Some U.S. Cities Have Higher Gun Violence Than ENTIRE Nations — Check This Map

Oh .. now I get it ... this is an 'anti-guns in America' thread ...
I wondered what the purpose was ... now I see it.

Lady_Tuatha
So do you think that some cities being 'crime ridden' justifies them having higher gun violence than some entire Nations?

You have to understand the psychology that goes on in parts of those cities.
Certain populations of those cities hug the 'victim mentality'.
They make personal bad choices. They blame everyone except themselves for their situations.
They don't try to improve their situation but instead wallow in it.

If you ... being anti-gun ... took away the gun rights of Americans, then those criminals in the cities would still have their attitudes and their guns, but law abiding Americans would be defenseless against them. Law abiding Americans would follow the anti-gun laws ... but the criminals in the inner cities would not. And they'd be able to get their hands on guns no matter what. That's their culture.

If you want gun violence to go down in the cities, you have to change the inner-city culture. That would mean making them take responsibility for their actions. That would mean making them make better life choices. That would mean forcing them to spend money on education instead of drugs. That would mean getting them to actually not make a pile of babies that they can't afford. (72% of black Americans are born out of wedlock) etc etc

The violence in those cities isn't the fault of the gun. It's the fault of the inner city culture.

Equador gun homicide 2008: 12.7
Population-15,223,680

Texas Population-26,059,200
Texas gun homicide rate:11.00

Pppplzzz this infographic is so booty! They put Austin on there give me a break

TDawgRex

Lady_Tuatha

crazyewok
reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

American flamewar in 5 4 3 2 1

Heres a tip iv learned just let America have there silly guns and let it be. As long as they dont bring em over here.

You can throw all the stats u like at them they wont listen andwill just throw twisted stats back how the uk is some crime ridden dangrous hell hole cause we dont allow assault rifles.

yeah I think you are completely right.

Like talking to a brick wall.

Then why bring it up? Unless you have a anti-gun agenda. The anti-gun and pro-gun people can throw stats at each other all day long. They can be twisted to fit the argument on either side.

Please, just let us have our silly tools and leave it at that.

Yes we do see plenty of twisting going on, that is true.

Just thought I would share the article, I mean that's what ATS is about, sharing information and denying ignorance

*noted for future what a sore point this seems to be*

TDawgRex
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Maybe we should ask the Irish to stop being drunks or that the Brits should learn how to cook.

Very intelligent argument there oh now why didn't I think of resorting to stereotyping and namecalling

this thread is about statistical propaganda and how it can be used in a persuasive manner

The variables (which can be anything) used are gun violence in US cities compared to other nations.

Interesting indeed, however that is as much water as it can hold.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

I live in a city that is near one of your circled cities.

We have 71,000 people in the city and something like 150,000 if all neighborhoods are counted.
There are about 150 shootings every year here. More or less.
Delaware online article
ALL the shootings are in one part of the city.
The part of the city is poor/lower middle class and mostly black.
The vast majority of this city doesnt' have the shootings.
And yet, because of the inner city shootings, we have a high gun crime rate.

Lady_Tuatha

TDawgRex
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Maybe we should ask the Irish to stop being drunks or that the Brits should learn how to cook.

Very intelligent argument there

oh now why didn't I think of resorting to stereotyping and namecalling

I was being factitious, that's why I put the "Duh" emoticon there. I don't actually believe those remarks. But when it comes to firearms, it often comes down to calling Americans names, like rednecks, hillbillies, etc. If this thread continues, I guarantee you that someone will sling those barbs.

I would think that if you post a survey such as this that you be expecting a response that differed from the surveys point of view (or your own). One way conversations are boring.

TDawgRex

Lady_Tuatha

TDawgRex
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Maybe we should ask the Irish to stop being drunks or that the Brits should learn how to cook.

Very intelligent argument there

oh now why didn't I think of resorting to stereotyping and namecalling

I was being factitious, that's why I put the "Duh" emoticon there. I don't actually believe those remarks. But when it comes to firearms, it often comes down to calling Americans names, like rednecks, hillbillies, etc. If this thread continues, I guarantee you that someone will sling those barbs.

I would think that if you post a survey such as this that you be expecting a response that differed from the surveys point of view (or your own). One way conversations are boring.

So you thought you would start us off then with the namecalling.

Yeah of course I am going to get a different response to this article on this site with it having a higher majority of Americans. I mean if I posted this on a European site the responses would be much much different.

Lady_Tuatha
reply to post by Cancerwarrior

 

That doesnt change facts such as these listed above

- Washington D.C. (19) has a higher rate of gun homicide than Brazil (18.1).

- Atlanta's rate (17.2) is about the same as South Africa (17).

- Cleveland (17.4) has a higher rate than the Dominican Republic (16.3).

- Gun murder in Buffalo (16.5) is similar to Panama (16.2).

- Houston's rate (12.9) is slightly higher than Ecuador's (12.7).

- Gun homicide in Chicago (11.6) is similar to Guyana (11.5).

- Phoenix's rate (10.6) is slightly higher than Mexico (10).

You really dont think that there is something wrong when faced with this information? No? okay,

This is probably the wrong site for this, I sometimes forget that 'pro gun' Americans are the majority on here

Countries where either private ownership of guns are illegal or the people are so poor they couldn't afford one .22LR bullet. The numbers of those countries are mostly organized crime and govt hits.

What I think is funny about that little chart is the fact that places with the highest gun crimes are under some type of firearm ban or restriction.. so.. more guns? problem solved.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


In some cultures, women can't drive.

In other cultures, they kill you for being homosexual.

In American culture, guns are a part of the cultural identity. Freedom isn't taken lightly. Personal liberties are writ large upon the cultural phyche of America.
The freedom to have the choice is paramount.

With freedom though, comes responsibility and risk. Gun deaths are just the double-edged sword of freedom, the dark side (if you prefer).

beezzer
reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

In some cultures, women can't drive.

In other cultures, they kill you for being homosexual.

In American culture, guns are a part of the cultural identity. Freedom isn't taken lightly. Personal liberties are writ large upon the cultural phyche of America.
The freedom to have the choice is paramount.

With freedom though, comes responsibility and risk. Gun deaths are just the double-edged sword of freedom, the dark side (if you prefer).

I see what your saying but you can own a gun in most European countries, if not all, you just have to get a permit and they are regulated more.

which in my opinion is a lot better than having very high gun crime rates.

each to their own I guess

Lady_Tuatha

So you thought you would start us off then with the namecalling.

Yeah of course I am going to get a different response to this article on this site with it having a higher majority of Americans. I mean if I posted this on a European site the responses would be much much different.

I didn't call anyone names, but I was implying about the idiocy that the anti-gun crowd uses often when demonizing guns. I just reversed the scenario. If you took offense, that may give you a inkling on how many US citizens feel about their 2nd Amendment rights.

If I ask someone from the UK why they drive on the left hand side of the road, I'll probably be told, "Because it's the law." I'm fine with that answer.

The same applies to firearms here in the US. It's the law. You should be fine with that answer as well.

By the way, cars kill far more people than firearms, and there are plenty of statistics out there that prove that to be true, but there aren't a whole lot of people demanding that they be banned.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


It wasn't a stereotype or namecalling, I mean if you want to believe some statistics it's just the way it is.
alcoholireland.ie...

Over half of all Irish drinkers have a harmful pattern of drinking, that’s 4 in 10 women and 7 in 10 men who drink, which amounts to an estimated 1,453,250 adults

In 2012, the average Irish person aged 15+ drank 11.68 litres of pure alcohol
When we consider the fact that one in five adults in Ireland don’t drink alcohol, it means that those who do drink are consuming much more than the average consumption statistics show

The European average for annual alcohol consumption is 10.7 litres
If every adult aged 15+ in Ireland drank to the maximum low-risk weekly limit every week, average consumption for the year would be 9.2 litres

Average alcohol consumption in 2010 was 145% higher than the average amount consumed in 1960
Alcohol consumption in Ireland increased by 46% between 1987 (9.8 litres) and 2001 (14.3 litres) when our consumption reached a record high

Ireland continues to rank among the highest consumers of alcohol in the 26 countries in the enlarged EU.
From 1980 to 2010, average alcohol consumption in Europe decreased by an average of 15 per cent, while consumption in Ireland over that period increased by 24 per cent

Irish adults binge drink more than adults in any other European country, with 44 per cent of drinkers stating that they binge drink on a regular basis

The highest proportion of binge drinkers is in the 18-29 age group. Young people are also more likely to exceed the weekly low-risk limit for alcohol consumption

Now back on topic, are you aware of the studies that have been done showing that the FBI data that these stats tend to be based on are actually exaggerated because many times the shooting was found to be justified but the coding was never changed to reflect that? How about that suicides are included in the murder stats? Not to mention some of these stats for the countries being compared to are actually less than actual as some have already pointed out? How about the fact that some of these cities have populations near or larger than the entire country being compared to but with much less area(population density a factor??)

Lady_Tuatha

If it were a country, New Orleans (with a rate 62.1 gun murders per 100,000 people) would rank second in the world.

I was quite shocked when I lived in New Orleans with what I saw and learned.

A Vietnamese family owned and operated a small market/quick stop and would hire their own off-duty police officer for protection at night. One night the entire family was killed and robbed. It was mentioned in the papers. A few days later the _real_ story came out. There was a survivor.

The woman police officer working for the family that night, had unlocked the door and let the gang in. Who then executed the entire family, while the 14 year old daughter hid in the ceiling. The officer then split the money with the gang and left.



Another case came out because of an FBI sting. One New Orleans police officer had been getting a lot of complaints of abuse so they tapped his phone. The FBI brought charges against him after they got a recording of him, on his cell phone, giving a hit man step-by-step directions to the house of a woman that had filed charges against him. She was executed.



When I moved there I had no idea what I was getting into. Being a life-long advocate against oil economies, I always move very close to where I work and walk to work. The best jobs are usually in industrial zoned areas and consequently in the worst neighborhoods. I moved into a small apartment between the "Texas" and "Tradewinds" motels. Little did I know those two motels were full of hookers. I could see the pimps working the intersection out of my back kitchen window.

One day walking to work I saw a dead preacher on the side walk. Yellow tape everywhere and police cars. He would go into crack neighborhoods and try to convert people. My neighborhood was so bad, that is where they dump the bodies.

When people would come visit me I would tell them about how bad the neighborhood was. No one believed me. It didn't really look like anything. My little apartment over a body shop, a few small roads behind it. An abandoned railroad track.

One night a couple had visited, and we were getting ready to head down to the French Quarter for drinks and dancing, and as I told them stories of my neighborhood, they grew more and more incredulous. As we exited the back door of my apartment to take the stairs down to the gravel parking lot, the intersection behind my house was full of police cars, lights flashing, pimps and hoes laying on the ground, officers all over the place with guns drawn. Needless to say, the couple's expression changed.

Another instance my brother's truck lost two windows to a shoot out that night while we were sleeping.

I finally left new Orleans when the Police raided my apartment wearing surgical gloves, as though they were worried about leaving fingerprints. Turns out they were after my neighbor for cyber crime, but they hit me too just-in-case and seemed to know a lot about my computer already.

Mike

Lady_Tuatha

beezzer
reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

In some cultures, women can't drive.

In other cultures, they kill you for being homosexual.

In American culture, guns are a part of the cultural identity. Freedom isn't taken lightly. Personal liberties are writ large upon the cultural phyche of America.
The freedom to have the choice is paramount.

With freedom though, comes responsibility and risk. Gun deaths are just the double-edged sword of freedom, the dark side (if you prefer).

I see what your saying but you can own a gun in most European countries, if not all, you just have to get a permit and they are regulated more.

which in my opinion is a lot better than having very high gun crime rates.

each to their own I guess

Exactly. There's been much written on American Imperialism being spread to many other countries.
I think that is wrong.

I think that each country should foster their own identity, their own set of rules, freedoms, laws, definitions.

To homogenise the globe is to beg for a NWO.

And none of us want that. :-D

Lady_Tuatha
reply to post by Cancerwarrior

 

That doesnt change facts such as these listed above

- Washington D.C. (19) has a higher rate of gun homicide than Brazil (18.1).

- Atlanta's rate (17.2) is about the same as South Africa (17).

- Cleveland (17.4) has a higher rate than the Dominican Republic (16.3).

- Gun murder in Buffalo (16.5) is similar to Panama (16.2).

- Houston's rate (12.9) is slightly higher than Ecuador's (12.7).

- Gun homicide in Chicago (11.6) is similar to Guyana (11.5).

- Phoenix's rate (10.6) is slightly higher than Mexico (10).

You really dont think that there is something wrong when faced with this information? No? okay,

This is probably the wrong site for this, I sometimes forget that 'pro gun' Americans are the majority on here

And DC has a near total gun ban, as does Brazil.
South Africa has very strict gun control, as does Mexico, Panama, Ecuador, Guyana. Mexico has some of the strictest gun control in the world.

Chicago has some of the strictest gun control in the states.

Thus, I do not think that those statistics say what you want them to say, IE, legal gun ownership equals crime.

Secondly, "gun crime rates" as disingenuous because they neglect crime from other causes and seem to imply that crime is okay if it is not caused by a gun, which is pretty disgusting IMHO. The murder rate in the UK is higher now than it was before the gun bans took effect, but Brits seem to be okay with that as long as it was not a gun involved.

Lady_Tuatha

So do you think that some cities being 'crime ridden' justifies them having higher gun violence than some entire Nations?

Those cities and nations have one thing in common.

Corruption in Police and government, mixed with rules against common people having firearms.

Mike

Lady_Tuatha
you can own a gun in most European countries, if not all, you just have to get a permit and they are regulated more.

Do those European countries have the same demographics as the American inner cities that you listed? 72% of births being out of wedlock, almost 30% unemployment rates in some, household income of $15,000, etc ??? Unless the statistics match up ... you can't compare the two.

crazyewok
reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

American flamewar in 5 4 3 2 1

Heres a tip iv learned just let America have there silly guns and let it be. As long as they dont bring em over here.

You can throw all the stats u like at them they wont listen andwill just throw twisted stats back how the uk is some crime ridden dangrous hell hole cause we dont allow assault rifles.

Actually you do allow assault rifles. I've several British friends that are big into shooting over there and I have shot at their ranges. A Brit into guns today is like a gay guy in the US South in the 1950's. They exist but keep a low profile due to the prejudice of their fellow citizens.

You can own a semi automatic AR-15 in the UK as long as it is chambered in .22 long rifle.

You can own an AR-15 in .223 as long as it is manually operated.

It is easier to own a silencer in the UK. I could buy one off the shelf at a sporting goods shop and it is considered good manners to use. If I brought it back to the US, I'd be a felon instantly.

Guess who does not commit crimes in the UK...the law abiding gun owners. Guess who does not commit crime in the US...the law abiding gun owners.

Eliminate the chavs over there and you eliminate crime. Eliminate gangs over here and you eliminate crime.

The problem is not guns, either there or here, but of people.