The Narcissistic Veterans and Their Illogical Logic

reply to post by imasheep


This intelligent and insightful rant is far too important to be lost on ATS. You need to take this to every American Legion and VFW in the nation. Start with the ones in your area. Thanks.

reply to post by Carreau

This intelligent and insightful rant is far too important to be lost on ATS. You need to take this to every American Legion and VFW in the nation. Start with the ones in your area. Thanks.

Well played my friend! Well played........

reply to post by seabag


That is the crux of my argument...NO, no kind of benefits should be realized by any vet who helped to facilitate any war crime...which is every single vet. Every vet who shot one bullet in Iraq should be court marshaled and left to rot.

The families of fallen vets should get nothing. Why should they? If I violate a contract, I won't get anything but court and possibly jail...why should someone from the army get a pass, I don't.

Worse yet, every vet violated their oath to uphold the Constitution and protect the people, who pay their benefits, by not marching on Washington immediately and taking over the government.

You still owe the people...we don't owe you. When you do your duty and overthrow the corrupt government, we will do ours and pay what we owe. Why is that such a bad thing?

reply to post by imasheep

Even if I agreed with you(and I don't). Until you are willing to take equal responsibility for the actions of this country, including our military, you are no better than those you criticize, and hold responsible.

You have gotten some great replies in this thread from both civilian and military. I think you need to step back, and re-examine your perspective on this. As American citizens, and lets not forget, soldiers ARE citizens. We are all responsible for what this country does, and stands for. I won't argue that our government is corrupt from top to bottom, and as useless as t*ts on a bore. But it is up to us to change it. Until we do, nothing will get better, and this discussion will be the farthest thing from our minds.

reply to post by seeker1963


I was waiting for that exact reply. What nonsense to claim that people who sign up don't expect to goto war...especially since there has been constant war for the past 50 years somewhere.

Hell, if I sign up to fight for America, I would know damned well what I'm in for...a sh*t storm. Why the military should somehow get a pass for ignorance is beyond me. They aren't signing up to grow trees.

Again, "just following orders" isn't a valid excuse. May I direct you to the Nuremberg Trials for confirmation of this?

reply to post by imasheep

That is the crux of my argument...NO, no kind of benefits should be realized by any vet who helped to facilitate any war crime...which is every single vet. Every vet who shot one bullet in Iraq should be court marshaled and left to rot.

That's ridiculous. You don't know anything about what went on in Iraq. You're drunk on propaganda and trying to take it out on veterans. The fact of the matter is congress approved the war...the vast majority of the American people approved of the war...the majority of the world approved of the war...and our military fought the war honorably. You can't send people to do your bidding then court marshal them because you had a change of heart.

Go pick a fight with the group you're really frustrated with. Use your hate fueled rage to attack the people in power who lie to us, use us and abuse their power. Go after congress and the media who promote their propaganda and lies. Don't go after the only people with the stones to stand up and do something in your defense. You're misguided and poorly informed.

reply to post by imasheep


Well, when you really get down to it, isn't every war a crime against someone?
I think so.

If I had my way, we would use the "total war" philosophy.
Anything worth doing, is worth doing 100%.

But, that isn't what the American people want. You have been getting what you want.

What? Are you not entertained? Is this not what you asked for? Is this not what you demanded?
This isn't what you wanted? Well then, why do you vote for it time and time again?

But that's the American way isn't it? Always pointing the finger.
I don't make any excuses for who I am. I am not a nice person, I have done bad things.
But the bottom line is, you hired me.

Carreau
reply to post by imasheep

 

This intelligent and insightful rant is far too important to be lost on ATS. You need to take this to every American Legion and VFW in the nation. Start with the ones in your area. Thanks.

Yet another fallacy. Hate to piss in your cornflakes bud, but just because someone is a veteran, doesnt mean they can't get their teeth kicked in by a civvy. Your sarcasm is a part of the problem...vets aren't badasses because they learned hand to hand combat for a week during basic training. How silly!

reply to post by imasheep

I was waiting for that exact reply. What nonsense to claim that people who sign up don't expect to goto war...especially since there has been constant war for the past 50 years somewhere.

Hell, if I sign up to fight for America, I would know damned well what I'm in for...a sh*t storm. Why the military should somehow get a pass for ignorance is beyond me. They aren't signing up to grow trees.

Again, "just following orders" isn't a valid excuse. May I direct you to the Nuremberg Trials for confirmation of this?

First let me say, yet again, you choose to attack those whom are just making a living while refusing to address the criminals in the government that puts them in the position they are in!!!!

Now let me educate you! I was in the military in the early 80's and do you know what WAR we were in that put my Unit on standby????

Grenada!!!!! Yea, a few snipers in the hills shooting at college students!

But you know what?? If you were one of those college students and you saw me and my unit coming in to save your ass, I'll bet your whole anti military attitude would be totally different today!

Go ahead and deny it! Your pathetic attempt to bastardize those in the military while not saying a peep about those in DC whom command them, speaks for itself.......

reply to post by imasheep

I have the guts to take the inevitable heat for this topic.

Show some "guts" and stand up for your convictions and go repeat this rant in person. Internet guts don't count. And hey, kick some teeth in, you badass you. Until then, you're just another keyboard ranger pissed off because his girlfriend left him for a real man. I know your type.

so its ok to be irresponsible and do anything you are told, so long as you are really needing a military paycheck.

so tptb's plan worked perfectly. war crimes are ignored if you are the last ones in the nation with food on your plate.
citation; every 3rd world dictatorship ever.

reply to post by Bisman

so its ok to be irresponsible and do anything you are told, so long as you are really needing a military paycheck.

so tptb's plan worked perfectly. war crimes are ignored if you are the last ones in the nation with food on your plate.
citation; every 3rd world dictatorship ever.

Did I say that???

I can promise you this, if ANYONE in the military takes unlawful orders to fire on it's citizens, I will be the first to end their slavery to their masters!!!! GOT IT!!!

But YET AGAIN, another anti military person, REFUSES to answer my question as to, "Why don't you go after the government whom is putting them in that position?"?!!!!

Are you a coward and it is easier to blame those whom take orders VERSUS blaming the government whom is giving the orders?????? Did you not see my comment on Vietnam? Or are you choosing to be willfully ignorant?

I think it is a very easy question to answer! So what is it?

reply to post by seeker1963


you all have been saying it.

excusing them for being to young and ignorant.
or excusing them for just needing jobs to feed their family.

it doesn't excuse them though.


and if the real goal is the government and not the warriors they own, then i STILL start by pointing fingers at the military personnel. because they are the ones needed to change the government, then i think i will continue to disrespect them for not doing so.
they are getting pat on the head so hard, they dont think anything they do is wrong.
perhaps the attitude is to supportive, thats why they will never realize what they are doing.


i bet you have one of those lovely bumper stickers "if you wont stand behind the troops, then stand in front of them"
same thing as "support the troops" really.

its sickening

reply to post by spartacus699


Ah no, sorry but my father was a Korean war vet,and he had no choice but to serve.Trust me when I say that he tried everything to get out of it including ending up in jail.He was half native american and was under no illusions about our gov.But they came and literally drug him out the door.He ended up on pork chop hill fighting for his life.He told me it was nothing but a stupid chess game for they're superiors to play.
Those that had no choice but to go deserve to have the benefits.There may not be a draft now,but for a long time there was,those that got drafted should at least at the end of it all be able to have those benefits.Nobody asked them if they wanted to go.

its all part of the propaganda.

i bet they want every vet to think hes god's gift to america. its the only way new soldiers sign up. knowing the rest of their lives they have an imaginary parade following them down the street. must justify in their minds they are valued by all citizens.

but as the citizens wake up, that fallacy is eroding.

thus; the ridiculous suicides by vets. they are all just realizing how hard they were tooled and abandoned. how they fought for nothing, and how more and more americans arent shaking their hands as they pass them on the street.

reply to post by Bisman


Have you been in their shoes????

Think about being given and order, and no matter how ridiculous it may seem, you HAVE to do it or end up in a military prison.

Think about it as being a civilian, a cop pulls you over, and because of a LAW they throw your ass in the slammer!

Being in the military is the same thing! OBEY THE LAW OR ELSE!!!!!

SO!!!!!! With that being said, are you not just as guilty for allowing the police to arrest you if you DON"T obey the law?? How scared do you get if the popo pulls you over for a burnt out tail light and you have a joint in your car???? Well, when your in the military, you don't even GET to be that stupid!

Get over your hate for the military! Take it out of the government whom sits in their crystal offices demanding we obey their BS laws!!!!

Oh, I know what this is about...

Somebody's girlfriend got ran through by a bunch of jarnecks.

seeker1963
reply to post by Bisman

 

Think about being given and order, and no matter how ridiculous it may seem, you HAVE to do it or end up in a military prison.

if they were drafted, i cant even imagine how hard a decision that would be. i pity any man that has to go through that.

but this is not the case. these are all free thinking citizens that opted in by choice.
they deserve nothing from me for any consequences they encounter. they are part of the problem.

reply to post by Bisman


Your like a doctor, that realizes his patient has a tumor. Instead of taking the tumor out of your patient, you decide to treat the patients lethargy instead of taking out the tumor that is causing it!

You want to treat the symptom and ignore the root of what is causing the symptom!

I'm done!

Enjoy your military bashing! I hope the government loving you, is enough to help you sleep tonight!

funny.

everywhere else on this site and all over the net, you read people with advice about how its OUR responsibility to change the government.
i agree.

but you seem to think the vets and current enlisted dont apply to that. like they are just trapped and its the normal citizens job to save them or something.
they have more means then the rest of us, but its still solely OUR job? i hold them accountable for being the workhorses of war and giving tptb what they want.
in fact, i look at them as knowingly taking part of the fall of the country and world. they are dangerous and not to be trusted.