God does exist.

Originally posted by BlackSunApocalypse
So you're saying the universe isn't in perpetual motion? Of course it is. Scientists don't have the technology to probe the heights and depths of the universe. What can they know? And NO. Scientist CANNOT create water. I just told you, the element fire is missing. What scientists have are elements already made available to them. Who created the elements they use to put things together?

It really is a brilliant performance of an uneducated fanatic, but it's gone on a bit too long. Well played, but I'm done playing for now.

There are answers easily available to these questions. I'm sure others will point them out, and some have already been addressed here in this thread.

Ha.. the element of fire.. [shakes head]

Originally posted by ReturnofTheSonOfNothing

Originally posted by alienreality

Originally posted by supremecommander
Who created disease? Who created murderers? Thieves? Child molesters?

God created people whom some of them made the CHOICE to become murderers and thieves and molesters.. And people are still making their personal choice to be all kinds of assclowns to this day./ So sad...

But if god is all-knowing, all-seeing then he can see the future. Those people he made, he knew some of them would become murderers and thieves and molesters, and yet he still went ahead and made them.

So is he evil?

Why would that make God evil? Because he made someone who decided to do evil things? That doesn't make God evil at all..
Maybe he allows it so that these people doing horrendous evil will be an example to others of how NOT to be, and some others who grow up and see these examples will turn away from evil themselves and become doers of good things.. because they remembered in time, those who did evil things, and it appalled them to the point that they were sorry for their own poor judgement.

It isn't easy at all to understand why God does many things, but his value system is far far above ours.. there are many stories in the bible with examples of God doing things people didn't understand, but then later it was shown why he did them and it all made sense later.

Fire, earth, air and water are actually the four basic elements of nature.

Originally posted by BlackSunApocalypse
Fire, earth, air and water are actually the four basic elements of nature.

Not since about the 15th century, well unless you include captain planet reruns

reply to post by BlackSunApocalypse

No. They aren't.
Each is composed of various combinations of actual elements.

Fire is one of the four classical elements in ancient Greek philosophy and science. It was commonly associated with the qualities of energy, assertiveness, and passion. In one Greek myth, Prometheus stole fire from the gods to protect the otherwise helpless humans, but was punished for this charity.[1]

Fire was one of many archai proposed by the Pre-socratics, most of whom sought to reduce the cosmos, or its creation, by a single substance. Heraclitus (c. 535 BCE – c. 475 BCE) considered fire to be the most fundamental of all elements. He believed fire gave rise to the other three elements: "All things are an interchange for fire, and fire for all things, just like goods for gold and gold for goods."[2] He had a reputation for obscure philosophical principles and for speaking in riddles. He described how fire gave rise to the other elements as the: "upward-downward path", (ὁδὸς ἄνω κάτω),[3] a "hidden harmony" [4] or series of transformations he called the "turnings of fire", (πυρὸς τροπαὶ),[5] first into sea, and half that sea into earth, and half that earth into rarefied air. A concept that anticipates both the four classical elements of Empedocles and Aristotle's transmutation of the four elements into one another

Originally posted by BlackSunApocalypse
Fire, earth, air and water are actually the four basic elements of nature.

I know what you are trying to say, but that reference is pretty much old school alchemy sort of stuff, those things aren't really considered modern day elements..

reply to post by BlackSunApocalypse

The Greeks said that Helios drove the Sun across the sky each day. They were wrong.

Originally posted by BlackSunApocalypse
I would like anyone to try answering these questions.... Where does the wind come from? Who put the wind in motion? Who put the seasons in motion? Who put the planets in motion? Who created the water? Can scientist create water? Who gave humans eyes to see? Where does wisdom reside? Where does knowledge come from?

Love your thread BlackSunApocalypse.

Originally posted by BlackSunApocalypse
I would like anyone to try answering these questions.... Where does the wind come from? Who put the wind in motion? Who put the seasons in motion? Who put the planets in motion? Who created the water? Can scientist create water? Who gave humans eyes to see? Where does wisdom reside? Where does knowledge come from?

"Where does wind come from?"

Wind comes from heat from our sun. Hot air rises, and cooler air streams take the place of warmer air that has risen. And it ends up creating air streams know as "wind." And there are also a few other smaller more technical reasons.

"Who put the wind in motion?"

Nobody, it's simply the result of warm air and cool air reacting. As I said earlier, warm air rises, and cooler air fills the void where the warmer air used to be. In order for the air to be put into position, it is pulled over to where it is needed, or is rising to, creating wind.

"Who puts the planets in motion?"

Nobody once again. Planets are in motion because of the gravitational pull from our star, the sun.

"Who put the seasons in motion?"

The Earth did basically. The reason we have seasons, is because the earth spins on a tilt. When one particular part of the Earth is recieiving more warmth and sunlight, it's in either spring or summer, for obvious reasons. When the Sun doesn't shine as much as the rest of the planet, the region becomes colder, initiating your fall or winter seasons. During the winter the days are shorter, and nights are longer, and vise versa.

"Who created the water?"

No one. Under the right circumstances element join together to form compounds. Water is H2O (two hydrogen atoms, and 1 oxygen atom.) Elements react with each other all the time, and the results can vary. Some reactions create compounds, such as salt (chlorine and sodium.) Elements can also do something called oxidizing also known as "rust." Oxygen atoms slowly react to iron and create a residue known as rust. Other times an explosion is created, smoke, heat, etc. Compounds can be created easily if you know how to get them to react with one another.

"Can scientist create water?"

Yes, they can. It wouldn't be very difficult, considering Oxygen, and Hydrogen atoms are quite abundant on earth. Hyrdogen in particular is the most abundant element in the universe.

"Who gave humans eyes to see?"

Well a smart-ass reply would be my parents. I was created inside of my mothers whom, and at certain periods of time during the pregnancy, different parts of my body were developing. You'd be better of asking "Why do we have eyes?" instead.

"Where does wisdom reside?"

The best answer I can give is through experience. People who experience things more often, and look at things more carefully typically become "wiser." The more you exercise your brain, the more powerful it can become.

"Where does knowledge come from?"

Basically the same answer as the last question.

Originally posted by LightOrange
reply to post by alienreality

 

Sorry, my mistake. What you meant to say then is that you think you know -- not that you know for certain. Nobody knows for certain, sorry. I've had some pretty traumatic stuff happen in my life pertaining to my family and my faith in my adolescent years. Why did God come to you and not to me?

I wasn't hallucinating, I guess. My guess would be you passed out on the couch or something.

Things like this you can never be certain about, don't be intellectually dishonest with yourself.

How to Hallucinate Without Drugs

Sorry, but an anecdote isn't going to convince me to drink the Kool-Aid. People of all different faiths claim to have visions an such. My father claimed to have a vision of an angel by his bed when I was very young. In his later years he admitted that he made it up to have a story to tell the others at the church so that he could fit into the group. That's pretty much all of the explanation I'm going to bother digging up for you beyond the hallucination theory, which is probable.

edit on 5-9-2013 by LightOrange because: (no reason given)

I know what I know is actual fact those things I spoke of.. I know them with 100% certainty.

You are the one who is unsure. and it is you, and not me, who isn't certain. Don't try to take your personal uncertainty and superimpose it over my experiences to try and rubbish them. That is not helping understanding to do that.
Just admit that you aren't personally ready to believe, no matter what anyone tells you. There is nothing wrong with that. But to use your uncertainty to discredit my certainty of my experiences is not logical at all.
If you wish to think I was simply hallucinating, that is fine with me. I know that is completely untrue, but it doesn't bother me..

I lost my Mom to cancer 2 years ago and I prayed non stop for the whole year before she died that she be healed and saved, but that didn't happen because it was simply her time to go. She completed her mission here on earth and it was her time to go. I was the only in the family that was happy she was able to be free from the suffering she endured. I wasn't angry at God, he did nothing wrong, and I trust his plan for things.

The moment she died I could smell her perfume at my place even though she was 5 miles away at the family farm, and I immediately drove there because I knew she had passed, but stopped by to let me know she was going away. Some in the family were comforted about her passing when I told them, and they believed me because I arrived there within 10 minutes of her passing with the knowledge she had passed. This kind of stunned a few in the family, but it was a good thing for everyone.

Sometimes we just have to suffer and endure harsh things in life, and many times it all seems pointless, but it really has a reason, even when we don't understand, but in time perhaps we will understand..

You know....interesting questions but I think they're just phrased incorrectly...

Originally posted by BlackSunApocalypse
I would like anyone to try answering these questions.... Where does the wind come from? Who put the wind in motion? Who put the seasons in motion? Who put the planets in motion? Who created the water? Can scientist create water? Who gave humans eyes to see? Where does wisdom reside? Where does knowledge come from?

If it were me, I'd get really nitty gritty specific with my questions.

For example, you've received the answer

Wind comes from heat from our sun. Hot air rises, and cooler air streams take the place of warmer air that has risen. And it ends up creating air streams know as "wind." And there are also a few other smaller more technical reasons.

But you should be asking why are the physical laws of the universe established in such a manner that the fusion process of the sun can produce heat? Why is the energy always conserved?

Or for water you may ask....

Why is it that 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom form what we call water? Why don't they form something entirely different? Why is water even present within the universe?

Or perhaps something like....

Why does the Universe contain energy, complex chemistry, liquid solvent mediums, and protection from UV?....(all the basic requirements for life)

Or....

What dictates the behavior of the Universe and how did it come to be established?

A2D

I think threads on origin are created with the purpose to inspire deep thinking. Many threads having been created to try prove the existence or non-existence of God, but has any ever proven fruitful? And yet people go on debating about it. Opinions clash and nobody can prove the existence or non-existence of a supreme deity. We all strive to attain the highest potential within our bodies, but such aspirations is quickly cut short by death. Many accounts have been given about the afterlife, but such accounts are completely subjective. Nobody knows when the thread of life will be cut off from within them, nobody can see death coming. But the question is. Why do we die without knowing where we are going after death? Isn't it imperative to know the answer to this question? Everyone thinks differently, but nobody is really sure of where they are going, what does that mean? That we are blind? Asleep? If we are evolving and progressing, why does the world seem to be headed towards destruction?

More questions in line with the OPs ponderings that prove Deities:

Where do crayons come from? Who puts the wedges in ruffles potato chips? how are light bulbs made? what is 3+5? Why does hair grow on bodies?
See...absolute proof of God...how else would you explain any of these things?!!

/derp

Comedy aside ops, its comments like the opening that makes theists seem totally clueless. If I was a theist, I would be hammering you far more than any atheist would simply for giving the group a really bad name.

Almost a trolling.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree

You know....interesting questions but I think they're just phrased incorrectly...

Originally posted by BlackSunApocalypse
I would like anyone to try answering these questions.... Where does the wind come from? Who put the wind in motion? Who put the seasons in motion? Who put the planets in motion? Who created the water? Can scientist create water? Who gave humans eyes to see? Where does wisdom reside? Where does knowledge come from?

If it were me, I'd get really nitty gritty specific with my questions.

For example, you've received the answer

Wind comes from heat from our sun. Hot air rises, and cooler air streams take the place of warmer air that has risen. And it ends up creating air streams know as "wind." And there are also a few other smaller more technical reasons.

But you should be asking why are the physical laws of the universe established in such a manner that the fusion process of the sun can produce heat? Why is the energy always conserved?


Or for water you may ask....

Why is it that 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom form what we call water? Why don't they form something entirely different? Why is water even present within the universe?

Or perhaps something like....

Why does the Universe contain energy, complex chemistry, liquid solvent mediums, and protection from UV?....(all the basic requirements for life)

Or....

What dictates the behavior of the Universe and how did it come to be established?

A2D

edit on 5-9-2013 by Agree2Disagree because: (no reason given)

But all those questions are answered simply with a "it just does". Why doesn't the sun emit jelly babies, or water tell jokes? because it doesn't.
Why is blue the color of blue? because if it wasn't, we would call whatever color that would be, blue anyhow.

Of course there are long complicated answers for every single question you pose, but I suspect your just asking generally why, and not any specific thing outside of why...why does reality exist..why am I experiencing reality.

But even then, with the more broad why question it still doesn't demand a deity is involved.

It could of course.
If I was a singular deity that has existed for always, I would eventually want to understand myself, so start creating different references, different breakdowns of parts of myself, etc...but this is all just wild random philosophy and no where even remotely close to any sort of evidence of anything outside of "smoke talk".

I find it quite weird that a singular deity (if you were one) would try to be understanding itself.

If you were a singular deity trying to understand yourself, it would mean you're blind to "reality" and psychologically asleep.

Originally posted by alienreality

Why would that make God evil? Because he made someone who decided to do evil things? That doesn't make God evil at all..
Maybe he allows it so that these people doing horrendous evil will be an example to others of how NOT to be, and some others who grow up and see these examples will turn away from evil themselves and become doers of good things.. because they remembered in time, those who did evil things, and it appalled them to the point that they were sorry for their own poor judgement.
:

So you think this is fine then. God is aware that this Ted Bundy guy is going to do some bad things, but that's ok because he will serve as a bad example to all.

Why not just not allow him to rape and murder and canibalize people in the first place? What about the poor sods who are his victims, do you think they got a good deal out of it?

To quote Tracie Harris, who said something similar a little while back -

You either have a God who sends child rapists to rape children or you have a God who simply watches it and says, ‘When you’re done, I’m going to punish you.' If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That’s the difference between me and your God

Ok so then we invariably get the "Well God works in mysterious ways" malarkey that you followed up with. Basically saying that the ends justify the means.

I don't buy that line of reasoning from anyone. The ends never justify the means.


Here's another rather famous quote (often attributed to Epicuris) which is relevant -

"Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent. Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" from Atheism: Jonathan Miller's Brief History of Disbelief

Everyone has evil within them, whether such evil is manifest or not. We all have good & evil. Some manifest theirs as an example to others, and often displaying their evil deeds is not meant as an example, but in the end, somebody does learn from it. I think what's important is to be the change we wish to see in the world, to manifest a new example, a good example, an example of love and peace. Instead of condemning those who do evil (and pretending we don't have evil) we should rather try to understand such people and through our example create a solution for them.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


Its more likely the opposite is true. More wars over my god is better then your god then anything else.