Evolution Vs. God

AfterInfinity
"Who created God?" If you can't answer that question to the full and complete satisfaction of current scientific knowledge, then you have bigger things to be concerned about than debunking evolutionary theory.

One issue does not affect the other. You are not proving evolution by pointing the finger and saying, "Who made God". I will say that we are told God simply is. If there is another part to the story, then we might find out one day, but denying what we see with our eyes of complex systems, massive data in DNA, Fibonacci sequence, golden ratio, and historical accuracy of prophecy in the bible and archeological evidence is much more persuasive than cute drawings, movies, and stories of how you think we came from a single cell and are related to plants.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

One issue does not affect the other. You are not proving evolution by pointing the finger and saying, "Who made God".

Haha. I'm not trying to. Although the topic DOES say "Evolution Vs. God". My point here is that your premise is just as flawed as ours, if not more so. Doesn't the Bible say something about planks in eyes? Might be worth applying to this case. Our specks are nothing compared to your plank.

I will say that we are told God simply is.

Are you serious? Alright then, evolution simply is. Don't bull# with me, and that's exactly what you just did - you spit a line of bull#. I'm not having it, no one here is having it. Your double standard is showing again, and I'm tired of it.

If there is another part to the story, then we might find out one day

Same goes for evolution. Keep digging. I'll bring you a ladder when I get back from laughing myself unconscious.

but denying what we see with our eyes of complex systems, massive data in DNA, Fibonacci sequence, golden ratio, and historical accuracy of prophecy in the bible and archeological evidence is much more persuasive than cute drawings, movies, and stories of how you think we came from a single cell and are related to plants.

Don't. Just don't. You killed your case in one post, much better than I could have. I'll just leave this response for other creationists to see. A little warning that they should think really hard before challenging evolutionary theory.

AfterInfinity
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread967384/pg37#pid16941686]post by
Haha. I'm not trying to. Although the topic DOES say "Evolution Vs. God". My point here is that your premise is just as flawed as ours, if not more so. Doesn't the Bible say something about planks in eyes? Might be worth applying to this case. Our specks are nothing compared to your plank.

Seeing as you don't really seem to be much of student of the word, I will say that you just misapplied that verse. You see, the bible does say that God said, "I am that I am" and while it's interesting to argue that is not a good answer, I accept God's answer. Maybe there is more to it than "I am", but you know as well as I do that we are not going to go doing a background check on God anytime soon, and thus we will have to wait. I have pointed out the other things that back up what God has told us as evidence of His creating by design our world.

Macro evolution has not even been close to proving we came from a common ancestor or cell or how life began. I will also admit we cannot begin to fathom how God created the universe or life, and maybe that is part of the test of being here in the flesh.

I wonder, do you believe in anything paranormal? Have you ever experienced something that science cannot explain like dreaming the future, seeing a ghost, meeting someone and you turn around to ask another question and they are simply gone? There was nowhere for them to disappear to, and yet, they are gone. I had a friend who believed in fairies and elves etc.. She told me a story I can't explain other than it's supernatural. She was not bs'ing me. She had a problem of disappearing scissors. Yeh, right, I know, odd. So, she would buy them and had a whole drawer full of them. One day she needed to use them, and they were all gone. She got very mad, and said, "All right, that's it. I want my scissors back!" She got in her car, looked in her purse and 9 pair of scissors were in her purse!

Now, she could have made it all up, but I seriously doubt it. I have heard from friends who tell stories of odd beings appearing in their rooms at night, and quite a few of them looked like evil little gnomes. They terrified them, and made their childhood hell. They always slept with a nightlight on, and these were quite normal people working in professional jobs, but they swore they were tormented by these things. I can't prove it and I didn't think they were lying. I have heard the story or one similar many times as I like to talk about paranormal stuff due to my own experiences. How do you explain all those?

Sure it's a money making venture now with all the tv shows on ghosts etc and I think a lot of that is faked, but back then it was something people were embarrassed about and usually only opened up if I shared my story. I could see the relief on their faces when I was telling them my experiences and then they would share theirs. It was like, "Finally, someone who knows this stuff is real" would come over them. They would not feel they were crazy anymore. Funny, only a few of them still had odd experiences and most stopped after they got into their late teens.

You know that many are questioning the accepted evolution theory, and it is driving you all crazy. You are not the majority of the population anymore as more evidence of biblical truth comes out in archeology and ancient texts that show the OT was not altered. I look forward to hearing your reply, and maybe we can have a discussion and not make snide comments. I really do enjoy a good discussion.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Reformat that post please. The solid wall of italics hurts my eyes. I'm not responding until you do.

UnifiedSerenity
You know that many are questioning the accepted evolution theory, and it is driving you all crazy.

Not it isn't. It's meant to be questioned.

You are not the majority of the population anymore as more evidence of biblical truth comes out in archeology and ancient texts that show the OT was not altered.

It isn't a popularity contest.

I bet then when you apply your double standard to all that evidence of biblical truth, it just sparkles.

reply to post by daskakik


Actually, I love it when people post questions about the bible, and try to show it's errors. Some I have investigated and long disproved, but others do come up that make it interesting to look into, so no, I don't get bothered by them. I do dislike people cherry picking a verse though to make a point that really has nothing to do with that passage be they Christian or non-believer.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

What does that have to do with you saying we are being driven crazy by people who question the theory of evolution?

UnifiedSerenity

AfterInfinity
"Who created God?" If you can't answer that question to the full and complete satisfaction of current scientific knowledge, then you have bigger things to be concerned about than debunking evolutionary theory.

One issue does not affect the other. You are not proving evolution by pointing the finger and saying, "Who made God". I will say that we are told God simply is. If there is another part to the story, then we might find out one day, but denying what we see with our eyes of complex systems, massive data in DNA, Fibonacci sequence, golden ratio, and historical accuracy of prophecy in the bible and archeological evidence is much more persuasive than cute drawings, movies, and stories of how you think we came from a single cell and are related to plants.

Your funny you mean like your not proving god by trying to disprove evolution that coin flips both ways. So on one hand you see the paradox on the other your blind. See what blind faith does makes you contradict yourself. Now please try to prove something other then make broad statements about golden ratio etc. See you think god is involved but i say the universe has set rules established when it came in to being. The rules are bound by the laws of chemistry and physics and math. We didnt even any of these things they were all ready here. Isaac Newton didnt discover gravity he quantified it. In case you havnt noticed in nature everything becomes more complicated with time. Even more messy if you will with this complication becomes expanded possibilities. Thats why life evolves nothing in the universe stays in its simplest state. If it did stars wouldnt form and there would be nothing in the universe but hydrogen.

Even the universe becomes more complex as it ages so please tell me why you think complexity means god?

UnifiedSerenity
You know that many are questioning the accepted evolution theory, and it is driving you all crazy. You are not the majority of the population anymore as more evidence of biblical truth comes out in archeology and ancient texts that show the OT was not altered. I look forward to hearing your reply, and maybe we can have a discussion and not make snide comments. I really do enjoy a good discussion.

You got it all wrong right there.

US, science is based exactly on that - questioning everything. That is completely opposite from all religions, where you should and can't question anything, as everything is presented as 'ultimate' truth. In major religions there are verses that you are actually free to kill non-believers, and this was practiced by all of religions to some degree.

Now funny fact for you, evolution was questioned by many and stands the time and it is proven correct. Only people who are not believing this are those who are driven by religion instead of reason. Those who got doctorates in science, but still believe that earth is 6.5 thousands year old, that Bible is book written by God (even in fact all proof shows that is written by humans). This is more evident in USA, where religion is on its peek. But latest statistics show that religion is loosing its ground.

Younger generations are starting to question all teachings, and there is another factor - negativity with all abuses by those promoting the faith. This made many question their religion. Check your facts before you state otherwise, like you trying to do here.

Most religious groups in USA have lost ground

Poll shows atheism on the rise in the USA

And probably strangely to your belief, polls show that atheists and those who don't believe in God as pictured in Bible actually know much more about religion than religious people?!

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


What I am saying is just because you don't have a better answer doesn't mean there isn't one. I don't care what answer tickles your fancies, I take my conclusions from scientific investigation. And scientific investigation gives me more reason to believe in evolution than to believe in some kind of deity. Your arguments out of ignorance are getting very old.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You really don't have to insult others just because we disagree. The arguments for macro evolution are just as much based on faith as anything I believe, and there is no proof for animals changing kind. You choose to accept the hypothesis that is presented without the facts to back it up. It has never been observed and well it can't be because your argument says it takes millions of years. So, as Darwin put out the need to find proof in the fossil record. He really thought we would find creatures in between one kind and another, and we haven't found it.

reply to post by SuperFrog


I am not talking religion here when it comes to people not believing in macro evolution. Lots of people without any particular "faith" do not see the proof for species changing kind. Some lean towards an alien race kicking it all off. Some just say, "Something did it, but it's obviously designed", and some accept the biblical accounts or other religious beliefs like those who follow Koran.

So, if you want to just argue numbers, the atheists are far outnumbered by people of faith than non-faith.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

The arguments for macro evolution are just as much based on faith as anything I believe, and there is no proof for animals changing kind.

Why can't you accept that giving something the benefit of the doubt until a better explanation is found is not the same as religious faith?

Science would drop the current theory of evolution in a heartbeat if something better came along. Religious folk have been fighting tooth and nail to keep their world view for centuries. So, no, they are not the same and you are being intellectually dishonest if you continue to equate the two.

reply to post by daskakik


They are not presenting it as it really is, but as fact. They do not even want the information of ID presented showing how proteins are really made, the mathematics involved or how much data is necessary in DNA which points to a designer. No, they put up clever movies and pictures showing this hypothesis and then point to a few fossils that do not prove intermediate changes in kind to another.

That is the issue. Sure, share the hypothesis, but don't say it's a fact. Don't show them false images and say that it proves macro evolution. Most of the people I talk to have no idea that lucy's hands and feet were ape hands and feet. They don't know that Haekel's drawings are a fraud. I see what is happening in schools as pure indoctrination, and by the time they get out to think on their own, their minds are set towards evolution.

You all talk about the church indoctrinating people, well I see evolutionists the same way. They don't like to even be asked about the things I have brought up, and thus where is the right to question? You all talk the talk about inquiry, but you don't walk the walk.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

Nice rant and all but nothing more than that.

We have said over and over what it really is so you can't say that it isn't being presented as such.

The ID information would be accepted if it could be backed up. Your side wants it accepted without doing the leg work. That is all on you.

I can only point out how intellectually dishonest you are being if you continue to equate evo and religion.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by SuperFrog

 

I am not talking religion here when it comes to people not believing in macro evolution. Lots of people without any particular "faith" do not see the proof for species changing kind. Some lean towards an alien race kicking it all off. Some just say, "Something did it, but it's obviously designed", and some accept the biblical accounts or other religious beliefs like those who follow Koran.

So, if you want to just argue numbers, the atheists are far outnumbered by people of faith than non-faith.

Alot of people believe theirs an alien race here on earth trying to control us its called Scientology. Doesnt prove anything other then people are easily deceived.People believing something doesnt change the facts does it? So since evidence has been given showing evolution to you .So where is the scientific evidence disproving it any published papers i can reference? I all ways go where the facts lead me so show me evolution didnt occur you cant can you?

reply to post by dragonridr


I've already replied many times to this sort of question. Since the sciences have been taken over by the evolution cabal, demanding peer reviewed journals is a bit dubious and you know it. Many lose their jobs just for writing such a paper or thinking other than the accepted theory of evolution. There are some interesting ones, like the guy at the Smithsonian who lost his job despite being widely accepted as an expert.

The movie "expelled" shows just how controlling the cabal can be.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

I see what is happening in schools as pure indoctrination, and by the time they get out to think on their own, their minds are set towards evolution.

As opposed to telling them God did it and teaching them not to think at all?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


That is your take on it. You act as if being a Christian means you cannot be a scientist and yet some of our greatest discoveries have been by Christians. Some of those discoveries come right out of the bible, which is backed up by science.

Many archeologists have become Christians because of the accuracy of the bible, and yet to you it seems they are just idiots and not intelligent men and women of letters. That is a rather sad characterization of Christian scientists.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

That is your take on it. You act as if being a Christian means you cannot be a scientist and yet some of our greatest discoveries have been by Christians.

Kurt Wise is a geologist at Harvard. And he is a Christian. This is what he has to say:

"Although there are scientific reasons for accepting a young earth, I am a young age creationist because that is my understanding of the Scripture. As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turns against creationism, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a creationist because that is what the Word of God seems to indicate."