Fast-food walkout U.S. workers strike in several cities to call attention to low wages.

reply to post by neo96

Don't recall saying anything remotely like this.

No you most certainly didn't...you spend your time trashing those who have less. You've been doing it for years. Sorry, class warfare swings both ways pal.

Middle and poor classes have betting getting their asses kicked. Wealth disparity is exploding...half the people in this country (150 million) don't even have the same total net worth of the top 400 wealthiest families in this country.

Yet here you are crying about minimum wage.

Originally posted by LightOrange

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by doobydoll

Not everyone on the planet wants a career job, it shouldn't mean they don't deserve a wage they can live on.

I guess thats the Difference between the UK and USA. Here you don’t deserve anything. You must work for it, no handouts. The country was founded on the pursuit of happiness. Not the handout of happiness.

Why do you deserve anything? just because your born?

Yes, the magnificent US. Where you spend 5 years and $45,000 getting a degree that won't get you a job despite your hard work ethic because you have no experience in the field beyond having a degree.

So you get a job at the only place you can which pays garbage wages and can't live off of. All to be hassled by ignorant buffoons like yourself who have never had a problem getting a job because they have the work experience because they're not young and they think everything is exactly the same for younger people now as it was in the time that they grew up in.

Your ignorance is repulsive.

edit on 29-8-2013 by LightOrange because: (no reason given)

This sounds like someone who may over value their own experience and skill.

The way I am reading, Camaro is older and has put his time into his work, developing skill that exceeds that of his peers. You hold a grudge because you are young, not older. And you lack the experience he has spent his life gaining, bemoaning the compensation he gets for the years spent gaining his skill.

That, my friend, is the epitome of "self entitlement".

reply to post by David9176

No you most certainly didn't...you spend your time trashing those who have less. You've been doing it for years. Sorry, class warfare swings both ways pal.

Sorry pointing out fraud and abuse is not class warfare. Simple fact that take money away from those who truly need it.

And yep someone sure does need to stop crying about the minmum wage and their parroted political talking point 'wealth disparity'.

Because well lets take a look at the numbers:

17 trillion in debt.

125 trillion dollars promises made that can never be paid for.

And my personal favorite the household assets that are 75 trillion dollars.

Seems someone has spun a false narrative for some odd reason.

www.usdebtclock.org...

reply to post by David9176



The only real class warfare going on is the tax system.

Originally posted by filledcup
reply to post by MikeNice81

 

you know what the scare was.. here's what the scare was..

"oh my God if we dont stop this now the working class will gain a sense of value for themselves. we wont have anymore poor ppl to look down on and force to work crappy jobs for even crappier pay. regular ppl are going to accumulate SAVINGS in their bank account. we've got to stop this now!"

that's what the scare was.

edit on 29-8-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)

I should have put scare in quotes. I wasn't scared. Market corrections are actually a good thing. Not because it gives people a sense of self-value, but it gets prices back to where they should be. It actually returns value to the dollar. It actually helps everybody if it occurs in the right doses. Even though it may cause temporary pain it actually evens things back out in the long run.

If you step back and look at the macro view you would see that wages are only a small part of the issue with savings.

Originally posted by earthling42
...minimum wage should not be below the poverty line.

What sort of pay should?

If you don't pay the workers enough then they won't be able to buy the goods that the capitalists are selling and then your economy ends up in a recession.

reply to post by neo96

Sorry pointing out fraud and abuse is not class warfare. Simple fact that take money away from those who truly need it.

Who is taking the money? Single mother working a minimum wage job? A man who lost his job to outsourcing and is unable to find work that pays similar because he is too old and considered a risk to an employer? The woman who was severely injured in an accident and can't afford to pay her bills since she can no longer work?

Yeah, there are people who abuse the system, but the vast majority do not. It's all they have...and quite frankly...without these assistance programs....this country would have went into peril long ago. The wealthiest of this nation wouldn't have amassed the wealth they have without it. They have been able to keep the economy going by handing out assistance to those whose jobs they destroyed....and filling their own pockets at the same time.

Originally posted by polarwarrior
If you don't pay the workers enough then they won't be able to buy the goods that the capitalists are selling and then your economy ends up in a recession.

Of course they can. They get credit cards.

That is how the scam works.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by polarwarrior
If you don't pay the workers enough then they won't be able to buy the goods that the capitalists are selling and then your economy ends up in a recession.

Of course they can. They get credit cards.

That is how the scam works.

Or the taxpayer has to fork out for it. In Australia the government gave everyone 900$ to stimulate the economy. In America extensive welfare will do it.

But why should the taxpayer have to pay for it? I say make the corporations pay a living wage.

reply to post by MikeNice81

Prices falling due to business crashes is not a lowering of consumption on those goods or on them necessarily. Its a crash they had to take a loss or totally lose it, prices were not lowering they were bidding for the market. Because no body would buy anything or even consider it if they did not and somebody else would have come into the picture. What government did by saving them is all in self interest, if things crash they would be out of there cushy jobs, and no incentives from businesses to keep the playing field in there favor. If your under the premise that they don't know each other or didn't know this was going to happen your under the wrong premise.

And so they took tax monies form tax payers gave themselves bonuses for a job well done and kept the business going by cutting costs. There is a reason why these bubbles such as in the housing market happen every few years, its all just part of the over all process and it is about cutting costs, in the housing market mainly because they buy back those houses for a fraction of the cost. Then they usually sit on it for the market to pick up, which eventually it will because in a moving market it always will as long as people are alive and breeding there will always be fact because that's all business are catering to the needs and fancies of a group of people, in a large group you would know that as society. So ya, there are no crashes. Especially in the food business. That is unless you think somehow people will find a way around on living without eating any time soon.

And for CEO I am sure they do something other then sit around shuffle papers and try to come up with new ways and schemes to increase profit margins. But I am sure the paper shifting alone will keep them busy for a majority of there day so no doubt they do something. But if anybody thinks there not there to increase profit margins by any ways and means necessary there completely oblivious to what they exist to do in the first place. If that were not so they would not be having the job in the first place, or moved on up to that level and place, or would be fired long ago.

And a greater part of why companies do as they do is because they don't have to worry about there employees, there quite sure they got that part in the bag. This is just the same old thing that has been going on for ages only under a new quise and name. Oh and you know were else prices are falling in Africa or in war torn countries, they got it pretty cheep there. Like I said its how the system is built and price's will continue to increase no matter what people get paid, or what anybody does, both for necessities and commodities and everything else in a society.

So unless the whole society crashes it will be as so, till it crashes. In general you can tell were a society and market is at by the fluctuations in there markets, usually if things increase rapidly in costs of living and else they are in a downfall even if they don't know it, if there in a steady increase in cost of living and else its more composed and steady even if they don't know it. But in either case its all eventually reaching the same end just choosing different paths to get there, thereby effecting the nature of the shift in economy and the world in general when it does happen.

reply to post by David9176


Missed the GD point.

Why are those programs even 'needed' ?

WHY ?

Ever stopped to think for every wage increase there is a corresponding rise in welfare program usage?

Ever stopped to think for every tax increase there is a corresponding rise in welfare program usage ?

Ever stopped to think for every regulation there is a corresponding rise in welfare program usage ?

This aint rocket science here.Some people need to face the fact. That everything they support to 'help' people out is the very same ideology that is destroying them.

But some people don't care they just fall back to the standard corporate vilification. Because for some asinine reason they are letting their political ideology cloud their common sense.

Can't help it if some people don't want to see that. Some never will.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Of course they can. They get credit cards.

Until they max them out. Those controlling government and the banking system have been creative is trying to keep the middle class afloat and the economy moving and still being able to maintain the massive influx of cash to those at the top.

Easy credit, government assistance, etc....all meant to replace what has been lost through the same people that sent their jobs overseas or destroyed their benefits.

So far, they haven't had to pay up.....the middle class nor the poor has the money....but the same people that passed the very laws we live under that put us in the situation we are in.....the wealthy....do.

They have to pay up.....whether it be through taxes or better wages. There is no other way. If people don't have money to spend then the economy will not grow. Jobs are not created because someone has a billion dollars....demand has to be there....and to have demand....people have to have money.

Every single one of us who has a job is completely reliant on the wages of everyone else who is consumer. It's better to have millions of customers with more money than 5 guys with 50 billion dollars. 5 guys aren't going to buy a million pairs of shoes, magazines, etc.

And with that increased demand, that means more employment to meet that demand, and higher wages as the job market would far better. Instead of taking away benefits, they can be offered again to try to stay competitive for the best employees.

Right now everything is in a downward spiral, or stagnant, at best.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by LightOrange

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by doobydoll

Not everyone on the planet wants a career job, it shouldn't mean they don't deserve a wage they can live on.

I guess thats the Difference between the UK and USA. Here you don’t deserve anything. You must work for it, no handouts. The country was founded on the pursuit of happiness. Not the handout of happiness.

Why do you deserve anything? just because your born?

Yes, the magnificent US. Where you spend 5 years and $45,000 getting a degree that won't get you a job despite your hard work ethic because you have no experience in the field beyond having a degree.

So you get a job at the only place you can which pays garbage wages and can't live off of. All to be hassled by ignorant buffoons like yourself who have never had a problem getting a job because they have the work experience because they're not young and they think everything is exactly the same for younger people now as it was in the time that they grew up in.

Your ignorance is repulsive.

edit on 29-8-2013 by LightOrange because: (no reason given)

This sounds like someone who may over value their own experience and skill.

The way I am reading, Camaro is older and has put his time into his work, developing skill that exceeds that of his peers. You hold a grudge because you are young, not older. And you lack the experience he has spent his life gaining, bemoaning the compensation he gets for the years spent gaining his skill.

That, my friend, is the epitome of "self entitlement".

HAH.

Adorable; bless.

It's amazing how the group-think never fails to take the bait and start sputtering the rhetoric.

I've made my millions in software and technology.

I just don't lack perspective and happen to have critical thinking skills.

Not everyone has the capacity to better themselves and push themselves to the top.

Not everyone has skills that benefit the masses as much as others.

Everyone still deserves to be paid a wage which they can live on regardless.

If everyone had a well-paying career and made themselves in demand for businesses, then nobody would be in demand for businesses because everyone would be working their tails off just as much as the next guy. You can't tell a group of people that the solution to their problem is to make themselves high in demand, because if the group does that then their previous positions are replaced with other people who will assume their wages that they cannot live off of and the problem persists. Also, they are going to be in competition with eachother and the demand will be void. You guys have HORRIBLE problem solving skills.

The real problem isn't that people have to find better jobs (because those jobs will be filled with more people who will be taken advantage of and won't have enough income to live off of and the problem will not go away for the general population), the problem is that these hug corporations can afford to take less from their franchisees, allowing the franchisees to pay higher wages to their staff. $15 an hour for an entry level fast-food worker is obviously ludicrous, but $10 an hour is absolutely not. That's what my sister has been paying her staff to scoop icrecream in a hut on the beach for the past 6 years. And you think McDonalds raising their wages to match that is going to collapse the whole economy? Amazing statement from people chiming about getting better educations; ripe with irony. Maybe you guys should've stayed in 11th grade math.

Stop parroting the same old partisan rhetoric from the 20th century and you might get a little more respect for your rather adolescent opinions.

Perhaps all this talk of "they aren't worth any more" might be fair enough if capitalism was actually working.

but it isn't.

the last 5 years have shown that what is called "capitalism" is actually tax-payer funded social security for big business.

Capitalism requires that investors take the risk to go along with the gain - if they are not taking the risk then there is no case to answer that they should be allowed to take the gain.

The story of the neo-liberal western economies of the last 30 years - whether it be Reganomics in the USA or Rogernomics in New Zealand or any-other-nomics anywhere else is that short term shareholders have taken capital and investment out of industry - shareholders go for short term capital gains and pay CEO's who can achieve that for them.

In the meantime investment in infrastructure - both physical and social - has been allowed to lag in the west - productivity is down, real wages are down, the wealth owned by the top few % is massively up.

this has not been because the top few % are making more or coming up with great ideas about efficiency or anything else - it is purely down to grabbing short term gains and bugger any effect that might have on long term prosperity.

You want to live in the richest country in the world, with a stable active democracy and the respect of everyone else? Well you can't do it when a massive portion of your population is reduced to poverty levels with no realistic means of getting above them. THAT sort of situation leads to revolution - and not the kind that ends up with a nice liberal democracy at the end of the rainbow!!

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I take it you just came out into the workforce during when it was still new and malleable.

Remember how i said "minimum wage employees tend to earn minimum wage for a reason"? Yeah....if you make a long commute to work fast food....you might lack the insight to do a whole lot more. Unless you live in Detriot and that is all the work that is available.

Like I said most if any work is the same, there all for a majority corporate. But ya I agree why would anybody make that long a commute to work when its not even worth it. It would be better to leave the town or country if necessary, in fact may as well consider the whole place a #hole as that's what it is. If you dont make enoph to get buy and a little to save the place is a #hole and you would probably be better off living in town communes like they did in the dark ages.

I suppose they could go to school get a dimploma or something but even for that there is a completion with a few hundread or thousands of people for the very same spot. Ultimately I have seen time and time again its not about what you know but more so about who you know. And this socity runs on stupid people, in fact it breeds them as a way to keep going, the top mirrors the bottom more often then not. I seen people who were as smart as a bag of briks who were making over 6 digits yearly and vice versa. One guy in particular only because he got freaky ie sexual relationship with a woman who got freaky with one of the head honchos at a big money business literally it was about who he know. yet I was surprised the guy could even read but he had no problem operating million dollar equipment as he was a machinist of sorts. Though all of that is pretty much automated a could operate it after a few hours of instructions and a few days of getting used to it.

But ya I agree they should literally leave as its a slave trap. Not many of them can, and we cant all do meaningless jobs like shuffling paperwork back and forth all day, in fact that to can be automated to be done by one computer. But you know its not about what has worth. Its about what has precised worth, which is why our society and whole paper money credit system even works, ie perceived worth. The majority of them have been suckered in to it. But hey you life and you learn. I am quite sure they will ultimately adapt. And in Detroit? Well selling a bit of drugs on the side you would make more in a month then people would make in half a year working jobs. The drug trade is pretty big, though on the higher scales such as the US drug czar you make way more money on the lower scale you still would make more then the average job would pay. I know people who paid there way through collage and into a lucrative position by that alone.

You "go there" so you can learn how to be employed. How to service others. To build a resume so you can move onwards and upwards. If your retirement plan includes a check from Taco Bell, you might not have enough insight to achieve a whole lot more.

NO you go there to make money. That what a job is, I dont think anybody cares if you have McDonalds on your resume, in fact most resumes are so greatly exaggerated that its the ones who are great at selling themselves who actually get ahead. What your talking about does not exist, maybe in the Disney age magical kingdom age you came from it did. Now a days it doesn't. Like the fact that mom and pop stores do not exist to any percentage to be considered at all, in fact last time I bee in one was well only when i was traveling to other countries. But ya like I said there working bellow the poverty limit, there working for the pleasure to keep on working. No body works to learn how to be employed. What kind of stupid retarded # is that? They work for money and its a transaction, it says I do this and thereby you give me this. Especially given the fact that by the time you get our of there you would likely be more in dept then when you went in.

Nah like I said dude. This system and society can not support all the populous, the illusion is in getting them to think it can. The carrot dangling in front of there noses. What are we all to be doctors or ceo's? Not that its not possible, its not even all that hard. But the system can not support it. It comes down to that. Its basically just based on illusions and bull#...It's basically crap. My advice to them is to forget the whole thing as its even designed to never go anywhere but for a few and even then only as long as it lasts, they would all be better off letting it completely crash and moving to something else. If I had to say what exactly it is...Its class warfare things have been shifted around a bit, but its that to many degrees. And they should know it, and keep it in mind because it is what it is.

reply to post by Thorneblood

Where do you think all the educated people went to get jobs in the past few years?

A degree in Women's Studies is not marketable.

STEM is where it's at.

But people choose to major in pointless disciplines like history or "the arts." So....they are fully qualified for a career at McDonalds.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by polarwarrior
If you don't pay the workers enough then they won't be able to buy the goods that the capitalists are selling and then your economy ends up in a recession.

Of course they can. They get credit cards.

That is how the scam works.

It also ruins the economy, because you're introducing money into the system that shouldn't exist and much of it will never be paid off.

Same as these people saying that raising their wages isnt the answer and they should get an education. Guess what? To get an education, most people need to take out a loan. Again, introducing more money that shouldn't exist into circulation, much of which will never be paid off.

The more money there is circulating, the less it's worth per dollar. Supply and demand.

The most common proposed "solution" in this thread from a certain political faction creates the exact same problem that it claims to avoid: inflation. Ignorance is bliss, though, I suppose.

reply to post by LightOrange


I make myself "high in demand" by knowing how to run a business. I take whichever job is available when I am looking and go from there.

It is my skills that are in demand, not the job I do. The job I do is just an extension of how I actualize those skills.

People deserve the wage that they work to earn. If someone puts more effort into positioning themselves for a higher wage, then great. They have done the work.

Meanwhile, if someone just stands behind the counter at Chipotle bitching about their lack of pay and no executive bathroom key, then they will reap what they sow.

I didn't go to college. I worked my ass off. I earned what I have with hard work. Why should I not expect the same from others? Or should they get a free ride for the hell of it?

In the real world there are no "Participant" ribbons.

Originally posted by filledcup
reply to post by MikeNice81

 

you know what the scare was.. here's what the scare was..

"oh my God if we dont stop this now the working class will gain a sense of value for themselves. we wont have anymore poor ppl to look down on and force to work crappy jobs for even crappier pay. regular ppl are going to accumulate SAVINGS in their bank account. we've got to stop this now!"

that's what the scare was.

edit on 29-8-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)

ya its why they got people like Neo here every day. The sheep dogs keeping the sheep in line, most of them don't even know it both the sheep and the sheep dogs, but you find them on every such thread like magic every time. Many things have been twisted beyond there orignal scope. Even this working for time thing? I mean think about it, its a complete scam. And you can bet they dont work for time hourly, its merely another way to keep people entrapped.

Why do you think the rich dont send there kids to the same schools as the poor. Its an entrapment procedure were one social class lives of the other. I bet not one of them have thought why do I work hourly when the mangers are on salary and the owners get a cut of the profits and then some? I mean humanity has gotten stupider. Even in times past when you went to do something, or build something. Everybody involved would know the stakes and keep a percentage% of the total outcome of what it was they were doing or working on.

I suppose somebody must of figured out or been thought that they would be able to take or shift a lot the monies to there end by switching things around and century after century generation after generation they have breed and ingrained such methods into the culled populous. I mean take the models they use in fast food joints. Now you have a business, it sells food. Its got its quotas and its got its expensiveness, but no doubt it makes money lots of money judging by the fact that the top is literally giving themselves millions and millions of dollars in bonuses each and every year.

But at the end of the day it comes down to it being a transaction like it has been going on since cavemen times. We do this we get this much out of it, and everybody gets a percentage or share of the total outcome at the end of the day, or month or year, or whatever.

Now what happens when you introduce time into the equation or the idea that some of the people who are working for that or this is instead going to switch to a hourly system? Yup you guessed it, somebody is shifting energy or $$ over on up. That's all it is really, and I could go on this thing is old and probably write a book on it or a few books. But you get the picture its basically engrained into the human populous very mind and being by now. Which is why you have the rich sending there kids to different schools and the poor get there own special version of what it is they should believe which is neatly written by there interests. It is literally on some levels though subtle class warfare, and it has been going on for centuries. In fact its in human nature to do so, and may be the only way they can operate. The duality of this place and world is sickening in many ways, or better said humanity is a retarded species. This is definitely a problem, is what I am saying.