This was not bought about by a "Gay Agenda".

If you believe its only a minority of gay people with an agenda, why have you tarnished the whole community with the title of your thread. Do you not realise how offensive that is to other gay people who are not "militant".

I am not "Crying" about nowt, I'm just tired with all the LGBT bashing that goes on here in ATS lately and just wish this particular subject was removed from the threads as it is offensive to a lot of gay ATS members when people use this site to bash the LGBT community.

I have personally never seen as much homophobic abuse in my life as I have on ATS, referring to the LGBT as "gays" is derogatory. How would you and other members like to be referred to as the "straights" or better still "Breeders".

reply to post by flammadraco

Talk about gays and gayness as loudly and as often as possible(...) Portray gays as victims, not as aggressive challengers(...) Give homosexual protectors a just cause(...) Make gays look good(...) Make the victimizers look bad(...) Get funds from corporate America(...)[12]

Homosexual Agenda Wiki

Stop saying there is no agenda....it's obviously dishonest.

So where is your prove that the LGBT have an agenda? here in the UK the Gay Marriage act was pushed through parliament by the government.

I'm just speaking for myself here, superfluous perhaps but that happens when the argument is based on wrong premises.

The idea of an agenda at least to me is based on the idea if someone likes something, they want to share this with others and so others must like it as well otherwise that person is going to have to play that game all alone. So to get that game accepted means it's more likely more people will play it. The end goal of the agenda is no one in the world will be able to interrupt their game with examples of the standard game so convincing it can't be denied.

Another explanation is if you have one homosexual guy in a village but nowhere else, that guy is going to want a partner and do things to get that, just as most creatures would want to go out and find a partner. But no one in that village believes love-love can't be any other way than male/female so that guy must think of a plan in order for people to believe in male-male love-love as well since it doesn't create babies so there is not point to it.

Whatever the former parliament decided, those were choices of a generation I don't belong to. So much has changed in such a short time, I'm unsure if people back then really understood what they were doing. I can't help being born in a world with such an attitude and thoughts and all the problems that come with it, coming of age and realizing something is all wrong. I see those rights as being there for those who don't understand it's wrong to attack homosexuals for something they just can't understand. Otherwise we are all human and human rights should be enough for anyone, no need for anything else. Someone's preference or what they believe in whether it is the male-female love-love or anything else, abuse is always wrong. Which is another problem with most homosexuals, some make themselves believe they get hurt when someone doesn't agree with them.

I am not "Crying" about nowt, I'm just tired with all the LGBT bashing that goes on here in ATS lately and just wish this particular subject was removed from the threads as it is offensive to a lot of gay ATS members when people use this site to bash the LGBT community.

The point of discussion is to be able to understand eachother better but still able to disagree or agree there is never going to be agreement about a subject and why. People can speak for LGBT on the internet or against, it's a part of freedom. Anyone can choose to read a thread or not and respond or not in a way they choose to.

I have personally never seen as much homophobic abuse in my life as I have on ATS, referring to the LGBT as "gays" is derogatory. How would you and other members like to be referred to as the "straights" or better still "Breeders".

Call me Mr Standard. Otherwise I can't care less if people are negative, it's their problem they have to solve for themselves, I can only be compassionate about it.

Calling others scared is accusing them of having fears as if they are weak, it's such an old trick I'm surprised so many people fell for it, trying to prove something from a wrong premise which no one ever can. Or how some pretend they are getting abused while they are beating themselves up to get what they want, another old trick people should have seen through when homosexuals started doing that in their conquest.

reply to post by spiritspeak


At the end of the day, and I am sure most fellow gay people would also agree, I don't want special or preferential treatment because I am gay. I want to be treated equally just like other people.

Years ago in London, a gay man could go on the social housing list and receive a council house before most other people. I was absolutely disgusted with this as I do not believe giving the LGBT community special treatment is the way to go. Thankfully this is no longer the case in the UK.

That all being said means I also don't want to see threads bashing the LGBT community here in ATS, I want to treated as a fellow human being equal to everyone else. I pay my taxes just like everyone else, I contribute to my local community, I work a full time job, so why should I not be treated equal. Why should it be ok for folk to think its ok to create a thread where other gay people have to defend their right to equality?

I'm not going to comment further on this thread as I have said all I have to say and it's not really going to change anything.

reply to post by flammadraco


Be that as it may the deliberate misquotes and outright reinterpretation of scripture to further this lifestyle is a hot button issue of mine, as if it wasn't apparent already. Be free to practice as you please and be well but don't deliberately reinterpret scripture where those that know it can call you on it.

The thing is, is i don't want to make anyone think or believe anything, i am not here to force people into believing a certain way, that would be hypocritical of me, what i would hope to do is maybe help people see the other side, maybe illuminate them into a view not based on ignorance or coming from a place of intolerance and in some cases hate. as a Young Gay Male i believe i have a voice, and going through the tremendous hardships i had growing up i could be a fighter for Equality

i wish the world would be compassionate, and view us all as Humans with the freedoms to express ourselves and be who we are, if your religion dictates what you can and can't believe in that is your right and freedom, but that doesn't mean you have to try and control others or teach intolerance.

no matter the percentage any amount that endures bullying or discriminated against is a Human rights issue

reply to post by Darth_Prime


I really appreciate your honesty....it's refreshing.

I started this thread because I felt bullied.

I wrote it on a day that my 12 year old daughter started asking questions.

Maybe, I am not educated or equipped to explain this issue to a young person.

I would never want a gay young person to be afraid of anything.

I unlike some others realize you were born that way. Nobody would choose your situation.

reply to post by whyamIhere


And i respect your honesty.

not having Children i don't know how it feels to explain life to a child, i was never told about "gay" i didn't know what "Gay" was until i was homeless at 18. all i knew growing up was all kinds of abuse and being told i had a "disease", i knew i was attracted to Men but to me that was normal not knowing any different. my story is far darker and deeper than that, but that is for another day.

we have both agreed that there are other problems that people are dealing with, there are other issues that are being ignored, but anytime a percentage of people is being discriminated against that is something that should be solved. and not just homosexuals anyone in this world deserves the freedom to live and thrive and not be denied based on Sexuality,Race,Gender,Religion etc.

but children are taught intolerance, either by their parents or from school, or from other sources, people can disagree but understand that at the core we are all Human.


again i must state, through the conversations we have had the respect i have for you

reply to post by Darth_Prime

“The thing is, is i don't want to make anyone think or believe anything, i am not here to force people into believing a certain way, that would be hypocritical of me, what i would hope to do is maybe help people see the other side, maybe illuminate them into a view not based on ignorance or coming from a place of intolerance and in some cases hate.”

Yes, I understand “hatred”. At 57 I grew up when any type of outsider or idea was hated and feared. The world was still very much a collection of colonies of one group or another up until the 70’s or so. Also, by moving 20 times by the time I was 18 I also fully understand the feelings of an “outsider” going through all the school systems I did. Now that we’ve all multiplied to the point of not being able to get away from each other we become very sensitized to strange philosophies hitting us from all angles. It’s no wonder I love the seclusion of the pasture on our ranch! No radio, no TV, no strange people all around (I am a bit insulted the UFO’s eschew our area of Texas, though). “Socializing” on ATS, though, is something I consider safe, however, since carefully worded posts can produce interesting conversations.

Please understand this about what I’ve said: everything I say about the homosexual life, “experience”, what have you, is always IN GENERAL. I pointed out to one person in another thread that most people fall into a fallacy of Logic where they make conclusions regarding “the general” by referring to “the specific”. That being said please don’t also think I come to this subject without my own experiences. There are/have been homosexuals in my family. I have blood kin that have lived this way so their thoughts, their feelings run through my veins as well. This is no academic exercise for me. I’ve looked down that road and realized it’s a dead end.

This is what God, through Christ’s New Testament tries to “save” us from in this life. The whole of the Biblical writings are a tale of Man’s journey asking “How shall we then live?” I don’t question the fact that the Bible has also been used to hurt, kill, maim, imprison, prosecute, chase out and exclude people based on people’s poor understanding and people skills. Life is a big dilemma that is never fully solved, hence my firm belief in reincarnation. The usual four score and twenty the average person gets to trod the Earth isn’t enough to learn what you need to move on – not by a long shot!

But religion only works for "You" and those that believe in it, not me or others that don't. that is why Religion is a personal choice that can't be a "Rule" or a "Law"

i've encountered the "Find god and he can save your soul" "God can make you straight" "pray away the gay" etc, but that is their belief, not mine. no matter how much someone preaches to someone it wont do a thing unless said person believes the same.


there is no one "Experience" in life, be it Gay straight, black or white.

reply to post by Darth_Prime


Well, if you'd REALLY been reading any of my posts up until now you'd know I call "horse hockey" on all of that spirituality stuff. Yes, there's definitely something spiritual that works for us that is unseen and vaguely understood but I always remember a little piece of paper my step-dad had in his office - "All things come to those who waiteth, so long as those who waiteth worketh like Hell while they waiteth!" It's a joke but it's loaded with truth. I'm not about to say, given the life experience you've had to date, that heterosexuality is within your grasp. You've obviously invested quite a bit of yourself in the homosexual community - friends, an entire lifestyle, whatever. If it's the first time you've experienced stability in your life then it's not something you simply walk away from. You're not in a hole, you're in a labyrinth that you're going to have to WANT to get out of if you ever do. You've probably had every psychological trick in the book thrown at you trying to turn you but they, too, are pretty much horse hockey because you'll have to have something to come out for. It's a long journey and what is even worse, and hypocritical, is there would be people that would absolutely HATE you if you did! Have you ever given thought to why that would be?

Men love men all the time. We all have friends we'd die for - that's love even though most would be loath to admit it. Hell, the Marines make an institution out of it! But the first guy that tries to bugger his buddy in a fox hole will probably get buried in it because that's just going a bit over the line!

There’s a lot of things I’m not saying here either because no one wants to get that personal on a public forum.

Well,i can't wake up one day and be "Straight" i mean i can't change my sexuality,

as far as "Lifestyle" there is no one "Gay Lifestyle" many get grouped into the "Promiscuous sex hounds" who drink all day and try to sleep with everything they see, are there some like? sure, just like there are straight men like that, my lifestyle differs from another gay male in that i'm a Drag Queen.

i want to acknowledge that i am not sitting here defending every homosexual as saints, there are bad people that are homosexuals as there are bad people that are straight, bad people come in every sex,gender,race and religion. i'm not here to pretend we are above everything. but we are ( the majority of the time) on the end of the stick that deals with discrimination and other such verbal/physical abuse.

i also want to acknowledged that i am aware politicians and political groups are using this to their advantage, if i truly thought a politician cared about us this would have ended a long time a go instead of being dragged (no pun intended) around. i'm glad that there is a bigger spotlight on us and the true causes we are striving for, Equality, the end of hate, the end of bullying, but at the same time we are being used as another pawn in the political game

reply to post by Darth_Prime


Well, answer me this, if you will, Darth. Are you in the U.S. and, if so, what area? Just trying to get a handle on your environment. Given your determination to go down this route I hope you're in a city and state that allows you to defend yourself. If so, and you aren't carrying, I'd talk to any friends of the same persuasion that do and possibly get some training. I say this out of genuine concern for your safety.

I think you said a few posts back that you were still pretty young. If you're in your 20's still I have to say that this area of life is one that, when it becomes retrospect, is where you realize that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Physiologically they're finding out, more and more, the brain's just beginning to get settled in to a smooth operating machine by the late 20's and there's been some evidence that the final stages of this have been moving up the age ladder for some reason. Not being judgmental here, just saying.

In reading back through your posts in this thread I see you've mentioned the time (times?) you were asked to leave a store while you were in drag. Are you always in drag? I've seen this same question asked by people who go "whole-hog" on tattoos. They, for the life of them, can't understand why people are afraid of them and nothing registers when they look in the mirror. Personally I'll admit it kills my heart to see a reasonably attractive person mark their face up like that. You just can not look them in the eye or be serious with them. They look out through the same eyes and see the world the same way but those looking back ... don't. At least you can take your makeup off.

Darth, mark my words, there is not one of us that does not struggle with some area of our lives. I, for one, literally can NOT watch Toy Story II. All of that franchise is hilarious up until it comes to the point they've left the toys in the Salvation Army bin. At that point I have to either jump the movie ahead or just leave the room. I've struggled with a soft heartedness that has limited me in many ways throughout my life and, yes, both parents had this trait in common. With all the moving I did and the resultant loss of things and people I cared for as a kid it probably cemented that pain into my psyche long ago. But, over the years, you learn how to deal with things. At this "great age" I'm at, like the Viagra commercials say, "you're at the age where you know how to get things done". You also come to realize that the "looking back" perspective helps you.

Don't know if you're an outright atheist or what but, God love ya, buddy, and He does regardless, the whole of humanity has been victimized on one level or another. If we weren't we'd all be sitting around on futons eating potato chips and watching endless re-runs of "I Love Lucy" because the world would literally come to a halt ... then we'd die and something else would take our place. Struggle is a big part of what keeps the world spinning.

I still can't say that I'm agreeing with you on your aspirations. The world is a confusing place because you'll always find - ALWAYS - those that support you and those that disagree to the point of asking you to leave their presence. Personally, I'll admit that, when I was in my 20's, you would not have found this kind of support from me. It's not that times change it's that the mind we see the world with gets a better handle on how it works and how the world actually is dynamically. I am still of the opinion - and it's not a "professional" one - that you're dealing with a fetish and a psychosis. That being said - congratulations!! You're officially a member of the human race!

reply to post by Ollie769


gurl trust, i cry over everything "Softhearted" is not a problem, own it!

yes, i am 23, in Hollywood,Ca. i wont carry a Gun, though i have numerous times been on the end of abuse, and not always in Drag. in fact when i was asked to leave a store i wasn't in Drag, do i always wear drag? no, not always. i do wear eye makeup (liner, shadow) and lip gloss, have i gone out in "Day Drag" yes.

i know it may sound like i'm always saying "Woe is the Gay community' who only suffer, kids get bullied all the time for various reasons, adults get bullied various times for no reason, it's not just gays. but coming from my background and the victim of abuse of all kinds i feel like i shouldn't hide my voice or silence me. i also would stand up for anyone who is facing bullying or discrimination regardless of gender,sexuality, race or religion.

and i feel we as Humans should feel that compassion for people.

reply to post by whyamIhere


Then why aren't you crying about the black agenda or the woman agenda? That bulletin list applies to black people and women as well. They demanded equal treatment and they got it. You sound like 18th century segregationists did. So tell me, what is this gay agenda supposed to achieve?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

Then why aren't you crying about the black agenda or the woman agenda? That bulletin list applies to black people and women as well. They demanded equal treatment and they got it.

I think it's wrong for LGBT's to leech off other people's battles by comparing them as if it were the same. Having a darker skin has nothing to do with wanting to # someone in the ass. The same goes for women's rights, a woman does a job and gets less pay for it than a male that's just unfair.

There is the right way of doing it and there is everything else, the former produces life and the latter does not. So anyone claiming the latter is true must be corrected of this, without ofcourse abuse. It must be recognized as untrue, not as something which can possibly come true. Right now no one may correct this, as in say anything negative about it without getting public opinion against them.

You sound like 18th century segregationists did. So tell me, what is this gay agenda supposed to achieve?

To change the hearts and minds of people regarding the subject. It does not add to life and those supporting that are not on the side of adding to life. How will this look in a decade or 2, because it's only since the seventies psychiatry lost the battle. In a few generations, children will grow up thinking it's normal, so doing it wrong would become normal and nobody would view it as wrong, nobody there to say anything about it.

Don't get me wrong I'm not someone who would protest against it but it's just sad to see the human spirit become like that, forever drifting away from nature, it's natural feeling of right and wrong all screwed up slowly.

reply to post by Darth_Prime

“gurl trust, i cry over everything "Softhearted" is not a problem, own it!”

LOL. I’m not sure but you may have just made my point. Like I’ve said before in this thread allowing your emotions to rule your life is one of the biggest stumbling blocks to getting anywhere. Like it or not, though, you’ll have to succumb to some type of convention to make money … legally … and a living. If it weren’t for the “soft heartedness” problem I could have made a good career in the Navy – but it would have cost me my marriage so I guess it was a pretty good trade-off.

To throw some irony into the equation regarding soft heartedness, for the first 2/3rds of my life … hopefully … I was an avid hunter and still enjoy it. I’ve cut way back, however, because the whole “right of passage” thing is way, way behind me and I know after you pull the trigger it’s all just work after that. My dad quit after the first deer he got as a teenager because it tore him up so badly but he never said anything to me about my hunting. Whether he wanted to talk to me about it or not I’ll never know “on this side the veil” as he died when I was 13. Beyond that one of my maternal uncles in California, the bi/homosexual one, kept feeding me anti-hunting and anti-gun propaganda throughout my “kid-hood.” Just goes to show the inner workings of the mind are complex and rarely produce the results one would expect given certain inputs and pre-programming from genes.

“i am 23, in Hollywood,Ca. … in fact when i was asked to leave a store i wasn't in Drag”

Holy Crap! They did that to you in Hollywood? California?? What were you shooting for in your makeup – Alice Cooper? If you can scare them that badly there perhaps you have a potential career waiting for you in the film industry as a makeup artist. Seriously, I’m flummoxed that that would happen to you there. I was afraid you were living somewhere in the Bible Belt.

I’ve been to California many times, my uncle, yes, that one, lived in Santa Monica; I was stationed in San Diego and wouldn’t have wanted to be anywhere else during that time. I’d love to drive Highway 1 one more time and see Hurst Castle before it’s gone – either totally Communist and secedes or slips off into the ocean. Watching people go by when I was there was a lot of fun for a kid from West Texas.

“Well,i can't wake up one day and be "Straight" i mean i can't change my sexuality,”

You said this a couple of posts back and it’s been running around my head since then. Apparently you are right there. Here’s an article that backs that up.

I think it was another thread I was talking to with another member when I said “we’re all dealt a certain set of cards at conception and we deal with them until we die”. One of our “assignments” in life is to learn how to deal with those cards in a constructive manner.

“but coming from my background and the victim of abuse of all kinds i feel like i shouldn't hide my voice or silence me. i also would stand up for anyone who is facing bullying or discrimination regardless of gender,sexuality, race or religion.”

And I’m with you on that 100%. Bullying is a human trait that stems from fear at its lowest levels. I’ve always been interested in how the mind works, hence, a lot of the things I’ve written here in this thread. I may live out here in West Texas but the last thing I may be is a “good ol’ boy”. That little clique all too often carries through from childhood and results in nothing more than a higher level of adult bullying. It's one thing to kid around with friends for fun but God gave me an “out” by getting me into work I loved in technology and finally into ranching that didn’t require a whole lot of interaction with the “hold my beer, watch this” crowd. I hope the length, level and direction of this conversation, at least between us, has indicated something to that effect.

You’ve certainly started off in life at a deficit, being homeless and experiencing abuse as you have, but I hope you look at your youth as an asset in terms of length of time left to learn. The vast majority of the Bible is meant to help you get to that old age where you can look back and say “what the Hell was I thinking??” But all too often people would rather concentrate on the spirituality/mysticism part to the point it becomes nothing more than rank superstition masquerading as intelligence – or worse as Jim Jones proved out to be. That was before your time, though. Don’t toss that baby out with the bath water!