War Pictures (not for the weak)

What's Nick Berg and 9/11 have in common? Both highly televised atrocities carried out by anonymous men, used to stir up the masses and beat the war drums. Meanwhile, the masses never find out exactly who is guilty of the crimes because there's never an investigation or trial. No one's guilty except who the media makes guilty.

So Ryan, keep beating the war drums and scream louder for blood. Always remember 9/11 and Nick Berg, but don't ever understand them. Just drink in the fear and get pissed.

i dont know if you remember the recent Osama Bin Ladin video in which he takes credit for 9/11. I dont know if you remember the terrorists praising allah as they slowly sawed Nick Berg's head off. I can say, however, 70% of our troops voted for George W. Bush, and they are the ones dying. So keep beating your, "i dont know enough information because im to stupid to put 1 and 1 together," drum, while our troops continue to destroy the people who have already destroyed so many other lives.

How about those Russian School children, did they know!?!? Were they in Iraq?! Guess what, WWII was 5000000x worse. I dont hear any of you complaining about that. You are complaining about us trying to eliminate cold hearted murderers. THEY MURDER MEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN WITH ABSOLUTELY NO REGARD! You need a reality check, ask yourself, why am i defending the terrorists? You dont think these guys are terrorists... since when is beheading people who beg for their life an act of war. Nick Berg wasn't fighting the people in Iraq, he was helping rebuild Iraq, and was MURDERED by them. What is this war for, NO it isn't oil, it is for freedom, it is for safety, and it is for better world relations. Guess what democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq is going to do... SPARK an era of change in the Middle East, allow peace to finally become a reality. And give America great power in the middle east. The only reason you are against this war is because of the liberal media, hey guess who took those pictures, cuz it sure wasn't republicans. I want a number from all of you who are no longer in support of this war. How many more people would Sadaam had to have brutely murdered before you supported this invasion, regardless of Weapons of Mass Destruction. There has to be a number. Because that number would have been much higher than any total death toll we had to have take place before Fallujah was secured, and im including the whole war. You are either for or against this war. If you stand against it, you stand with the terrorists. .

What are you talking about? That school in Russia had nothing to do with Islamic terrorists; that was an issue with the Chechs and Russians. Putin just pulled the Trump Called and further threw the world off the mark.

Okay, everything that occured after the war --beheadigns and such-- are being commited due to the war...I mean, come on bruv, do you really think these sort of attrocoties were being commited by Muslims on a day to day basis pre-Iraqi 'freedom' ?

Also, can you please provide me conclusive 'facts' that Saddam 'brutaly murdered' 300,000 of his own people? I want to see names of every single person; i want to see pictures; and i want to see reports from respected agencies that have not been molested by the U.S.

SPARK an era of change in the Middle East, allow peace to finally become a reality. And give America great power in the middle east

Exactly ! This will give America 'POWER', so thank you for telling us another reason to wage war against a country that never touched us: we want to become more powerfull than we already are.

Good job

Deep

Originally posted by ZeroDeep

How about those Russian School children, did they know!?!? Were they in Iraq?! Guess what, WWII was 5000000x worse. I dont hear any of you complaining about that. You are complaining about us trying to eliminate cold hearted murderers. THEY MURDER MEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN WITH ABSOLUTELY NO REGARD! You need a reality check, ask yourself, why am i defending the terrorists? You dont think these guys are terrorists... since when is beheading people who beg for their life an act of war. Nick Berg wasn't fighting the people in Iraq, he was helping rebuild Iraq, and was MURDERED by them. What is this war for, NO it isn't oil, it is for freedom, it is for safety, and it is for better world relations. Guess what democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq is going to do... SPARK an era of change in the Middle East, allow peace to finally become a reality. And give America great power in the middle east. The only reason you are against this war is because of the liberal media, hey guess who took those pictures, cuz it sure wasn't republicans. I want a number from all of you who are no longer in support of this war. How many more people would Sadaam had to have brutely murdered before you supported this invasion, regardless of Weapons of Mass Destruction. There has to be a number. Because that number would have been much higher than any total death toll we had to have take place before Fallujah was secured, and im including the whole war. You are either for or against this war. If you stand against it, you stand with the terrorists. .

What are you talking about? That school in Russia had nothing to do with Islamic terrorists; that was an issue with the Chechs and Russians. Putin just pulled the Trump Called and further threw the world off the mark.

Okay, everything that occured after the war --beheadigns and such-- are being commited due to the war...I mean, come on bruv, do you really think these sort of attrocoties were being commited by Muslims on a day to day basis pre-Iraqi 'freedom' ?

Also, can you please provide me conclusive 'facts' that Saddam 'brutaly murdered' 300,000 of his own people? I want to see names of every single person; i want to see pictures; and i want to see reports from respected agencies that have not been molested by the U.S.

SPARK an era of change in the Middle East, allow peace to finally become a reality. And give America great power in the middle east

Exactly ! This will give America 'POWER', so thank you for telling us another reason to wage war against a country that never touched us: we want to become more powerfull than we already are.

Good job

Deep

Does it matter how many he killed? Do you deny he killed his own?

How many dead will it take to sway you?

Your illogical.

Does it matter how many he killed? Do you deny he killed his own?

How many dead will it take to sway you?

Your illogical.

Of course it matters how many he killed, and it matters why they were killed.

It's not illogical, it's being reasonable..

Deep

Originally posted by ZeroDeep

Does it matter how many he killed? Do you deny he killed his own?

How many dead will it take to sway you?

Your illogical.

Of course it matters how many he killed, and it matters why they were killed.

It's not illogical, it's being reasonable..

Deep

It's reasonable to leave a dictator of that nature in power?

War is Hell. Someone asked if we should be doing this for Iraq's road to democracy. Well, if that is what it takes. Why don't you post pictures of Iraqi women voting or going to SCHOOL? Or should we just tell all the women to go home and clean dishes all day. Speak only when spoken to. If you didn't have these freedoms, sorry lady, you wouldn't be able to even POST your opinions on these forums. Or better yet, why don't we pull out now and do it all over again in 20 years? What we see in the short run is awful, I agree. But we are working towards the long run. The U.S. Civil War was awful. Many Innocents were killed. The Revolutionary war in the U.S. was awful. Once again many Innocents were killed. Now in the long run, look back and ask "was it worth it." Well? Was it?

People are arguing that we are doing the same thing that Saddam did. Well, if Saddam was still in power, he would continue doing what he was doing for MANY years to come, and then appoint someone to do the same thing once he retired. Yes, long drawn out killings. We have to do all the killings now in the short run, better than decades of innocent killings. And Saddam is TARGETING innocent people. Show me the battle plans where our troops are to go into a village and kill shiites, children, and innocents. From what I am hearing we are fighting "insurgents." Regrettably, there will be civilian casualties.

We all know that the U.S. didn't go into war to remove an oppressive regime. But now that we have gone to war, we might as well finish it in the favor of a long term free and stable Iraq. Unless, like I said earlier, you want to pull out and do it all over again.

Originally posted by nanna_of_6
verfed, your right........... Saddam was a evil, vile monster for murdering people of his country,................ there's no doubt that he was a "dictator", but now let us look at George W Bush and what he has done. Hummmmm, well, (1) Bush LIED about the WMDs and Saddam being a "threat" to the United States as the REASON to INVADE IRAQ, (2) Bush is bathing in the BLOOD of over 100,000 Iraqi Citizens and over 1200 American troops, plus the victims of the "be-headings", and the American and Iraqis that have been injured/maimed,............. Bush will bath in their blood for as long as he lives,..... because theres no way for him to cleanse his body or soul of the DEATH and DESTRUCTION he has caused,... the day Bush dies of natural causes (I asume), the only after-life that he will come in contact with is HELL

, which he rightly deserves

.

dgtempt,
Good Thread

, to bad ALL Americans can't see those pictures,.......... I wonder what the "christians" would say or think if they saw what they had caused by voting Bush

. I wish my cousin could see this thread,........... it would give her something to really worry about if her son gets shipped over to Iraq,........... she's a stupid Republican Christian that voted Bush because she beleived his bull about his conversations with GOD. I pray nothing happens to her boy, but if something does, she has only herself, the others that voted Bush and George Bush to blame, and I don't want to hear nothing out of her mouth if GOD Forbid, Kevin gets killed, she voted for Bush,.......... now she'll have to live with her decision . I know I sound "cold" and "unfeeling", I have to be that way so I won't feel the effects of a family-member's murder from over in Iraq, when I know that his or her's vote and parents votes help put Bush in for a second term.

verfed, as far as I'm concerned, Bush is NO BETTER nor WORSE than Saddam, they are the same, except for one difference,.......... Saddam murdered his own people, he did not Invade the United States and murder any of our people,............... whereas, Bush Invaded Iraq and MURDERED our Soldiers,Troops and the Iraqi citizens

First of All, Bush lied. Okay, agreed. I don't think anybody is disputing that.

Secondly, you think that all republicans are stupid. Do you know how stupid THAT sounds? Let's take into account all the other ISSUES ASIDE from the war that made people vote for who the voted for. Ummm.... Domestic issues possibly? You're no rocket scientist yourself okay.

Thirdly, Saddam killed his own people INTENTIONALLY. Keyword. INTENT. He INTENTIONALLY TARGETED CIVILIANS. Bush did not INTENTIONALLY go in and target iraqi civilians. There will be casualties in war. That's why it's called war, not a trip to the mall. Show me the battle plan where our troops are to Intentionally TARGET civilians. Yeah: "Okay boys, just go in and shoot all the civilians you can. We've already taken out most of them with heavy artillery and bombings. Repeat take out all innocents and civilians. If an insurgent gets in your way, might as well take him out too." Ummmmm.... Right.

Conclusion. Is the war in Iraq wrong. I believe yes. But facts don't change and the facts are that we have gone to war in Iraq and we are still in war in Iraq. We can only change what we do today. Stop whining. What is your suggestion? Pull out now and do it all over again? Oh and the whole Iraq is not a threat argument: Probably not, but maybe so. Neither was Osama when he was setting up terrorist training camps 10 years ago. The THREAT came 10 years later in the form of the twin towers destruction. Had we tried to remove Osama 10 years ago with a campaign this size, the people now crying on this thread would be crying back then too. THERE IS NO THREAT. INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE DYING. LOOK WHAT WE ARE DOING!

You people say that we are justifying the war. Well, in a way some good is coming out of the war for the Iraqi people. Are we justfying EVERYTHING? NO. We all agree innocent deaths are BAD and that Bush LIED. But STOP saying that Bush is killing all these innocent people on purpose. Jesus. Actions that lead to the removal of insurgents will undoubtedly lead to innocent deaths.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by Banshee]

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Now, IB, tell me something, being that you have a singular mindset: compare the violence being commited in Iraq to before the Invasion, and what do you see? Is it true that we have caused more anarchy in that country?

Also, with these 'so-called' accusations that Saddam commited 'mass-murders', can anyone provide me with all 300,000 bodies, pictures, names, etc etc etc, to prove these claims? The U.S goverment likes to ejaculate propanda more times than Ron Jeremy has over Jenna Jamenson in his entire life time. And this 'Al Quwari', I would like to see some conclusive evidence that this man is more than merely a 'myth'. I also want to know how we have concluded that all 400 of those 'insurgents' are not Iraqis, and how we have come to the realization that they were foriegn fighters; what sort of 'science' did they use to come to these conclusions?

Something un-biased would be recomended.

Deep

[edit on 15-11-2004 by ZeroDeep]

You are so pathetically misinformed.

First of all, there is only chaos in an isolated area of Iraq, and who lives in this area is significant, because they are wholly different from the rest of the country. They are Sunnis, the vast minority in Iraq. Though the minority, they held power in Iraq for several decades, and during that time the majority Shi'as and Kurds were abused and oppressed. The mass graves are exclusively Shi'a and Kurds. The Sunnis were Saddam's pets; he was one of them. Now they have been stripped of power, and face the prospect of living in a Shi'a and Kurdish dominated government. They have nothing to lose by fighting and everything to gain.

Second, we all like to conveniently forget that Saddam emptied his jails prior to OIF. Hundreds of thousands of criminals. Why is there chaos? My God...

Third, I have to laugh at this crap about fabricated mass graves. No wonder you're misinformed. You're lazy. All you have to do is fire up your search engine.

These videos are from Amnesty International:

Mass graves in Basra

More on mass graves

Mass grave unearthed in Iraq - Oct 13, 2004

Many of the bodies found at the site near al-Hatra are believed to be the bodies of Kurdish women and children thought slaughtered by the Saddam Hussein regime.

More photos:

Somebody stop me. More mass graves:

There is no way of knowing how many thousands are in these graves. Much of the documentation was looted. But they will continue to be found.

Human rights watch:

For an hour on the afternoon of June 8, 1987, chemical shells from a truck-mountedmultiple rocket-launcher, or rajima, rained down on Bergalou, Haladin and the nearby village of Sekaniyan ("Three Springs").

The worst casualties were in Haladin, where one shell hit a house killing a man named Yasin Abd-al-Rahman and six members of his family. Otherwise, the main effects of the gas shelling were tearing and shortness of breath. Later chemical attacks produced additional symptoms, including blistering and burns. Those who died perished, in fits of shivering, within an hour of exposure to the chemicals; others acted as if deranged, and stumbled around laughing hysterically

5,000 killed.

Then of course there's the Marsh Arabs:

Many fled their remote homeland in the marshes of southern Iraq when the central government reasserted its authority across the country after uprisings following the 1991 Gulf War.

In addition, massive government drainage schemes have turned the region from one of the world's most significant wetlands to a wasteland of cracked, salinated earth.

Baroness Emma Nicholson, Chairman of the Amar Foundation, which provides aid to Marsh Arab refugees, believes they are the victims of genocide.


In targeting the Madan, Saddam Hussein "has destroyed the livelihoods and many of the lives of nearly half a million people", she told BBC News Online.

The United Nations Environmental Programme says about 90% of the up to 20,000 square kilometres of marshlands have been lost because of drainage and upstream damming in "one of the world's greatest environmental disasters".

Estimates suggest there were around 400,000 Madan in the 1950s, but that this had dropped to 250,000 by 1991.

There may now be as few as 20,000 living in the marshes.

Anybody hungry?

[edit on 16-11-2004 by Ibn Iblis]

[edit on 16-11-2004 by Ibn Iblis]

Nice job Ibn, yet again. The anti-bush side doesn't want to remember what a butcher Saddam was or anything that conflicts with their agenda. This isn't about Bush, or politics even. It is about domination of the world by Islamofacists (good word). You can't fight those who would commit suicide to kill innocents with WORDS. Especially if it is someone elses suicide they are committing. The terroist leaders are COWARDS. At least Mohamed "LEAD" his army and didn't push "kids" out in front of them. The ONLY thing terrorist understands is death.........yours or his.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by DrHoracid]

Let see the logic in here.

Sadam was a bad man so Mr. Bush took him out.

Sadam was going to attack US with his MWDs so we liberated Iraq and save US from his attack. What a joke.

Now is okay to kill people in Iraq while we are liberating them so they can go meet alah.

Is okay to kill chidren in Iraq because one american child is worth ten Iraqi children so we are doing them a favor we are liberating them so they can meet alah.

The administration is killing Insurgents but because they all look alike onces they are death they can not tell the truth and neither thank our troops for Mr. Bush liberation.


Pray all of you happy war people never had to lose a child because the person that kill him is doing the right thing like Mr. Bush is doing in Iraq.

Murder is murder any way you sugar coated and paint it pink. In this case red.

Anybody than agree with the murder in that country of children become as guilty of murder as the person that is doing the killing itself.

Killing in the name of democracy is justify because Mr. Bush god tells him, indeed it will be false prophet in this world, and people will follow them blindly and kill in his name also.

The only logic you need to understand is that it is impossible to fight a war without killing people.

You are against all war for any reason, period, so stop pretending you're against our reasons for going to war, as if any reason would be good enough for you.

Originally posted by Ibn Iblis
The only logic you need to understand is that it is impossible to fight a war without killing people.

You are against all war for any reason, period, so stop pretending you're against our reasons for going to war, as if any reason would be good enough for you.

You don't know my reasons and you will never understand them in your war happy pro Mr. Bush and his god reasons for killing Iraqis in their own land mind. By the way How come you are not in iraq killing "insurgents"

Oh you most be a vet. or perhaps was in the services but got out before the war, so convinient.

n/m

[edit on 16-11-2004 by Ibn Iblis]

okay lets get something straight here... those Chechnians that killed the school kids, WERE in fact Muslims. Secondly, your right war has never done anything, except stop facism, dictatorships, genocide, the hallocaust, slavery, and just plain old oppression. Dont you understand that Sadaam would be still murdering kids and women... we aren't doing it on purpose, we TOLD them to leave the city weeks ahead of time. I dont recall Sadaam saying that. In fact, i dont recall Sadaam EVER helping his citizens in any way. I remember him allowing his sons to torture and murder the entire Iraqi soccer team because they lost a game. But your right, we are as bad as them. Your right, we are bad because we have freed thousands of people from oppression. Your right, everyone over there hates us, except for the majority of the people. You say we are just as bad for killing those people in war, fine! Atleast i gave warning, you are just as bad those who slaughtered the school children, those who beheaded the relief workers, and those who murdered the 3000 people on September 11th 2001... WITHOUT WARNING!

Chechen rebels are Islamic fundamentalists supported by al Qaeda.

I will produce links if necessary, but maybe it's me this seems like common knowledge to me.

war has also killed thousands of civilians in genocide,murder,rape and torture. did you forget these things?
thats the bad view of war, you showed the good propaganda side of war.
see how two views can be seen on a 3 letter word.

Marg, you amaze me more and more,

you really just dont get it! What would be a reason for war then? If your children were killed at a shopping mall by a suicide bomber?

If a whole US city was wiped out?

How about 1991 war, was it justified?

how about Vietnam?

Korea?

WWII? # maybe we should have caved after Pearl huh?



Your agenda scares me......you want to lay down and rely on the basic nice nature of mankind? You dont understand, it is us or them. The Islamic Fundementalists would not stop attacking the West even if we left the Middle East...

A lot of those dead insurgents are Syrians allied to the Ba'athist insurgents. If they don't want to be shot, stay out of Iraq where they have no business.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
i dont know if you remember the recent Osama Bin Ladin video in which he takes credit for 9/11. I dont know if you remember the terrorists praising allah as they slowly sawed Nick Berg's head off. I can say, however, 70% of our troops voted for George W. Bush, and they are the ones dying. So keep beating your, "i dont know enough information because im to stupid to put 1 and 1 together," drum, while our troops continue to destroy the people who have already destroyed so many other lives.

There are two OBL videos in which he refers to taking down the towers. The first from Dec. '01 is a proven fake. I haven't had time to look at the second, but even if it's true, why in Hell hasn't this country gotten that man?

As for the Nick Berg video, who do you think that the evil terrorists are going to praise, Christ?