Evolution Vs. God

This recent short documentary is really upsetting the evolutionist community. I found it an excellent example of listening to the evolution believers as they try to explain evolution and that it's a belief system. Their cognitive dissonance is quite amazing to watch in progress. I can see why this is really upsetting the Darwinian fans.

Now they are demanding the cut pieces that the documentary is made from. They don't demand this sort of footage from other works, yet they are trying to imply the documentary is leaving out things that would prove their theory. The Blaze has an article up about this documentary and the controversy it has created. I will post that below the documentary.



The Blaze Article

Yes, please do show us the observable change in kind and since you cannot observe 60 million years ago, please show it happening today. Finches are still finches, fish are still fish, and bacteria are still bacteria.

I just got done watching this documentary. I liked it. As a Christian I feel very sympathetic to all the people who were interviewed. It's a hard thing to find out that what you think you believed as science was in fact merely fancy guess work at best which in itself takes an amount of faith to accept. This was my own story many years ago when I had trusted in the in-fallacy of science only to find myself struggling with unanswerable questions such as how did it all begin and why is there no evidence of one species changing into another that can be proven. Then there was the question why does it all hold together. Why doesn't chaos rule the day and thing instantly and continually change at random? Why is there perceivable order? And where does love and hate come from? And so many more things than this. Then when I put a Creator into the equation it all made perfect sense to me.

I can't watch the doc at work, however, it would be nice to see a completely unbiased documentary either way. Instead of making sure the labelling of either side remains.

The belittling of the beliefs, on either side, needs to stop before being able to prove or disprove anything for certain.
Especially in the eyes of someone like me, who is lost, confused on where to turn for answers. All I see is the reduction of civility in these debates. "Answers", provided by either side, that come with the words:

"

“Atheists are very, very angry because this isn’t just a wet blanket on their sinful lifestyle, it’s a Niagara Falls,” the evangelist charged. “There’s a God and there’s moral responsibility and moral absolutes.”

(from the article linked)
More name calling and chest puffing imo. And it comes from the other side, too...don't get me wrong. I've been watching these "debates" and videos for a few years now, as I search for answers. I will be watching this one too, but can we not work together, to find the answers? Or will we remain stubborn to everything, on both sides.

And just to point out where I'm coming from in my search:

I'm currently pulling for the science side, as it takes a bit more of a practical approach, IMO (so far) but was raised Catholic and have a belief in a possible higher intervention. What I have disguarded, completely, is "religion". I believe "religion" is too tainted by man. I have very little faith in man.

I've often heard that "We didn't crawl out of the ocean, grow legs and lungs to breath air, as there are still creatures in the ocean, why haven't they crawled out too? It's an impossible suggestion". I would reply that tadpoles do it, all the time. But that isn't really a belief, its just a rebuttle to the comment, regardless of the species. It happens.

So how do I find the answers? How does any of us? If science is tainted by "blind faith" as claimed by Comfort, in the article, how can we prove anything with science or religions blind faith?

See...confused.

reply to post by Fromabove


Thanks for sharing your thoughts and journey with me. You know, it is a simple fact in most science that order does not come from chaos but order can devolve into chaos, and our world is devolving from it's beautiful and perfect creation. Man is getting sicker and sicker, the world is literally falling apart and yet, so many think it's just mans fault.

I like the example that believing in evolution with its vast improbability is the same as believing a tornado could hit a massive junkyard and when it leaves an hour later a perfect able to fly 747 would be left in it's wake. Most pro-evolution people hate this example because it is exactly what they believe happened millions of years ago. How can you create something from nothing? How can you get life from non-life. And if we being so intelligent cannot create life, then how can it just happen by accident.

You cannot observe evolution from one kind to another and yet, they believe it on faith, and have such a hard time admitting it. Yet, they ridicule all who believe in the glorified creator God because it's not science which demands observable things that you can prove and since we cannot observe God in action creating then it's a fairytale, but isn't that exactly what the evolutionists are doing?

We can observe the incredible order in nature, the Fibonacci sequence and golden ratio. We can see the incredible order of the universe and our world and yet because we don't like rules we don't want to be held to any standard, we reject the idea of God who has rules and expectations resulting in our blessings and good for the world, we reject God to do as we please, and just look what has become of our world over these last 200 years!

I did not really plan to write all that, but it just came out. I hope many watch this and realize if they are a believer in evolution that it is simply based on faith and their choosing to believe it and reject any idea of a supreme and loving God.

reply to post by Demoncreeper


Thank you DC for your comments as well. I don't think it's name calling but observing the outcome of this documentary and I truly do hope you do watch it later. I am like you, a "recovering" Catholic. Well, I am not Catholic at all anymore, and I am a terrible Christian. I upset most in the "Christian" community because I have spent the last 25+ years studying the bible and other esoteric texts for myself, and I often upset bible believing Christians who have blind faith in what they are taught in Church.

I am not saying the bible is wrong, but it certainly has been used to control people and draw them into errant thinking by misapplication of the scriptures. I think if we truly will open our hearts and minds, study the text in it's original languages (not hard, just download e-sword for free) we can see where things have been used to fulfill a political agenda through religious pressures.

I will submit to you that this was done on purpose to both gain control of the world and now to drive confused people away from the bible and God by the very evil works done by these men through the Church and it was not in the will of God or Jesus at all.

My question to you is would you find it a sad shame had you been kidnapped as a young child by someone who hated your mom and dad, and then spent their entire life tearing them down in your eyes so that at some point you murdered them only to find out later that the real monster was the one who pretended to be your parent but who ultimately just wanted to ruin you and hurt your mom and dad?

In love for you and everyone seeking truth, I share this with you. God truly does love you, and I hope somehow your confusion is lifted.

Are we really going to have to put up with a Soapbox thread on creation from you EVERY week? The fact that the creationists are constantly pushing this on ATS tells me that they are just itching to push their belief system on everyone, just as good Christians are supposed to do....push and push and push. While it may be your god's will, I have my own will. I have a mind and logic of my own. Creation is rubbish....please quit starting a thread on the same dead horse every week when you need more S&F's or just feel that you need to spew the word of your god.

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by Demoncreeper

 

.

I will submit to you that this was done on purpose to both gain control of the world and now to drive confused people away from the bible and God by the very evil works done by these men through the Church and it was not in the will of God or Jesus at all.

My question to you is would you find it a sad shame had you been kidnapped as a young child by someone who hated your mom and dad, and then spent their entire life tearing them down in your eyes so that at some point you murdered them only to find out later that the real monster was the one who pretended to be your parent but who ultimately just wanted to ruin you and hurt your mom and dad?

In love for you and everyone seeking truth, I share this with you. God truly does love you, and I hope somehow your confusion is lifted.

Thank you, my confusion is no where close to lifted, though.

It would be a sad shame, in the scenario you proposed, but I don't approach my investigation in that way. I don't see it as one tearing down another. I approach it for what it is.

Science is looking for answers by studying, experimenting, attempting to conclude based on findings. (I also believe it can be as tainted and controlled by man, as religion, by the way).

Religions go to a book that is supposed to teach love and lesson, but people interpret it and use it unwisely, to control and kill people based on their non beliefs,(sometimes) inventing their own perception. Which becomes a religion, which is "absolute" in the eyes of the "flock".

Science does change its' view, when they can prove that they were wrong. Example: I grew up being told, water almost non existant, anywhere else in our solar system. Now, that is not the case. They didn't change to manipulate or control man. They changed because they "claim" to have discovered it, with their science tools. haha. All I'm saying is, that in my search, my eyes are open.

I appreciate your feedback very much.

reply to post by Vasa Croe

Are we really going to have to put up with a Soapbox thread on creation from you EVERY week?

No!

You don’t have to participate.

I have a mind and logic of my own. Creation is rubbish....

That’s simply your opinion. 84% of the world population has faith (1/3 are Christians). You’re in the minority, friend.

reply to post by seabag


most have faith and 1/3 are christian and yet look at the state of the world we live in........ it would seem that tiny minority of nonbelievers sure does have a lot of influence....... or maybe....... naaaah couldnt be
also interesting how the most populace and powerful religion (and most populace and powerful organized body) on the planet is constantly "under attack"
poor persecuted christians..... more political economic and religious power than any organized group the world has ever seen..... and still so persecuted and mistreated

reply to post by sirhumperdink

most have faith and 1/3 are christian and yet look at the state of the world we live in........ it would seem that tiny minority of nonbelievers sure does have a lot of influence....... or maybe....... naaaah couldnt be
also interesting how the most populace religion on the planet is constantly "under attack"

How does that have anything to do with the evolution fallacy?

Sounds like a red herring to me.

reply to post by seabag


no its not a red herring because it wasnt regarding evolution (i know better than to get into arguments like this) it was regarding your post which... oh no..... also did not pertain to the topic at hand
thanks for your reply "red herring" is my favorite

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Vasa Croe

 

Are we really going to have to put up with a Soapbox thread on creation from you EVERY week?

No!

You don’t have to participate.

I have a mind and logic of my own. Creation is rubbish....

That’s simply your opinion. 84% of the world population has faith (1/3 are Christians). You’re in the minority, friend.

Not according to any polls or data I have read. Looks like Creation is in the minority, even in most other widely accepted religions.....



Source

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
Are we really going to have to put up with a Soapbox thread on creation from you EVERY week? The fact that the creationists are constantly pushing this on ATS tells me that they are just itching to push their belief system on everyone, just as good Christians are supposed to do....push and push and push. While it may be your god's will, I have my own will. I have a mind and logic of my own. Creation is rubbish....please quit starting a thread on the same dead horse every week when you need more S&F's or just feel that you need to spew the word of your god.

I share things that I am passionate about, and the topic of Evolution vs. Creation is obviously one of them. If you hate this so much, then why do you even read them? It must just frost your wheaties so much that this sort of thing is being posted. I look at my thread as sort of my home. If you know you hate my views why would you enter it? I am not running into your home going nuts about your posts, and even if i do visit a thread you make, I don't belittle you for sharing your thoughts and making a thread. I have a choice to enter the topic or not.

I bet you are pro-choice. I suggest you start taking responsibilities for your choices and not blame me for exercising my right to share my views on a forum titled "Origins & Creation Conspiracy". I know lots of ATS members who avoid the Religion forum and this one.

reply to post by sirhumperdink

no its not a red herring because it wasnt regarding evolution (i know better than to get into arguments like this) it was regarding your post which... oh no..... also did not pertain to the topic at hand

He said creation is rubbish…my reply was on topic.

thanks for your reply "red herring" is my favorite

Anytime! I can always spot a hater!

reply to post by Vasa Croe


You quote wiki as a source? How is that different than you saying it?

How about actual research?

Christians make up about the same portion of the world’s population today (32%) as they did a century ago (35%).

Taken as a whole, Christians are still by far the world’s largest religious group. Muslims, the second-largest group, make up a little less than a quarter of the world’s population.

www.pewresearch.org...
That’s a lot of people who believe in creation.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Vasa Croe

 

You quote wiki as a source? How is that different than you saying it?

How about actual research?

Christians make up about the same portion of the world’s population today (32%) as they did a century ago (35%).

Taken as a whole, Christians are still by far the world’s largest religious group. Muslims, the second-largest group, make up a little less than a quarter of the world’s population.

www.pewresearch.org...
That’s a lot of people who believe in creation.

Well I guess since Pew Research shows up quite a few times referenced in the wiki I quoted then I should discount your "research" as well? There were 7 references to them in my source link. If you discount one I guess you discount all?

Another chart from my horrid wiki source....



My first chart even came from Pew Forum which is a Pew Research project...see that tiny source comment at the bottom of it...what does that say? Pew Forum.....

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by sirhumperdink

 

no its not a red herring because it wasnt regarding evolution (i know better than to get into arguments like this) it was regarding your post which... oh no..... also did not pertain to the topic at hand

He said creation is rubbish…my reply was on topic.

thanks for your reply "red herring" is my favorite

Anytime! I can always spot a hater!

edit on 28-8-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

no it wasnt you basically said well thats like youre opinion man
in no way did you question the legitimacy of his argument or make your own
what it came down to is "well we have more so nyananyanabooboo"
in my opinion that is off topic... it can most certainly be argued otherwise in that it related to the topic in a very roundabout way but it would be disingenuous to claim that you legitimately contributed to the topic

as for the topic at hand i think there should be some more restrictions on creating such topics (without having to put them in an off-topic or rant category)..... very rarely does the op of these kinds of threads provide any unique information or perspectives and the threads quickly devolve into quotes of scripture and name calling with no resolution..... day after day..... week after week..... and they all end the same way and it doesnt help that one side doesnt acknowledge they dont know everything and there is room for debate and the other side just sticks their fingers in their ears and goes "lalalalala" when they are presented with solid information that disagrees with previously held beliefs

and it reeeeaally doesnt help that people are using their beliefs and labels for those beliefs as some kind of anchor to reality and assurance of their own existence

reply to post by sirhumperdink


So typical, you don't like the information so try to discredit me. You want to shut me up when this is a forum to share information. I am active in all my threads, and you just don't like what I share. I do not just post a video or cut and paste, but expound upon what I see within them.

You act as though only your viewpoint should be allowed on ATS. I am glad that is not apparently ATS policy. Again, since you don't like me, why bother to click on my threads? The choice is yours, and it seems your just want to try to derail the topic and turn it around to be about me. Please stop now. You have had your say. I bet you didn't even watch the video. You just saw this thread and spewed your hatred of creationists.

I watched yours and raise you this.

Originally posted by sirhumperdink

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by sirhumperdink

 

no its not a red herring because it wasnt regarding evolution (i know better than to get into arguments like this) it was regarding your post which... oh no..... also did not pertain to the topic at hand

He said creation is rubbish…my reply was on topic.

thanks for your reply "red herring" is my favorite

Anytime! I can always spot a hater!



as for the topic at hand i think there should be some more restrictions on creating such topics (without having to put them in an off-topic or rant category)..... very rarely does the op of these kinds of threads provide any unique information or perspectives and the threads quickly devolve into quotes of scripture and name calling with no resolution..... day after day..... week after week..... and they all end the same way and it doesnt help that one side doesnt acknowledge they dont know everything and there is room for debate and the other side just sticks their fingers in their ears and goes "lalalalala" when they are presented with solid information that disagrees with previously held beliefs

That would be because there is no unique information or perspectives on this topic...it has all been regurgitated with no further study and can't be studied because it is based on a book that was written and is taken on faith. This topic goes over about as well as the Creation Museum has....consistently losing interest and believers year after year because there can be no updates or research done. The only thing they can do is wait for the next thing to be found supporting evolution and try to discredit it with bible verses.