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A Question to the Scot's Here on ATS? ....

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posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 08:39 AM
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Soloprotocol

DrunkYogi

Soloprotocol

DrunkYogi

Soloprotocol
I was wondering when this would turn into a Irish/Catholic/Protestant train wreck...it only took to page 8 or so....leave it out please.


Here are two banners that where flown at the Celtic game last night. Now you can hopefully see where i am coming from. There is a definite underlying religious issue to do with the SNP independence issue.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk...

I know exactly were you are coming from...... you are a Unionist/Loyalist.



Wrong again mate! I can't stand Royalty. I just open my eyes and look at the situation from a neutral stand point. If you do that then it's easier to see the Garbage that are the SNP. You wont find me tainted with the sectarian brush mate but i see where your coming from, it's easy to taint somebody and dismiss their argument.

Well your eyes were firmly closed when you posted this piece of Garbage about Alex Salmond being suspended from the party for his.."alleged" Association with Sien Fein... Seee Below.


DrunkYogi

Soloprotocol

DrunkYogi

Soloprotocol

DrunkYogi
Most of my fellow Scot's get on great with English people. I always has a great time when i went there. We are better together, we don't need that twat Salmond stirring up the sh*t. His vote is gonna get it's ass kicked.

Typical Unionist claptrap. It's not Alex's Vote...it's the people of Scotland's Vote for Independence, not a vote for Alex Salmond....some people just dont get that.
edit on 26-11-2013 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



Well the people where happy enough to be part of the Union before this buffoon came along. Just about all of the problems Salmond talks about us poor Scot's suffering is also happening to English and Welsh people. The guy's a fool.

The SNP was founded in the 1930's...it's Not Alex's baby you know.


I know it's not his Sprog. He got suspended by the party for the 79 group's association with Sien fein. They hide their real beliefs behind the Saltire.


Here you go.....


Then, a leak of '79 Group minutes to the media raised the prospect of links with the Provisional Sinn Fein. Despite claims the leaked version was inaccurate, Mr Wilson had had enough. His view that the party had to unite or die led to a ban on organised groups, but when the '79 Group refused to go quietly, seven of its members were briefly expelled from the party. They included Scotland's future justice secretary, Kenny MacAskill, and one Alex Salmond.


www.bbc.co.uk...




posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by Elijah23
 



Your post makes it all sound so simple! so carefree! so confident!

Quote >>>

"When (not IF) we become independent and nationalise the oil, we will take our

rightful place as the 4th richest nation on the planet" ... (so pleased we no longer

have the laughing emo ...Lol) and still no links to 'credible' sources?

You sound like a kid with their first 'wage packet' unaware of the obligatory

deductions, and without any knowledge of day to day living expenses!


Oh and just as an aside while you are comparing Scotland with Norway, Norway has

one of the highest costs of living in the world, consumer prices in the UK are 32.87%

LOWER than that in Norway inc. rents and transport.



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by tdk84
 




Not to mention together we have the political clout to tell Europe where to stuff it on some issues...


We are trying - I don't know where any of us would stand if Scotland votes for independence.



would and independent Scotland?


I very much doubt Scotland would have any chance of resisting the EU.
If, and it's a massive if, Scotland is granted full membership immediately it will come at a very high price - the Euro and / or an even greater loss of sovereignty.

I accept that many in an independent Scotland would have no desire to join the EU - but that isn't the message Salmon and SNP are portraying.

I sometimes really wonder what Salmond's real intent is.
He try's to portray himself as some sort of Moses like character leading Scotland out of slavery, through the wilderness and into The Promised Land of Independence and Freedom....but I wonder.

He's certainly doing his best to piss off everyone outside of Scotland.



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 08:48 AM
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Why is it that people seem to think that those who want to vote 'yes' are somehow seeing independence through rose tinted glasses and riding on Salmonds coat tails?
reply to post by angelchemuel
 


Because they are. They are being took along for a ride on Alex Salmond's ego trip. He has tried to whip up disgusting Nationalism and cause trouble at all costs. We are all supposed to shout Braveheart and act like racist morons. I mean he worked for RBS, what a great group of people they are and he has link's to Sein Fein the IRA's political wing. If some people want to forget this guy's past they can. Me, i tend not to forget thing's like that.



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by DrunkYogi
 


I think I've made it perfectly clear that I dislike Salmond intensely but as I posted previously leaked minutes from The 79 Group meetings made it perfectly clear that Salmond opposed any links to Sinn Fein or any other Irish nationalist organisation.

As far as I'm aware he's never publicly commented on his thoughts on Irish Nationalism etc.
Whatever his personal and private thoughts are he's entitled to them.

The man has many faults, as far as I'm aware this isn't one of them.
edit on 28/11/13 by Freeborn because: grammar and clarity



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 08:55 AM
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Freeborn
reply to post by tdk84
 




Not to mention together we have the political clout to tell Europe where to stuff it on some issues...


We are trying - I don't know where any of us would stand if Scotland votes for independence.



would and independent Scotland?


I very much doubt Scotland would have any chance of resisting the EU.
If, and it's a massive if, Scotland is granted full membership immediately it will come at a very high price - the Euro and / or an even greater loss of sovereignty.

I accept that many in an independent Scotland would have no desire to join the EU - but that isn't the message Salmon and SNP are portraying.

I sometimes really wonder what Salmond's real intent is.
He try's to portray himself as some sort of Moses like character leading Scotland out of slavery, through the wilderness and into The Promised Land of Independence and Freedom....but I wonder.

He's certainly doing his best to piss off everyone outside of Scotland.


I assume they would have to join the E.U to enjoy the free trade agreements given how much of there exports go to Europe.

Yes his agenda does seems odd, ditch the British union for a diminished European one.
edit on 28-11-2013 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 09:08 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 



Lol...Lol... What a gem!! What a picture!! Lol... priceless I can just picture that!



"Alex Salmond as some sort of Moses like character leading Scotland out of

slavery, through the wilderness and into the Promised Land of Independence"


In the end the choice for the Scots is :-

Currency The pound vs The Euro

Union The UK vs The EU


Hmmm..... From the frying pan into the fire?



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 10:06 AM
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eletheia

Hmmm..... From the frying pan into the fire?



Quite the definition, but in all seriousness i'm struggling to see the advantages. Salmond has wasted a golden opportunity to really answer the questions about the feasibility and advantages of independence and he hasn't even answered half the issues and which ones he has, seem to go against what everyone else is saying (like Europe). Waste of money.

The trick up his sleeve seems to be to try brain wash everyone with promises, childcare etc.

The only agenda I can fathom is he just wants power and is trying to dupe the public with this Savior of Scotland against the evil English thing. I guess you cant fault the tactics, its a large niche.
edit on 28-11-2013 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 11:01 AM
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DrunkYogi

Soloprotocol

DrunkYogi

Soloprotocol

DrunkYogi

Soloprotocol
I was wondering when this would turn into a Irish/Catholic/Protestant train wreck...it only took to page 8 or so....leave it out please.


Here are two banners that where flown at the Celtic game last night. Now you can hopefully see where i am coming from. There is a definite underlying religious issue to do with the SNP independence issue.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk...

I know exactly were you are coming from...... you are a Unionist/Loyalist.




Wrong again mate! I can't stand Royalty. I just open my eyes and look at the situation from a neutral stand point. If you do that then it's easier to see the Garbage that are the SNP. You wont find me tainted with the sectarian brush mate but i see where your coming from, it's easy to taint somebody and dismiss their argument.

Well your eyes were firmly closed when you posted this piece of Garbage about Alex Salmond being suspended from the party for his.."alleged" Association with Sien Fein... Seee Below.


DrunkYogi

Soloprotocol

DrunkYogi

Soloprotocol

DrunkYogi
Most of my fellow Scot's get on great with English people. I always has a great time when i went there. We are better together, we don't need that twat Salmond stirring up the sh*t. His vote is gonna get it's ass kicked.

Typical Unionist claptrap. It's not Alex's Vote...it's the people of Scotland's Vote for Independence, not a vote for Alex Salmond....some people just dont get that.
edit on 26-11-2013 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



Well the people where happy enough to be part of the Union before this buffoon came along. Just about all of the problems Salmond talks about us poor Scot's suffering is also happening to English and Welsh people. The guy's a fool.

The SNP was founded in the 1930's...it's Not Alex's baby you know.


I know it's not his Sprog. He got suspended by the party for the 79 group's association with Sien fein. They hide their real beliefs behind the Saltire.


Here you go.....


Then, a leak of '79 Group minutes to the media raised the prospect of links with the Provisional Sinn Fein. Despite claims the leaked version was inaccurate, Mr Wilson had had enough. His view that the party had to unite or die led to a ban on organised groups, but when the '79 Group refused to go quietly, seven of its members were briefly expelled from the party. They included Scotland's future justice secretary, Kenny MacAskill, and one Alex Salmond.


www.bbc.co.uk...


Here ye Go...We could play this game all night and into the next day if you wish, I'll call truce.

"Early in 1982, Sinn Féin wrote inviting a 79 Group speaker to its ardfheis (conference). With Provisional Irish Republican Army violence ongoing, Sinn Féin were considered unacceptable to public opinion in the UK. Alex Salmond moved to reject the request and won,"

Just for your information, this quote was taken from Wiki and has been used and butchered to suit others agendas for years...Here's an example...notice what part are plagiarised and what is conveniently left out.

en.wikipedia.org...

thebritishresistance.co.uk...

And Here..


www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 28-11-2013 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 11:03 AM
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Freeborn
reply to post by DrunkYogi
 


I think I've made it perfectly clear that I dislike Salmond intensely but as I posted previously leaked minutes from The 79 Group meetings made it perfectly clear that Salmond opposed any links to Sinn Fein or any other Irish nationalist organisation.

As far as I'm aware he's never publicly commented on his thoughts on Irish Nationalism etc.
Whatever his personal and private thoughts are he's entitled to them.

The man has many faults, as far as I'm aware this isn't one of them.
edit on 28/11/13 by Freeborn because: grammar and clarity


I've covered that in my post above...... Cheers



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by tdk84
 



My sentiments exactly!!...I'm with you all the way right down to his agenda ...I think

he has 'short man' syndrome (viz. Napoleon Bonaparte)


The trouble with politicians of all hue's is that they make promises they cannot keep

My views on this are for every promise put forward they should have to say

where they are taking the money from.


He wants power? ... It's written all over him www.uncyclopedia.wikia.com...

He's desperate to go down in history viz. William Wallace .... but I fear his obituary is

more likely to be >>> Long on promises short on details



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 11:58 AM
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beansidhe
reply to post by angelchemuel
 


I'll just wade through the testosterone and buy you a virtual pint.

Cheers!


I know exactly what you mean.
Rainbows
Jane



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by Soloprotocol
 

I guess he got suspended for nothing then! Happens all the time...........




posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 01:10 PM
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I would like to see all 4 countries of Britain: England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland have their own identified political independence, with their own parliaments, and each country sending an equal amount of delegates for a government of Britain to be formed.

So, in a sense, we would have 4 separate governments, and one over-arching government. Firstly, each country would need to have full independence from England, including Ireland to be fully repatriated, meaning the dissolution of Northern Ireland into that of a whole Ireland. On gaining full independence, each country would hold 2 elections, one for their own government from the various political parties, and another election to set up a government of Great Britain. This obviously has echoes of America's federal and state government structures.

The government of Great Britain would deliver a written constitution which all 4 countries would agree to abide by, guaranteeing personal freedom and privacy for the citizen, and because the government of Great Britain is made up of equal delegates from each country with a rotating Presidency, each country would be equally served its interests, both domestically and internationally, with no one country dominating.



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 



Erm....did you read the whole article, because I did and it also says this...



Mr Salmond said a letter from the office of the EC secretariat general stated it would be "legally possible" to negotiate from within, adding that Prof James Crawford, who had advised the UK government on Europe, said the timescale "seems realistic".

The first minister also told MSPs that Sir David Edwards, who formerly served as a British judge in the European Courts of Justice, had commented that EU institutions and member states would be "obliged to enter into negotiations before separation took effect", to determine future relationships.


It would also appear that Mariano Rajoy being Spanish (I've never trusted the Spanish hierarchy) ...



strongly opposes an independence referendum being held in the Spanish region of Catalonia


I'm not trying to have an argument, I'm just trying to point out the other part of the same report.
Rainbows
Jane



edit on 28-11-2013 by angelchemuel because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by DrunkYogi
 

Please don't cherry pick my post. I also said this...



Why is it that people seem to think that those who want to vote 'yes' are somehow seeing independence through rose tinted glasses and riding on Salmonds coat tails?

From what I can see, especially those who are recognising Salmond is just a 'mouthpiece' and a bad one at that, who could very well end up scuppering any chance Scotland has for independence, are Scots who are actually thinking for themselves.

To paint all 'yes' voters with one brush stroke as some sort of romantic fools crying 'freedom' is very derogatory, demeaning and insulting.


Rainbows
Jane



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 02:08 PM
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I am scottish and have lived all over the world.

After that I never really understood this romantic notion of independence.

Why would a small country seek to make itself even smaller? The world has changed significantly and we are far more multicultural and integrated.

The scots ranting "freedom" and quoting Mel Gibson scare me - they are basing their opinion on emotion rather than economic and political reality.

Just why?

I am actually not looking for a response to that question...it's an exclamation.



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by selfharmonise
 

Here's a list of the top 10 wealthiest countries in the world...



# 1) Qatar

# 2) Luxembourg

# 3) Singapore

# 4) Norway

# 5) Brunei

# 6) USA

# 7) UAE

# 8) Switzerland

# 9) Kuait

# 10) Australia.

This was posted on page 12, 6th post down by eletheia. It would appear to me that the top 5 are pretty small geographically as well.....each with different resources that have made them wealthy....just saying.
Rainbows
Jane



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 02:17 PM
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selfharmonise
I am scottish and have lived all over the world.

After that I never really understood this romantic notion of independence.

Why would a small country seek to make itself even smaller? The world has changed significantly and we are far more multicultural and integrated.

The scots ranting "freedom" and quoting Mel Gibson scare me - they are basing their opinion on emotion rather than economic and political reality.

Just why?

I am actually not looking for a response to that question...it's an exclamation.


The only people ranting about "Freedom and Quoting Mel Gibson" are the pro unionist...I cant stick the Shortbread tin, Tartan cladded, The Bruce/Wallace mentality as much as the next man/Woman.
I CAN see a Bright future for a free and independent Scotland though, it will be a struggle for a number of years. you just have to have the Bollocks to make it work, and that's a decision for the people who choose to live here....be them Scots Born or not.



posted on Nov, 28 2013 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by angelchemuel
 



Its wildly unrealistic to expect Scotland to get any special treatment. In this case i'm more inclined to believe the Spaniard. Scotland will have to apply for EU membership and it will be granted after agreeing to take the Euro.

Why would Scotland be offered terms no other applicant gets?

Thats not the Apocalypse but I see it as entirely less desirable than what we have now.



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