Fast-food walkout U.S. workers strike in several cities to call attention to low wages.

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Are you aware of the crisis in the engineering field? Companies imported Indian engineers and laid off the American engineers. They demanded the Americans train their replacements or not get the severance package offered. Now these engineers are out of jobs! The Indians have filled all the good jobs at less money, and they only hire other Indian co-workers.

This will happen all across the board, and you just don't seem to get it. America is being dismantled.

I personally had a bad moment with symantec trying to get customer assistance for my computer years ago. I would explain everything and they would tell me the same and same bs again and again. Basically do this or format your hard drive. those folks could barely speak english and were daft as hell.

I heard microsoft has outsourced tech support as well. Not good for american workers, not good for customers either.

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
Yes, but you could teach a burger flipper to do cardiac surgery.

And then that burger flipper would have made an effort and would have a special skill and deserve more money. He'd deserve more money than the other burger flippers who didn't bother to learn something. He could leave his entry level burger flipping job and become a doctor and get paid better like he'd deserve at that point.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

Thanks for speaking some sense.

I think that econ is not understood by a lot of these guys.

Walmart makes hundreds of Billions in profits every year, off the backs of their tax payers subsidized, minimum wage "unskilled" workers.

So if these workers are making hundreds of billions in profits for Walmart, they are obviously worth hundreds of billions, as that is what they are creating with their labor.

Businesses above a certain size and or profit range, should have their workers pay tied directly to their profits.

If Walmart makes 400 billion in profits, at least 1/2 of that should be going to their workers, as they are the ones making all of that money possible in the first place.

There are very few people working in an office, that are actually making their company money, yet they are making hundreds and even thousands more, than the workers that are actually producing all of the companies goods, or providing all of their companies services.

Labor is now, and always has been the sector creating wealth for these companies, it is time they pony up.

The CEO cant make hundreds of times more than his workers, if there are no workers working, and that is where our economy is headed.

As why work, when welfare pays for better, and requires far sweat and muscle ache.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Why dont you just buy poor people a loaded gun and say:
" F**K you, You're worthless, here's a gun, the bathrooms that way"

Why don't you stick to the facts instead of interjecting straw man absurdiums?
Discuss the economics instead of the emotional and insulting rhetoric.

Originally posted by catt3
Being a fast food worker is not a career, it is for people to make some extra money. Unless you want to be a manager or franchise owner. Any increase in wages is an increase in price for the consumer. From what I have seen the workers are either in school or dropped out of school or someone looking to make a little extra cash, I have met very few people who are trying to live on what they make.

I like how right away you say it would be a rise hike on the consumer... why not a hit on the profit margin that is HUGE and more than enough to cover the increase without passing the cost on to the consumers.

also...fast food not a career.. maybe some people want that as a career.. there are strange people.. i met one guy who wished to work at the library that was his goal.. i dind't understand it but to each their own..

what would happen if everyone aspired to be a doctor.... you would get a saturation of doctors to the point where wages would go down simply because there are too many of them...

slamming on minimum wage jobs is retarded... minimum wage workers helps with everyones quality of life... yet people look down on them and want them to settle for crappy pay and a crappy way of life.

you can't have too many chiefs and not enough indians.. or too many actors and no audience... we shouldn't treat them like crap


also there shouldn't be a minimum wage there should be a maximum wage.. that way anything beyond the maximum is invested into the company ie the employees.

Originally posted by oblvion
I think that econ is not understood by a lot of these guys.

Actually, your next statement says that YOU don't understand economics.

Walmart makes hundreds of Billions in profits every year, off the backs of their tax payers subsidized, minimum wage "unskilled" workers. So if these workers are making hundreds of billions in profits for Walmart, they are obviously worth hundreds of billions, as that is what they are creating with their labor.

Unskilled laborers are a dime a dozen and can be replaced with just about anyone. There is nothing special about them. They are not worth more than their minimum wage. It is irrelevant to their salary that the company makes profits. There is no profit sharing with Walmart. Walmart isn't required to do so. And a good chunk of Walmarts profit comes from management knowing how a business is run; understanding what to invest in; understanding how much inventory to have on hand and how much to order and when to order, etc etc. The average Walmart employee who sits behind the cash register hasn't got a clue how to do any of that. The company could run just fine if that cash register employee quit .. but it would have a harder time running if the management who understand business quit. Therefore, the cash register employee is not worth nearly as much to the company as the management who has a business degree and understands how to run the company.

Basic economics.

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Are you aware of the crisis in the engineering field? Companies imported Indian engineers and laid off the American engineers. They demanded the Americans train their replacements or not get the severance package offered. Now these engineers are out of jobs! The Indians have filled all the good jobs at less money, and they only hire other Indian co-workers.

This will happen all across the board, and you just don't seem to get it. America is being dismantled.

BINGO!!!!

All the time saying the same nonsense " get better skills" "get a better job" "these are low skill jobs" ....etc.

While completely dismissing the fact that over half the country is in poverty, and the only jobs available are these "entry level" "low skill" "brainless" jobs.

Like most though, they will ignore it as long as they arent being pilfered .....yet.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Well, yes and no. Just learning how to do ONE specific heart surgery probably isn't going to make him an insta-doctor. He did learn an extra skill and he did increase his value to others in society.

And, just to point out that I'm not trying to directly argue with you (but merley point out stuff) I'll add this:

*Chances are the burger flipper won't be interested in learning that one specific heart surgery. It might take 5-6 months of doing it over and over and over. Typically people my age in the fast food industry have either just recently been laid off and are in between jobs or don't have an ounce of ambition.

I'm trying to learn desktop publishing right now to increase my potential value. Even if it's just self-taught courses and tutorials off of YouTube right now, I can claim I have experience with the software. It'll also make any formal classes and certs I go for much easier as well.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


How about your empower the poor to think that there is better and they do not have to use that gun to rob old ladies or liquor stores? if someone does not want to better themselves, they will not. Nothing can change this and it is rampant nowadays. Some are content to stay in one place and complain and blame everyone but themselves for not getting ahead. It can be done. You can break the cycle. I mean, the president came from a poor single mother and he attained the highest office in the country.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


This is one of my favorite stories...

Ma n outsources own job

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I am not about to go through 11 pages of replies to find whatever you said, just saying!

The response to your question was just a few replies before ... just saying!

How was i suppose to know that? Wouldnt it just have been easier to answer the question?

Who said anything about a flat wage?

That IS what you are calling for.

No, that's what you're ASSUMING im calling for, which isnt the case.

If you raise burger flippers wages to equal that of chemists,

Which im not advocating.

then chemists will demand (and deserve) higher wages.

"Deserve" There's that word again. Chemist's "Deserve" to have a living wage because they are more important than the other human being who flips burgers? Really now?

are you going to raise the wages of everyone across the board by 100% like you did with burger flippers?

No, im going to pay the burger flipper's a wage that is above the stated poverty line. Im not stupid or greedy you see, i understand that the people in these jobs are human being, skilled or not, The business is f**ked without them.

They will deserve it. The economic system will demand it.

And i will say NO. And explain that they should be on a higher wage than a burger flipper but not by a substantial amount. I care not for how much they cry if they're making a decent wage at the end of the day.

If you don't, then you are giving a flat wage to everyone no matter what their skills or qualifications or educations are.

No im not. Chemists would still be on a higher wage, it just wouldnt be ridiculously higher. Wage discrepancy is creating economic inequalities.

And that's a flat wage .... communistic. (which fails)

Wrong again.

I think you just accept the inequalities in the system because you're probably benefiting from them

Don't even try that 'silver spoon' crap.
If you read the past 11 pages .. you'd know how dead wrong your insinuations are.

We've been through this, im not going to read every post you made in this thread Call me lazy but im tired and off to bed soon!

So if everyone took your advice, we'd all end up low paid anyhow?

Nope. There are always entry level positions.

Even for plumbers!? C'mon now, you said it yourself, if we all became plumbers teh average wage would go down significantly. The west does not have enough "skilled jobs" for everyone, the service sector is massive and largely unskilled, we have two choice's, we pay a proper wage that's good for the economy or we screw our economy because half the workforce cant afford things. You decide!

There are always higher up positions. There are always those in the middle.

Far, FAR to many over-paid idiots in the middle who cant even perform the basics of their job competently.

It's up to the person to start at entry level and work their way up. It takes time. As they rise up through the ranks, others come in at entry level and those up top retire or die off.

Not sure about the US but its not worked that way in the UK for a LONG time. Up until the crash, a graduate could easily walk into a job they'd never done before rather than the employer promoting someone who was effectively "working their way up"

Most companies dont give a # about their employee's that's why you cant get a proper service any more because people jump from place to place every 3 years or so.

Im off to bed anyhow! I fully support their strike action, long over due!

Originally posted by matafuchs
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

How about your empower the poor to think that there is better and they do not have to use that gun to rob old ladies or liquor stores?

Im pretty sure but i could be wrong, the already rich and wealthy are more notorious for robbing people rather than the collective poor. If we all trained to be skilled worker's there wouldnt be enough jobs to support everyone everyone, do you deny that?

if someone does not want to better themselves, they will not. Nothing can change this and it is rampant nowadays. Some are content to stay in one place and complain and blame everyone but themselves for not getting ahead. It can be done. You can break the cycle. I mean, the president came from a poor single mother and he attained the highest office in the country.

Haha, you believe that about the president, really now?

Im off to bed, thanks for the laugh

The ignorance and utter greed shown throughout this thread is disgusting.
I think most of you must surely be employers! afraid that you may actually be forced to pay a HEALTHY wage.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Why dont you just buy poor people a loaded gun and say:
" F**K you, You're worthless, here's a gun, the bathrooms that way"

Why don't you stick to the facts instead of interjecting straw man absurdiums?
Discuss the economics instead of the emotional and insulting rhetoric.

I am schooling the economic's on this thread, get your note pad out

reply to post by oblvion


You're very welcome

Originally posted by VoidHawk

The ignorance and utter greed shown throughout this thread is disgusting.
I think most of you must surely be employers! afraid that you may actually be forced to pay a HEALTHY wage.

What constitutes a healthy wage?? When should a company pay that to a person? Upon hire or after a probationary/ training period??

Originally posted by matafuchs
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

How about your empower the poor to think that there is better and they do not have to use that gun to rob old ladies or liquor stores? if someone does not want to better themselves, they will not. Nothing can change this and it is rampant nowadays. Some are content to stay in one place and complain and blame everyone but themselves for not getting ahead. It can be done. You can break the cycle. I mean, the president came from a poor single mother and he attained the highest office in the country.

The globalists want to crash all the developed countries and raise the third world ones to enable their demonic one world government disorder. When all the decent jobs get outsourced it shouldnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out. I am talking BOTH service and manufacturing jobs.

And automation as well. A robot can make cars faster and keep prices low to increase both demand and supply. Just watching discovery channel *how its made* tells the whole story. I have watched many episodes and while entertaining its also sad. People lose jobs and have to get other lower paying jobs, which means less income to spend, government collects less taxes and has to borrow more, it can lead to unemployment and welfare.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by oblvion
I think that econ is not understood by a lot of these guys.

Actually, your next statement says that YOU don't understand economics.

Walmart makes hundreds of Billions in profits every year, off the backs of their tax payers subsidized, minimum wage "unskilled" workers. So if these workers are making hundreds of billions in profits for Walmart, they are obviously worth hundreds of billions, as that is what they are creating with their labor.

Unskilled laborers are a dime a dozen and can be replaced with just about anyone. There is nothing special about them. They are not worth more than their minimum wage. It is irrelevant to their salary that the company makes profits. There is no profit sharing with Walmart. Walmart isn't required to do so. And a good chunk of Walmarts profit comes from management knowing how a business is run; understanding what to invest in; understanding how much inventory to have on hand and how much to order and when to order, etc etc. The average Walmart employee who sits behind the cash register hasn't got a clue how to do any of that. The company could run just fine if that cash register employee quit .. but it would have a harder time running if the management who understand business quit. Therefore, the cash register employee is not worth nearly as much to the company as the management who has a business degree and understands how to run the company.

Basic economics.

yeah we should treat unskilled labor as crap.. News flash... no management in the world can get a business to flourish if it is not by the work force... they both kinda need each other..

saying one is m ore important than the other is retarded.

Chew on this..


You know when you go to your store to buy your groceries.. you don't have to waddle through a parking lot full of gunk.. or see huge over grown bushes and lawns... nope you see a nice clean parking lot and nicely trimmed bushes and lawns..

you go to work and when you go sit at your desk you notice how nice your work building looks.. You notice the clean windows, the clean toilets, and the nice new towels in the restroom.

yeah all that crap just happens magically.

A few weeks ago our cleaning lady at my office went on vacation... for some reason management didn't replace her for that week. I WAS DIEING FOR HER TO COME BACK. My office fell apart and the restroom on all floors were the pits.

I took her for granted. I didn't know where to put the excess paper and it was cluttered all over the desk. I didn't have time to do that I had stuff I needed to do.. and the mess made it difficult and uncomfortable.

Your view on the unskilled laborer is disturbing.

they make it happen.. if all the unskilled labor stayed home one day this place would fall apart PRONTO. it wouldn't take a few weeks or months it would be auto matic.

Why they should not deserve a decent wage??

cutting from the top of companies that make more than enough as profit is not going to break them if they shell out extra cash to the people who make the plans of management happen everyday.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by oblvion
I think that econ is not understood by a lot of these guys.

Actually, your next statement says that YOU don't understand economics.

Walmart makes hundreds of Billions in profits every year, off the backs of their tax payers subsidized, minimum wage "unskilled" workers. So if these workers are making hundreds of billions in profits for Walmart, they are obviously worth hundreds of billions, as that is what they are creating with their labor.

Unskilled laborers are a dime a dozen and can be replaced with just about anyone. There is nothing special about them. They are not worth more than their minimum wage. It is irrelevant to their salary that the company makes profits. There is no profit sharing with Walmart. Walmart isn't required to do so. And a good chunk of Walmarts profit comes from management knowing how a business is run; understanding what to invest in; understanding how much inventory to have on hand and how much to order and when to order, etc etc. The average Walmart employee who sits behind the cash register hasn't got a clue how to do any of that. The company could run just fine if that cash register employee quit .. but it would have a harder time running if the management who understand business quit. Therefore, the cash register employee is not worth nearly as much to the company as the management who has a business degree and understands how to run the company.

Basic economics.

I dont think your seeing what I am saying, here I will explain it more fully.

The economy is sagging in response to a reduced pool of people purchasing goods and services.

The pool of those purchasing goods and services has shrunk, because the price of all goods continues to rise, yet the income of all but a few has either gone down, or remained stagnant for over 10 years.

So an ever increasing gap has opened between those that own the businesses, and their customer base.

With I believe the number last month was around 60% of the workers in this country making poverty wages, while the companies they work for make record profits, the purchase of goods and services will also continue to drop.

All the while these companies, concerned with only their margins, will continue to drop pay, cut benfits etc....

Leading to another round of reduced pay, benefits etc... in an attempt to maintain their margins.

Eventually there will be only one way to do so, either ship the last remaing good jobs overseas, or import cheaper workers from india etc...

This is all easily avoidable by companies paying decent wages to their workers, so that their customer base grows.

In a world where corporate profits are all that matters though, they have lost sight of the fact they are causing this all to happen. Or maybe they know exactly what they are doing, and simply dont care as long as they get their outrageous pay.

Either way, a company making hundreds of millions or billions, should be paying their staff alot more than minimum wage, that the .gov then has to prop up with tax dollars.

They are essentially stealing tax money, by not paying their workers enough to live.

You see I understand economics quite well, I had an A in highschool and college in the subject.

The ecomony cant only be based entirely on the business side, it will break down if only the business makes any money, and only the rich have money.

Economic growth comes not from holding massive amounts of money in a safe, it comes from money changing hands.

When there is less in the hands of the many, and most of it is grasped firmly in the hands of only a few, the economy will slump, and never get back up again.

All these giant corps can, and should be paying alot better, their workers are worth alot more, and the economy is suffering because of personal greed.

Either the "haves" will pay more as they should, or the economy will die, it is simple economics.

Originally posted by palmalBlue2
What constitutes a healthy wage??

The ability to live without hunger and being able to pay the bills for necessary services, being able to feed and clothe ones children. Not having to BEG for handouts to survive!

Originally posted by palmalBlue2
When should a company pay that to a person? Upon hire or after a probationary/ training period??

How about a probationary period so that the employee can decide whether the employer is a safe employer?

If workers were in very short supply people would remember that the employer NEEDS employee's without them he doesnt have a business!
I bet we'd soon see a change in employer attitude if that were the case, dont you?