Some U.S. Cities Have Higher Gun Violence Than ENTIRE Nations — Check This Map

There is a place alongside the road where so many stop and go no further...

Okay, let's try it this way -
Put 100 loaded guns on an island and leave them unmolested for 20 years. When you come back, chances are that all 100 of those fire arms... while older, have not killed another gun. They all survived, though rusty they may be.
On another isle, we place 100 people; men and women without a single gun. They can have access to TVs, computers, game consoles, movies, cars, carpeting, air conditioning, music, sports and even church for the religious. But NO guns. When you come back in 20 years... what are the odds that no one was murdered by way of sticks, stones, frying pans, pool sticks, poisons, choking, hanging, beheading, etc, etc, and of course, etc?

So, on the side of the road, we stop and select an inanimate object to carry the weight of the human condition. We go no further to find out why PEOPLE behave as they do because, well... it is easier to blame that object than delve the deeper meaning of who and what we are.

Cancerwarrior
Did you know that the US is number one in the world when it comes to gun ownership, but doesnt even crack the top 25 countries in gun murder rate?

Please do not bring in that extremely weak argument, which simply shows you are picking the statistics without having any understanding behind them...

In order to compare countries crime the countries need to have somewhat similar life standard, somewhat similar police force. You can not compare the statistics in a advanced country to 3rd world nation where poverty and crime rampage and local life quality is inexistent compared to advanced countries.

When US would be compared to any other advanced economy, they have over 4 times higher gun violence rate than any other.

reply to post by Cabin

Lady_Tuatha
reply to post by Cancerwarrior

 

That doesnt change facts such as these listed above

- Washington D.C. (19) has a higher rate of gun homicide than Brazil (18.1).

- Atlanta's rate (17.2) is about the same as South Africa (17).

- Cleveland (17.4) has a higher rate than the Dominican Republic (16.3).

- Gun murder in Buffalo (16.5) is similar to Panama (16.2).

- Houston's rate (12.9) is slightly higher than Ecuador's (12.7).

- Gun homicide in Chicago (11.6) is similar to Guyana (11.5).

- Phoenix's rate (10.6) is slightly higher than Mexico (10).

You really dont think that there is something wrong when faced with this information? No? okay,

This is probably the wrong site for this, I sometimes forget that 'pro gun' Americans are the majority on here

Well, if you were local, you would see immediate correlation: all the cities on the list are run by liberals, all of them have some form of gun restrictions, and all are infested with welfare mobs. Gun violence is a weasel term, designed to subliminally tie guns and violence together. Care to look for a map of Guns Save Lives? Don't waste your time, no such thing can exist in UN.

Cabin

Cancerwarrior
Did you know that the US is number one in the world when it comes to gun ownership, but doesnt even crack the top 25 countries in gun murder rate?

Please do not bring in that extremely weak argument, which simply shows you are picking the statistics without having any understanding behind them...

In order to compare countries crime the countries need to have somewhat similar life standard, somewhat similar police force. You can not compare the statistics in a advanced country to 3rd world nation where poverty and crime rampage and local life quality is inexistent compared to advanced countries.

When US would be compared to any other advanced economy, they have over 4 times higher gun violence rate than any other.

Kind of like the anti gun freedom types who pick the statistics without understanding behind them.

The Swiss have a greater per capita gun ownership than the US but less crime. The Czech republic has more liberal gun laws than the US, including concealed carry permits, and has less crime. Vermont has no state gun control and there you can even carry a handgun concealed without a license yet it has the lowest crime rate in the northeast.

Thus, logically, other factors than gun ownership must be involved...factors that those who seek to disarm their fellow man choose to ignore.

Cabin

Cancerwarrior
Did you know that the US is number one in the world when it comes to gun ownership, but doesnt even crack the top 25 countries in gun murder rate?

Please do not bring in that extremely weak argument, which simply shows you are picking the statistics without having any understanding behind them...

In order to compare countries crime the countries need to have somewhat similar life standard, somewhat similar police force. You can not compare the statistics in a advanced country to 3rd world nation where poverty and crime rampage and local life quality is inexistent compared to advanced countries.

When US would be compared to any other advanced economy, they have over 4 times higher gun violence rate than any other.

Your doing the same thing cherry picking the criteria!

How about population size or ethnic diversity of those advanced nations?

With over 300,000,000 people of diverse ethnicity and huge chunk of land. You can find any stat your looking for here. Its a numbers game and we have plenty of them.

Cabin
You can not compare the statistics in a advanced country to 3rd world nation where poverty and crime rampage and local life quality is inexistent compared to advanced countries.

Using your method of measurement .. you have to measure the fact that the gun crimes in those cities mentioned are all inner city gun crimes and not part of the majority of the population.

If you are going to compare statistics ... then do it right ...
I gave the examples. Compare like to like ....

The inner cities of the USA is where the vast majorities of the gun crimes are. Uneducated, unemployed, drug and alcohol issues, bad personal choices (lots of kids and no way to support them), gang involvement etc etc. all mostly contained in certain sections of the cities. Now go match those demographics up with the other countries ... as opposed to taking America as a whole and matching it up against those other countries.

America has micro-pockets of cultures and crime.

NavyDoc

And DC has a near total gun ban, as does Brazil.
South Africa has very strict gun control, as does Mexico, Panama, Ecuador, Guyana. Mexico has some of the strictest gun control in the world.

Chicago has some of the strictest gun control in the states.

Thus, I do not think that those statistics say what you want them to say, IE, legal gun ownership equals crime.

Secondly, "gun crime rates" as disingenuous because they neglect crime from other causes and seem to imply that crime is okay if it is not caused by a gun, which is pretty disgusting IMHO. The murder rate in the UK is higher now than it was before the gun bans took effect, but Brits seem to be okay with that as long as it was not a gun involved.

edit on 29-10-2013 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)

Gun Control works as long as there is nearly no way of getting guns inside. It is not easy to get guns to some area, when every person on the border is searched through. Some people might get it through, but due to large risk, the black market prices go very high.

You are bringing examples of countries where border control is inexistent or extremely corrupt and crime is flourishing due to poverty.

Washington gun control would work, when the only way of getting there would be through border control.

What is the point of trying to limit something, when a person can drive hundred miles and get the product legally...

Only national gun laws works, otherwise these are ineffective. When even one EU nation decided to lose gun laws, gun violence would increase in every EU nation due to open borders.

US has higher non-firearm homicide rates than UK. I have talked to many British people about the crime wave in 60s and to be honest, I have not heard an Englishman bringing up the guns argument. I have only heard American pro-gun people trying to use it as an argument. There were other reasons for the crime going up - it was a mix of all different things - drugs trade flourishing which added a lot to organised crime, lower class becoming poorer due to less blue-collar jobs, weakening education levels among the poor, stagnated salaries. Although currently UK has reached back to such levels. Despite these considered high in local standards when compared to US, the total amount of murders in UK is merely a third of how many people are killed in US with firearms. When UK gun violence is also counted in, the total UK homicide rates equals to US non-firearm murder rates. More people are shot accidentally to death in US than the total amount of people killed with guns in UK... All these stats were per capita, which means population sizes were considered.

Cabin
Gun Control works as long as there is nearly no way of getting guns inside. ... Washington gun control would work, when the only way of getting there would be through border control.

WTH??? Dude .... you are calling for guns to be outlawed AND a police state to frisk every person walking the streets? Comeon ... be real.

It's very simple - Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns.

reply to post by Cabin

Please do not bring in that extremely weak argument, which simply shows you are picking the statistics without having any understanding behind them...

Sorry, but its you who obviously does'nt understand.

The US has more gun owners than anywhere in the world......

25 other countries (that have less gun owners per capita) have more gun violence than the US.

Stop and think about that a second.

Are gun laws really the problem?

You are bringing examples of countries where border control is inexistent or extremely corrupt and crime is flourishing due to poverty.

Maybe you don't know that the US has the longest unfortified border than any nation in the world? Maybe you haven't heard about the things going on around the Mexican border? Do you really think stopping guns from going anywhere is going to stop criminals from getting them? If you do then you are a very naive person.

How is that working out with drugs?

FlyersFan

Cabin
Gun Control works as long as there is nearly no way of getting guns inside. ... Washington gun control would work, when the only way of getting there would be through border control.

WTH??? Dude .... you are calling for guns to be outlawed AND a police state to frisk every person walking the streets? Comeon ... be real.

It's very simple - Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns.

Don't take the bait FlyersFan,

That is the latest liberal talking point. Saying that gun-free zones work, it's just the outsiders to blame. Brought to us by the same people who refused to enforce the US border for 100 years. Now we know what people in Washington really mean when they say border. The people inside Washington vs. the people outside Washington.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Not outlawed. Strong regulations - strong background checks, strong mental health requirements, proper required training on safety and handling, requirement for gun locker.

Legally anybody who qualifies can still get a gun, basically only people with mental issues might or crime background can not get one.

Due to closed borders, criminals do not get guns easily, which leads to lowered gun violence rates. At least that is how it is round here. Statistically speaking people have guns, even though I do not know anybody who has one, never seen one or heard a shot, although the amount of firearms in the hands of criminals is nearly non-existent. If a burglar comes or I am being robber, I never have to worry whether they have a gun or not. Criminals do not have, so even police (except Special Ops Teams) do not carry guns. If I wanted I would easily get one, although I just do not see the need for it,as it would be same as throwing away the money.

mikegrouchy
That is the latest liberal talking point. Saying that gun-free zones work, ..

ohhhhh .... well, in that case ... it's already proven that they don't.
It's already proven that if guns are outlawed then only outlaws will have guns.
So that 'gun free zone' argument is dead on arrival.

mikegrouchy

FlyersFan

Cabin
Gun Control works as long as there is nearly no way of getting guns inside. ... Washington gun control would work, when the only way of getting there would be through border control.

WTH??? Dude .... you are calling for guns to be outlawed AND a police state to frisk every person walking the streets? Comeon ... be real.

It's very simple - Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns.

Don't take the bait FlyersFan,

That is the latest liberal talking point. Saying that gun-free zones work, it's just the outsiders too blame. Brought to us by the same people who refused to enforce the US border for 100 years. Now we know what people in Washington really mean when they say border. The people inside Washington vs. the people outside Washington.

Any EU country would prove the point when taking the total gun violence rates into account. The gun laws are strict, but they work very well, considering the extremely low amount of gun violence.

Cabin
Strong regulations - strong background checks, strong mental health requirements, proper required training on safety and handling, requirement for gun locker.

.... and criminals will abide by the laws .. yeah, right.

Dude, there are already laws in place. Law abiding citizens follow them. And they aren't the
ones who are committing the crimes. Criminals can get guns anytime and anywhere. The laws
don't change that.

Due to closed borders, criminals do not get guns easily,

The cities with the hardest gun control laws are the ones that have the worst gun crimes.
The criminals get them, and the law abiding citizens can't protect themselves.

Cabin .. you've got it totally backwards.
Hang it up.

ActuallyActuary
[Gun violence is a weasel term, designed to subliminally tie guns and violence together.

Im sorry this made me LOL

subliminally tie really?


GUNS ARE DESIGNED FOR FREAKING VIOLNENCE

Im neutral on the gun debate but really? Least tell the bloody truth.

reply to post by Cabin

Not outlawed. Strong regulations - strong background checks, strong mental health requirements, proper required training on safety and handling, requirement for gun locker.

Legally anybody who qualifies can still get a gun, basically only people with mental issues might or crime background can not get one.

See, now this is where you are starting to get into trouble with this thinking.

Is a felony on your record from 20 years ago going to mean you can never own a firearm? Who is going to decide who is sane enough to own a gun? Does taking anti-depressants mean you're too crazy to own a gun? If so then that automatically nullifies half of Americans. Who is going to decide how much of a criminal you need to be? Who is going to decide who meets the "qualifications?"

I bet I can answer that. Good Ol Uncle that's who. If the power is given to uncle to regulate which civilians can have firearms then that makes government even bigger and more intrusive. And I don't know if oyu know this, but there are laws that make background checks something everyone has to do and they obviously aren't going to let people in mental wards have guns...

Outlawing firearms will do nothing. I don't understand your thinking on this.

Cabin
Any EU country would prove the point when taking the total gun violence rates into account. The gun laws are strict, but they work very well, considering the extremely low amount of gun violence.

Again .. you are failing to compare places that are similar.

Countries in Europe are tiny walk-across-the-border countries.
America is 3,000 miles across.
Countries in Europe don't have the same micro-cultures that America has.
You fail to understand the micro-culture of the uneducated inner-city drug infested mess.
Yet you want to lump it all together.
You compare America's micro-cultures to the full European culture. That's not an accurate comparison.

Harder gun laws would punish the law abiding Americans who are the vast majority here.
And it would only enable and embolden the micro-culture that ignores the laws and
who causes the vast majority of gun crimes in the USA.

What you want to do is irresponsible and simply can not work.

reply to post by FlyersFan


No, because social safety nets work well in preventing crime, although certain crime of course happens in more dense and poor districts. Even poor can live quite well, get good healthcare and strong education in most European countries

Population densities in largest European cities are higher than in US cities. Paris, Athens.Barcelona population densities for example are signifcantly higher than in any US city.

Just remember guns don't kill people..they just make it really, really easy.