Fluoride - Crazy people!

reply to post by superman2012

Ignorance on the subject? I'll have to tell that to my boss next shift at the water treatment plant.

lol... and the truth reveals its self. Now let me show you some people who are actually informed on the subject.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

Dumbed down? Or spoiled and entitled?

As technology gets better things get easier. There is a whole generation of people that wouldn't know what to do without this society. Everyone gets a trophy. No one is being taught how to think for themselves. This has nothing to do with fluoride. Unless of course you have something more than your opinion.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Truth reveals itself? Are you saying I’m the truth?

What "truth" do you believe to know now?

The belief that fluoridation began as a “communist plot” was pervasive throughout much of the early far-right opposition to fluoridation. This should not surprise many who are familiar with the Red Scare of the ‘forties and ‘fifties; when fears of communist infiltration where rampant. In The Fluoride Wars: How a Modest Public Health Measure Became America’s Longest Running Political Melodrama, authors R. Allan Freeze and Jay H. Lehr make the following observation: “One can also identify a historical time line associated with these objections, wherein each issue mirrors the tenor of its times. In the 1950s, wary citizens worried about communist plots. The 1960s saw a growth in concern over military–industrial conspiracies. The 1970s placed fluoridation in an environmental context. The issues of the 1980s and 1990s reflected societal obsessions with personal health, beauty, and aging. Even the diseases targeted by anti-fluoridation forces reflect the fears of the day, as early concerns over Down’s syndrome gave way to anxiety over heart disease, then cancer, and now AIDS.”

However, while new conspiracy theories and arguments have popped up over the decades, this belief still persists to some extent in the echo-chambers of the online anti-fluoridation community. Yet, this belief is little more than a myth based on the flimsiest of evidence.

Even Paul Connett, who heads up the Fluoride Action Network, a major anti-fluoridation organization, and co-author of The Case Against Fluoride, has said, “The historical evidence for this assertion is extremely weak. It is sad that the U.S. media has done such a bad job of educating the public on this issue that it is so easy for crazy ideas to fill the vacuum.”

I am in the process of watch yours (still with nothing to back it up) now will you read mine?

Link

reply to post by superman2012

This has nothing to do with fluoride.

I agree with you that there are certainly many other reasons behind the dumbing down of the Western world besides fluoridation, but I certainly believe that fluoride plays a role. They are so adamant about putting it in the water despite the fact that it's mass medication without consent, and I believe there's a very good reason for that (and it's not to keep our teeth cavity free because people in non-fluoridated nations are doing just as fine as us). If I want to apply fluoride to my teeth I will use toothpaste and apply it topically, making sure not to ingest the toothpaste because it contains fluoride, and fluoride is toxic, which is why is says not to swallow the toothpaste on the tube.

If you can explain to me one good reason for why fluoride should be INGESTED and also provide solid proof that it actually has a very positive affect compared to non-fluoridated nations, then you may have a legitimate point. But as far as I can see all you are doing is promoting modern myths, when claiming to be dispelling myths. The burden of proof is on you and your kind who seek to push mass fluoridation, not those who wish to have an untainted water supply. Have you even thought about those people who are allergic to fluoride? Have you ever thought about how they are supposed to bath and take showers and drink tap water?

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

If you can explain to me one good reason for why fluoride should be INGESTED and also provide solid proof that it actually has a very positive affect compared to non-fluoridated nations, then you may have a legitimate point. But as far as I can see all you are doing is promoting modern myths, when claiming to be dispelling myths. The burden of proof is on you and your kind why seek to push mass fluoridation, not those who wish to have an untainted water supply. Have you even thought about those people who are allergic to fluoride? Have you ever thought about how they are supposed to bath and take showers and drink tap water?

I don't believe it should be ingested. Scary huh?
What other way are you going to make sure that children/the poor/people with no knowledge of dental hygiene can get fluoride to help their teeth? That is why there are MAC's (Maximum Allowable Concentrations) so that there is no harm when drinking it.

What happens when any of the people mentioned above have teeth problems? If they can't afford a dentist, who do you think pays for them to get the minimum care? Social services. If they don't go to a dentist and wind up with heart disease caused by tooth decay (yes it's real, Google it) and have to go to a hospital, who do you think pays for it? You. Indirectly through your taxes.

Untainted water supply? Where are you going to find that in todays day and age? I would rather trust myself and other water treatment plant operators to make sure that the water is pathogen free and clean to drink. We have families too. You think that we would poison our own families? The anti-fluoride people have ZERO science backing them up. If you are going to say the Harvard study...well don't bother. Not only were none of those cases in the US (all in China except one from Iran) none of them had to do with water fluoridation at a treatment plant. They were about naturally occurring fluoride.

Not only do treatment plants in the west add fluoride, they also take fluoride out of the raw water to acceptable levels. How sure are you that your "untainted water supply" doesn't have fluoride in it? You test it 4 times a year? With what equipment? What third party lab do you send it to?

Who is allergic to fluoride? The funniest example of the fluoride placebo effect was in Cleveland. They were supposed to start fluoridating their water in June. They were getting calls that their dog was constipated, they can't make a decent cup of coffee, their plants are all dying. The funny thing is, they didn't start fluoridating until July because of unforseen problems.

Any more questions?

Edit: There are countries that do not fluoridate their water supply. There are also countries that add fluoride to their salt.

Better stay away from these foods as well!

reply to post by superman2012

I am in the process of watch yours (still with nothing to back it up) now will you read mine?

Funnily enough, there is no strong evidence in that article to back up your argument either. Simply half assed claims and personal opinions, like people shouldn't be allowed to vote on it democratically because the masses are essentially too stupid and too ill informed. Lol... so how about some hard data now to show how pointless fluoride actually is:



Now you can probably find other data sets which indicate that fluoride has positive affects on our teeth, and perhaps it does have an affect, but that affect is obviously not very great if no one can agree on how effective fluoride actually is. The most important question we must ask ourselves is this: are all the potential health risks worth this one debatable advantage? And is it still worth it knowing that a great deal of people strongly object to having their water supply medicated without their consent?

It's a matter of simple logic and practicality.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

There were quite a few links at the bottom of the article I posted. They were not someones opinion like in your YT video.
I can post them on here if you would like.

Superman2012 - I think you may have jumped a little too fast. Im not a herd thinker, nor do I shout and protest fluoride. I just simply dont want to drink it, its a chemical in the water that is not needed, at all. But you are the type of person I was refering too, when sometime display their opinion you automatically over react and jump to conclusions about someones opinions. We can all be friends and ingest what we want too. Calm down a bit, you seem amped.Also, yes you can inform people about the subject, but you seem to take it to heart rather than educating them.

reply to post by superman2012

What happens when any of the people mentioned above have teeth problems? If they can't afford a dentist, who do you think pays for them to get the minimum care?

You are assuming that without fluoride they would suffer a greater deal of teeth problems than other people, when the evidence doesn't point that way.

Not only do treatment plants in the west add fluoride, they also take fluoride out of the raw water to acceptable levels.

Something like 3.0% of the population on public water systems receive naturally occurring fluoride (calcium fluoride), the other 97% receive artificially fluoride water which contains the chemicals I mentioned earlier. It's also worth nothing that calcium is used to counter fluoride poisoning when it occurs. This redeeming factor indicates that the calcium in naturally formed calcium fluoride neutralizes much of fluoride's toxic effects.

Who is allergic to fluoride?

So now you just going to deny and remove from your mind the possibility that people are allergic to fluoride. I hardly know of one chemical that someone isn't allergic to. There are people allergic to grass, bread and even water. It's funny though, I just looked it up and most government sources try to claim that there is no solid evidence of people being allergic to fluoride. I myself am sensitive to fluoridated water, it makes my skin itchy and red, and it only happens when I shower in fluoridated water. If I use natural tank/rain water I am completely fine.

SullivanBlack
Superman2012 - I think you may have jumped a little too fast. Im not a herd thinker, nor do I shout and protest fluoride. I just simply dont want to drink it, its a chemical in the water that is not needed, at all. But you are the type of person I was refering too, when sometime display their opinion you automatically over react and jump to conclusions about someones opinions. We can all be friends and ingest what we want too. Calm down a bit, you seem amped.

Not at all. If someone said the moon was made out of cheese would you react without wonderment and excitement to teach them something?

If you had read all my posts (I know I went post crazy) you would see that I agreed with you. I don't feel it needs to be ingested, but it is the best practice right now to curb dental disease.

I also agreed that if this was about not wanting to ingest a chemical without having a say in it, I understand. Vote. Campaign. Be the change you want.

Saying the moon is made out of cheese when it isn't, doesn't help the cause. ( not saying you are saying that).

reply to post by superman2012

I don't feel it needs to be ingested, but it is the best practice right now to curb dental disease.

What... you think people are just going to use tap water as if it were a mouth wash and spit it out? Get real bud... your argument is weak and flawed in every regard. Admit it.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

You are assuming that without fluoride they would suffer a greater deal of teeth problems than other people, when the evidence doesn't point that way.

I'm not assuming anything. I provided you with an article that has links/sources.

Something like 3.0% of the population on public water systems receive naturally occurring fluoride (calcium fluoride), the other 97% receive artificially fluoride water which contains the chemicals I mentioned earlier. It's also worth nothing that calcium is used to counter fluoride poisoning when it occurs. This redeeming factor indicates that the calcium in naturally formed calcium fluoride neutralizes much of fluoride's toxic effects.

Do they? 3%? Do you know how it is purified? Is it done naturally or with chemicals? You do realize, although rare, sodium fluoride is a naturally occurring mineral as well right? Please show me how the calcium in calcium fluoride neutralizes fluorides toxic effects. Math or a source.

So now you just going to deny and remove from your mind the possibility that people are allergic to fluoride. I hardly know of one chemical that someone isn't allergic to. There are people allergic to grass, bread and even water. It's funny though, I just looked it up and most government sources try to claim that there is no solid evidence of people being allergic to fluoride. I myself am sensitive to fluoridated water, it makes my skin itchy and red, and it only happens when I shower in fluoridated water. If I use natural tank/rain water I am completely fine.

I haven't seen anyone allergic to fluoride. I haven't even heard of it.
How do you know it is the fluoride? Couldn't it be one of MANY chemicals used at the water plant? The pipes in the ground? A break in the pipes and something leaking in? Do you have the chemical report showing that it is fluoride and nothing else in your water?
Too many variables.
Too much groundless fear.

'nuff said.

ChaoticOrder
reply to post by superman2012

 

I don't feel it needs to be ingested, but it is the best practice right now to curb dental disease.

What... you think people are just going to use tap water as if it were a mouth wash and spit it out? Get real bud... your argument is weak and flawed in every regard. Admit it.

You obviously have a problem reading or with reading comprehension.

Did I say/type that? I said it was the best way to get fluoride out there to people that otherwise don't have great dental hygiene. If you are going to take things out of context and make ridiculous claims with it...at least make it funny so I can laugh at more than your "science" which I haven't seen yet.

occrest

'nuff said.

What percentage is that? Is that the same as what is put in the water supply? Is there anything else in there?

Eat a pound of salt and tell me what happens to you.
Drink 5 gallons of "clean" water at a sitting and tell me what happens.
Sodium Hypochlorite is added to the water to kill pathogens, it would kill you if you drank it 100%.

It's all about how much you have.

Thanks for proving my point about the fear aspect with no science to back it up!

superman2012
Did I say/type that?

No, but you may as well have. You are trying to find a common ground by saying ingesting fluoride isn't a great idea... then how can you reconcile that will the fact that it WILL be ingested by countless people?

I said it was the best way to get fluoride out there to people that otherwise don't have great dental hygiene.

Just because something may be good for my health, doesn't mean anyone should have the authority to force that thing upon me. They say the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

No, but you may as well have. You are trying to find a common ground by saying ingesting fluoride isn't a great idea... then how can you reconcile that will the fact that it WILL be ingested by countless people?

So you admit to putting words in my mouth/hand in order to "try" to further your argument..interesting.
I already explained why I understand why they do it. Go back and read. I can link it in an edit here if you indicate you need that.

Just because something may be good for my health, doesn't mean anyone should have the authority to force that thing upon me. They say the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

I agreed with that as well. You do have control over that. Vote or buy a filter that takes it out.

reply to post by superman2012

I don't care what percentage it is. I don't want to ingest the crap. Period.

Your argument is moot. You will NEVER convince me that drinking poison is beneficial to my health.

superman2012
I already explained why I understand why they do it.

No, you explained why it might be rational or ethical to implement mass fluoridation, not why it is rational or ethical to have everyone ingest it.

You do have control over that. Vote or buy a filter that takes it out.

Oh yes I'm sure if I just vote that will change something... lol. And have you looked at how expensive the proper fluoride filters are? Fluoride is one of the hardest chemicals to remove from water, even with the top of the line filters it wont get all the fluoride. Plus why should I have to spend more money just to avoid something I never agreed to? It's bad enough that I already have to buy bottled drinking water.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Don't waste money on trying to filter fluoride out of your water. Neutralize it instead.

ATS thread on subject.

Source for above mentioned thread