China for World super power in next 40 years

Originally posted by mad scientist
Come on Devil, that for all intents and purposes is nothing. What were the soldiers therefore exactly ? The US did more for Somalia.

The forces where in africa doing thier job, the US tried to take out the leadership of the war criminals in somalia and look what has happened. The new leader of the warcriminals is an EX USMC peace keep who suprsingly was on the peace keeping mission there.

Most of these forces aren't European and a large majority are from African countries themselves.

You asked what the world was doing, I replied. I never said they where strictly european mate.

Pretty much, Europe really hasn't done jack.

You call sending several hundred men "nothing", sending several ships (which have few of now lately thanks to tony's crew) is nothing?

The Americans invaded the Natives, forced them out of their land, and massacred many of them. ALL of the land of what the U.S. and Canada currently has rightfully belongs to the Native Americans. The next time you start bashing China about how it invaded Tibet, look back at your own history and stop being so hypocritical.



Yes we invaded a lot of countries but we never invaded with the sole intention of pillaging like a bunch of mongol hordes

[edit on 24-1-2006 by benedict arnold]

Originally posted by benedict arnold
The Americans invaded the Natives, forced them out of their land, and massacred many of them. ALL of the land of what the U.S. and Canada currently has rightfully belongs to the Native Americans. The next time you start bashing China about how it invaded Tibet, look back at your own history and stop being so hypocritical.

I'm not american, don't assume you make an ass out of yourself. Besides it's an old and irrelevent arguamnet. We live in a far more enlightened age.

Yes we invaded a lot of countries but we never invaded with the sole intention of pillaging like a bunch of mongol hordes

Are you talking about China ? Invading is invading, you pillage Tibet What makes what CHina did worse is that they did it in the modern age, when the world has evolved and is held to different standards. If you can justify invasion of Tibet and what you've done there, you must condone the Japanese invasion of China in the 30's. Fair comparison, wouldn't you say.

mad scientist, I believe the first part of benedict's statement was my quote. He forgot to put it under quote. And his second statement was to answer my question.

First of all, I never assumed that YOU were an American. I was speaking generally to the widespread American anti-China postings.

Second of all, there is as much need to justify the invasion of Tibet as (For example) the need for the U.S. to justify it's invasion of the South during secession.

Next, To even compare the invasion of Tibet to the Japanese occupation of China is poposterous. To even say that the deaths of millions of Chinese under the Japanese occupation is justified because the PRC later invaded Tibet is beyond me.





[edit on 24-1-2006 by k4rupt]

Originally posted by chinawhite
Yes the orbit life has to do with something called gravity

. Putting a satillite at such a low altitude can have that effect.

The service life is at least 2year with the first one serving for a little more than 3 years. The scond one is presumly still in service since i has not been anounced of its retirement. The first KH-11s also had about a a three year lifespan.


Anything is possible

[edit on 24-1-2006 by chinawhite]

Another thing i forgot to mention earlier.

You said that India can launch satellites BECAUSE there is a commercial market for it and that's where all the funding cmes from.

Note: India's is NOT fuelled by the commercial space industry, it FUELS the commercial space industry. We have enough money to do whatever we feel fit. The comment you made was baseless and unnecessary.
Plus the money that we get back is of course a driving force in the betterment of the space program, but there is no certainity that parts/all of that money are being put back into the very same space program that generated the revenue.
And w.r.t the few posts before this:
Genocide or not, it does not factor into becoming a superpower. Sad but true, all Superpowers, present and past have their hands dirty in this case.

Originally posted by k4rupt
Second of all, there is as much need to justify the invasion of Tibet as (For example) the need for the U.S. to justify it's invasion of the South during secession.

Gawd, please there is no comparison. The Tibetans are a different race and different culture than the Chinese. Not to mention that China has also invaded and occupied parts of Northern India ie. The Aksai Chin.

Next, To even compare the invasion of Tibet to the Japanese occupation of China is poposterous.

You obvously know very little about the Chinese occupation of Tibet. China has killed thousands upon thousands of Tibetans and have systematically destroyed their culture. I hvae been to Tibet and seen with my own eyes what has been done. Just one example is China's paving over of a scared lake in Lhasa and turning it inot a PLA parade ground. The Chinese have been systematically changing the population demographics in China as well, the result being that ethnic Tibetans are now a minority in their own country. Tibet has also been used as China's nuclear waste dump as well. Just a few examples.

Please refrain from commenting things you know nothing about.

To even say that the deaths of millions of Chinese under the Japanese occupation is justified because the PRC later invaded Tibet is beyond me.

You should read what I say more carefuly, because that's not what I said. Both invasions were wrong, but China can't bitch and moan about Japan when they have done many of the same things themselves.

[edit on 24-1-2006 by mad scientist]

Originally posted by mad scientist
Are you talking about China ? Invading is invading, you pillage Tibet

What makes what CHina did worse is that they did it in the modern age, when the world has evolved and is held to different standards.

The world or the west?. Apples and oranges there mad scientist.

And invading tibet?. When in the last 1000 years has tibet ever been independent?. How did china invade a country, How did china pillage tibet?. Did america let the south go in the civil war. I dont think so, Or is this another apples and oranges thing?

Originally posted by chinawhite
And invading tibet?. When in the last 1000 years has tibet ever been independent?. How did china invade a country, How did china pillage tibet?. Did america let the south go in the civil war. I dont think so, Or is this another apples and oranges thing?

Hmm we have selective reading do we ? As above. NOt to mention China's suppression of the Uighars, which you don't seem to want to address. Habe you ever been to Tibet, actually how much time have you actually spent in China ? I know you live in the country in Australia. Wangaratta isn't it in Victoria.

The Federal Government was wrong to invade the South, but it happend, we moved on.

The fact is China is full of # to have invaded Tibet, but the difference between the US and China is:

The South made an agreement to fulfill an obligation to a Union...they broke that agreement.

Tibet made no such agreement with China.

The US invaded the South to preserve territorial boundaries.

China invaded Tibet to expand territorial boundaries.

The US does not have a policy of invasion.

China does...it's called Irredentism.

Well, you can't crib that they aren't a superpower BECAUSE they did whatever they did in Tibet.They cannot expand territorially in any direction now;only maybe politically and/or economically.That to has major competition on all sides(Except maybe Africa and South America).

Originally posted by mad scientist
Gawd, please there is no comparison. The Tibetans are a different race and different culture than the Chinese. Not to mention that China has alsoinvaded and occupied parts of Northern India ie. The Aksai Chin.

Now please define chinese for me? . Having trouble?.

If you look on indian maps Askin chin was not even included on indian maps until the time between 1850-1900. Northern india is kashmir.

You obvously know very little about the Chinese occupation of Tibet. China has killed thousands upon thousands of Tibetans and have systematically destroyed their culture. I hvae been to Tibet and seen with my own eyes what has been done. Just one example is China's paving over of a scared lake in Lhasa and turning it inot a PLA parade ground.

you've been to tibet?. Highly unlikey. Your australian right, teenager?. When was this trip? you got proof?. This is a very big claim you are making mad scientist.

If you still keep up with this claim im going to quizz you on where and how you got there because there are only three services and three ways up there from china which westerners can come from.

Or you hitched there over the himalayans?

What in tibet isn't scared. I walk over a rock and i sin the tibetian culture. Now you give me a article or a reason why this lake is so speical or if this is even happening. You obvously dont know about australias sin to the aboriginals?. Now where is the comparision since it still happening here. And tibet is a large area which can sustain life more complicated than some cattle grazers. Would you feel better if australia didn't populate scared aboriginal areas or is it because the chinese are doing it its unfair

Did the aboriginals ever hurt anyone or didn't they practise peace?. Why aren't you out there protesting againest australia? oh thats right apples and oranges


Tibets population density is 2.1 people per kilometer, If china dumped a lot of redioactive materials there whats goig to happen? China does not dump it where people live it doesn't dump it over a wide area whats the problem?

[edit on 24-1-2006 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by mad scientist
Hmm we have selective reading do we ? As above. NOt to mention China's suppression of the Uighars, which you don't seem to want to address. Habe you ever been to Tibet, actually how much time have you actually spent in China ? I know you live in the country in Australia. Wangaratta isn't it in Victoria.

All chinese human rights claim i will address.

Uighars in xingjiang have been there for along time, As long as Han chinese have been there. Look up the Silk road or Xiongnu history. We took there lan over 2000 years ago it was back back back. Europe was still under the roman empire america was still a land full of tribes and china had a massive empire

Now the americans can suppress terrorist, australia can supress terrorist why cant china?. Maybe you look look into violence into that region and that internet cafe bombing in beijing in 2003. Why is china different?. I spent 5 years in china

[edit on 24-1-2006 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
The South made an agreement to fulfill an obligation to a Union...they broke that agreement. Tibet made no such agreement with China.

Now you better refresh your tibetian history her buddy. Tibet was a chinese protectrate from the end of the Yuan dynasty, tibet had control of tibets dosmestic affairs while china had control of tibets international affairs

yes it was a treaty.

When the manchu empire fell in 1911 the Qing dynasty fell and was replaced by the republic of china which according to the sucession of states theory it took over the Manchus as the government of china. That included the payments in the Boxer protocol and other treaties the Qing dynasty signed before hand. And that means tibet was still a chinese protectrate.

Tibet declared indepdence in 1911 also but this was a not legal because it was in a treaty with china to be a chinese protectrate. This alone makes the declaration illegal and also no nation gave tibet their polictical recognition. So tibet was not free in 1911

Than in 1947 when the ROC goverment led by jiang jieshi was making a consitution for a new china the tibetian representives were there because they also signed to be part of the ROC. The communist took over and than became the chinese government and re-occupied tibet and the tibetians signed a treaty with the PRC about joing the PRC. This is also another treaty.

The PRC started land reforms in the 1950s and this upset the lamas which were the land owning class in tibet. Tibet at the time was divided into the Serfs and Lamas. The lamas were the land owners and the serfs were actual slaves.

You might notice the word serfs in there. And if you are thinking about pre-revolution russia yes they are one in the same. Both of them were slave societies with land owners and serfs. In 1959 the tibetians led a revolt againest china which under treaty was legally able to put down the revolt(international law working here). Makes you wonder why some people choose to stay(serfs) in tibet and why some choose to flee(lamas). Maybe you should be asking if all tibets suported that revolt in 1959 because with land reforms the chinese gave everyone equal land and equal opputunities

The US does not have a policy of invasion.

Iraq, afganistan, korea, vietnam, colombia, cambodia, laos?. For a country which does not have a policy a lot of invasions have taken place?

Originally posted by Daedalus3
You said that India can launch satellites BECAUSE there is a commercial market for it and that's where all the funding cmes from.

So the satillies weren't lanuched for the commerical market but the military?

What i am saying is these projects are not military funded but made for the commerical market and not funded by the indian military for the primary reason of spying but the primary reason of making money off them.

IRS are commerical satillies aren't they. Share holders and such?. If there was no sales no one would fund them

Originally posted by chinawhite
Now the americans can suppress terrorist, australia can supress terrorist why cant china?. Maybe you look look into violence into that region and that internet cafe bombing in beijing in 2003. Why is china different?. In china i sent 5 years

LMAO, typical logic of yours. China suppresses a whole people, the Uighars that's not suppressing terrorism. If you can't see the difference, then there's no point continuing.

As for Tibet I came across from Nepal by bus on a road A bridge had actually been blown up in Nepal along the way by Maoist rebels causing a delay of 2 days whilst we slept in the bus. It was part of my trip to India and to Everest base camp. That was in 1998.
Obviously I have seen more of Tibet and probably China than you have. I travel to CHina at least once a year sometimes 3 times, I also lived in HK for 4 years in the early 80's.

I like China very much and have been offered work there. I can't stand toss pots like you though who think China can do no wrong, especialyl a kid who has only spent 5 years in China I'm just glad most CHinese peolpe I've met and do business with are far different than you, then again I have more contact with people in China than you

LOL, also by your logic because some distant Chinese emporer had conquered a territory then it belongs to China - talk about stone age thinking. In that case tehn every European country should start invading each other to reclaim territory lost by a distant empire. Stupid way to think isn't it

[edit on 24-1-2006 by mad scientist]

Originally posted by mad scientist
LMAO, typical logic of yours. China suppresses a whole people, the Uighars that's not suppressing terrorism. If you can't see the difference, then there's no point continuing.

Isn't the US doing the same thing? . iraq afganistan were all invaded and were not doing anything illegal. The US did it againest world opinioin and no UN resolution

Now the terriost group in Xingjiang aka East Turkestan (the main one and some other smaller ones) are on the US list of terriost groups. In 1997 9 people were killed over a three week period in Urumqi. Just like iraq. does the chinese government have a right to find terriost? Its just like a suicde bomb in iraq. china can and will fight terriost

Eastern Turkestan Islamic movement officially listed as terrorist organization

As for Tibet I came across from Nepal by bus on a road

A bridge had actually been blown up in Nepal along the way by Maoist rebels causing a delay of 2 days whilst we slept in the bus. It was part of my trip to India and to Everest base camp. That was in 1998.

Now your been to everest?. gousp one hell of a life you've lived

Someone from Wangaratta has been to tibet and india on i presume a self finding mission?. Sure im not going to believe you one bit but hey provide a picture and i'll be more the wiser

Obviously I have seen more of Tibet and probab;t China than you have. I travel to CHina at least once a year sometimes 3 times, I also lived in HK for 4 years in the early 80's.

Wangaratta?. Why china?. I dont even think you have a clue of what chinese culture is. now you lived there? and you dont know the difference when you say chinese occupation?

Umm.. someone which goes to china once and sometimes three times wouldn't know the people by now. umm... interesting

One thing i forgot to ask. What did youu have to do before you were allowed into the chinese border? What type of tour were you alloud. what where the PLA uniforms?, and what weather conditions where you under

Why did you miss my post about aboriginal claims?

Originally posted by mad scientist
I'm just glad most CHinese peolpe I've met and do business with are far different than you, then again I have more contact with people in China than you

And your age there kiddo, You dont project the image of someone which knows chinese culture. Sounds like some australian teenager to me

Now when you say more contract with people from china than me. You are completely wrong. Chinese like myself (fujianese. You might have been there ). travel alot and people from china come over regulary. I dont need to go to china to have contract with somone and the only reason i would do it is because of family affairs or a holiday

I've been to most of southern china up to Chengdu. and shaghai in the north. In victoria most chinese are ethier from the two provinces in china one called guandong and one called fujian. Then there are a mix of other people but there are a lot of people from Xingjiang in australia. This is because of their shared visas. One from russia and one from the PRC. So i know a lot of xingjiang people. Now if you ever met a person from xinjiang there will be somthing you will notice straight away.

What is it?

LOL, also by your logic because some distant Chinese emporer had conquered a territory then it belongs to China - talk about stone age thinking.

And a treaty is stone age thinking?. LoL. It was not a verbal agreement it was in writing. Or are all treaties now all void or have a expiry date?

Now your international laws and international policies are all stone age thinking. What else should china or the world do to update it?

Originally posted by chinawhite
Now your been to everest?. gousp one hell of a life you've lived

Someone from Wangaratta has been to tibet and india on i presume a self finding mission?. Sure im not going to believe you one bit but hey provide a picture and i'll be more the wiser.

LOL, yes I've been to Everest Base Camp. I don't come from a backwater country town you come from Wangaratta LMAO. I live in the big smoke, Sydney. LOL, even if I did provide apicture it wouldn't change your mind, don't have a scanner anyway. There isn't much point in wasting my time finding a scanner to placate some teenager. Come On, I hvae far more important things to do than that.

Wangaratta?. Why china?. I dont even think you have a clue of what chinese culture is. now you lived there? and you dont know the difference when you say chinese occupation?

No idea, what you're trying to say. You come from Wangaratta not me DUH.
Why do I do business in China ? Is that the question ?
Simple, that's where you get cheap textiles. I work for the family business now, hence we buy most of our product from China. It is a retail business which spans Australia and one that is quite well known, neeedless to say I'm not going to mention the name.

Umm.. someone which goes to china once and sometimes three times wouldn't know the people by now. umm... interesting

Precisely, and most bare no resemblance to your thinking. Are you HAn CHinese ?

[edit on 24-1-2006 by mad scientist]

Originally posted by chinawhite
One thing i forgot to ask. What did youu have to do before you were allowed into the chinese border? What type of tour were you alloud. what where the PLA uniforms?, and what weather conditions where you under

Get over yourself, I don't have the time for all your BS. I can't help it if you're jealous

Why did you miss my post about aboriginal claims?

You talk too much BS.

And your age there kiddo, You dont project the image of someone which knows chinese culture. Sounds like some australian teenager to me

OK, whatever, I think people know who the kid is here from most of your posts. You hardly think like an adult

As for the rest, blah. All BS and smoke and mirrors. Goodbye, I might respond to you when you have something more constructive to say, rather than bleating like a parrot.

Originally posted by mad scientist
LOL, yes I've been to Everest Base Camp. I don't come from a backwater country town you come from Wangaratta LMAO. I live in the big smoke, Sydney. LOL, even if I did provide apicture it wouldn't change your mind, don't hvae a scanner anyway. There isn't much point in wasting my time finding a scanner to placate some teenager. Come On, I hvae far more important things to do than that.

Yes yes yes...full of BS

All you have to tell me is what colour visa the chinese government gives you to enter tibet?. And dont tell me you forgot it either. And no this internet is not avabile on the internet if you try google it. I know this from a actual person that went to tibet from chengdu on a commerical flight

Or the date you left or was it a direct route from Kathmandu to Lhasa?

Please Im not full of !@#$. Im chinese and i actually know people which actually been there. So dont make some claims without trying to prove them

Simple, that's we're you get cheap textiles. I work for the family business now, hence we buy most of our product from China. It is a retail business which spans Australia and one that is quite well known, neeedless to say I'm not going to mention the name.

Yeah yeah yeah...

Im from melbounre and i would hardly call it a backtown outwash sice we are the cultral capital of australia (no matter what you people in sydney say). And retail buiness in textiles?. thats a original one.

Precisely, and most bare no resemblance to your thinking. Are you HAn CHinese ?

Theres a cultral difference between Han chinese and northern chinese. If you ever been to china you would know the difference because each region and each area have different cultures.

One person from the north can easily tell the difference between a western chiense and eastern chinese. I can tell which region people in chian come from by their accent