A Question About Crop Circles

reply to post by The GUT

Because Doug & Dave invented a "sport" that inspired a nation? A nation with a lot of fairly isolated fields. One where, unlike the fields here, there aren't as many redneck gun owners in close proximity? A nation wired-up on tea and a good sense of humor?

Think you hit the nail on the head The Gut there in the UK we are nothing if not a nation of pranksters who like to have a laugh at someone else's expense.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by The GUT

 

Because Doug & Dave invented a "sport" that inspired a nation? A nation with a lot of fairly isolated fields. One where, unlike the fields here, there aren't as many redneck gun owners in close proximity? A nation wired-up on tea and a good sense of humor?

Think you hit the nail on the head The Gut there in the UK we are nothing if not a nation of pranksters who like to have a laugh at someone else's expense.

Except...Doug and Dave didn't invent it. ...it's been noted that it strained credibility to think that the pair had created all the hundreds of circles that had been found in the past decade, and they certainly could not have been responsible for the circles outside of England. Thus they lied. so....

The media then hyped Doug and Dave's revelation, and as a consequence many dismissed the entire phenomenon of crop circles as their work. A little too easily and not answering any of the relevant questions. Many crop circle skeptics have questioned Doug and Dave's confession. What evidence was there to support their claim of having created hundreds of circles throughout the 80s? Were they themselves just publicity seekers? Didn't I say above that they weren't mathematically or geometrically competent enough to create most of those circles? Doug and Dave bring up more questions than they answer. Just sayin...

reply to post by amazing

Except...Doug and Dave didn't invent it. ...it's been noted that it strained credibility to think that the pair had created all the hundreds of circles that had been found in the past decade, and they certainly could not have been responsible for the circles outside of England. Thus they lied. so..

I dont think Doug and Dave claimed to have made any circle in the last decade or outside of england. They stopped making them over 20 years ago. Or am i misunderstanding what you said?

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by amazing

 

Except...Doug and Dave didn't invent it. ...it's been noted that it strained credibility to think that the pair had created all the hundreds of circles that had been found in the past decade, and they certainly could not have been responsible for the circles outside of England. Thus they lied. so..

I dont think Doug and Dave claimed to have made any circle in the last decade or outside of england. They stopped making them over 20 years ago. Or am i misunderstanding what you said?

Sorry what I meant to say was, that Doug and Dave claimed to have invented making modern crop circles and to have made a couple of hundred of them. This isn't believable. No way did they create all the circles they said they did.

reply to post by The GUT


lol , just had to add this very old picture of a pagan dance



And they didnt even know Doug and Dave ..what could their motive have been? lol

Sorry for the blurring guys..rules is rules

reply to post by PhoenixOD


Now, that's a crop circle!

reply to post by amazing


Ill admit it they did claim to have made a lot. They said they made 200 from some time in the 70's till the start of the 90's. I get the feeling that they just wanted to be recognized for starting the trend by the time they got to old to carry it on. By then there were so many other people doing it as well and other people claiming it was aliens etc.

But saying that a lot of their circles were way , way less complex than what we see today. So 200 in maybe 20-ish years? Maybe not that many but its not impossible to be close that figure.

I get the feeling they just liked being in the fields together at night

Originally posted by amazing
Doug and Dave bring up more questions than they answer. Just sayin...

I also noted, above, that I didn't think Dave & Doug were the final answer. However, as far as good questions go...what in your obviously-more-learned-than-mine opinion are they?

Are you familiar with the various human circle makers at work today? Are you aware that the complexity of the circles are a modern concurrence and are quite concatenate with the increasing experience of the modern, human, circle makers?

Crude circles in fields from centuries past? Okay. What of 'em? They were not only fairly crude, but rare at that. Certainly no real suggestion in the antique reports that they were so anomalous as to suggest messages from the another world or dimension. And speaking of "messages" what message could a crude circle(s) even suggest?

You want answers? Lots of suggestions from folks here. You got answers? Let's hear 'em. No offense for realz. Just I'm trying to make sense of the counter-arguments.

reply to post by The GUT

Certainly no real suggestion in the antique reports that they were so anomalous as to suggest messages from the another world or dimension. And speaking of "messages" what message could a crude circle(s) even suggest?

oldcropcircles.weebly.com...

The Mowing Devil. (I saved the best for last )
And now I will sit back and watch you guys back-track and pat yourselves on the back.

Numerous pre Doug and Dave examples have been given now. Doug and Dave didn't invent squat. In fact, they weren't even the first to claim responsibility. Yet we keep coming back to this topic. It defies logic.

Originally posted by JayinAR
The Mowing Devil. (I saved the best for last

)
And now I will sit back and watch you guys back-track and pat yourselves on the back.

Sigh. That's your best? That ain't your best. I've seen you LOTS better than this, ahem.

Who was this unidentified & "inquisitive" farmer? Did you read the part about the "embellishments" added by the more recent printer. What about the flames? Wouldn't they burn the crops? You are familiar with the "iffiness" and pedigree of such populist pieces, right? I mean you have read enough to understand the genre? If not, amigo, then your higher-education starts today.

You have strong medicine, grasshopper...it just needs a little more time in the beaker.

This artifact was subsequently reproduced in 1898, in a piece by Lewis Evans called Witchcraft In Hertfordshire, which featured in the book Bygone Hertfordshire edited by William Andrews. (It was later also included in one of a series of pamphlets by the East Herts Archaeological Society, subsequently issued as a book entitled Hertfordshire Folklore by William Blyth Gerish.)

In the Lewis Evans piece, the author presents the original woodcut, and recounts the accompanying story in more modern prose, with his own embellishments. Some of these extrapolations appear to have been deduced from the drawing itself, and it is particularly interesting to see how he interpreted the imagery without the lens of knowledge of the crop circle phenomenon. Evans comments as follows:

The inquisitive farmer no sooner arrived at the place where his oats grew, but to his admiration he found the crop was cut down ready to his hands, and as if the Devil had a mind to shew his dexterity in the art of husbandry, and scorned to mow them after the usual manner, he cut them in round circles, and placed every straw with that exactness that it would have taken up above an age for any man to perform what he did in that one night.

So Evans seems to have taken the image as a depiction of "round circles", with the crop stems "placed" with "exactness" on the ground. This is to all intents and purposes, the description of a classic crop circle formation.

Of course it is impossible to make any conclusive statement about the account, open as it is to interpretation. Objections have been raised to the crop circle reading, on two bases: 1. that there is detail of flames, and that the illustration may depict fire around the central image; and 2. that the oats are described as having been cut rather than flattened.

reply to post by JayinAR

The Mowing Devil.

Here is the story of the mowing Devil that goes with the wood cut , I think it's more of an allegory than a true to life report .

THE MOWING-DEVIL: OR, STRANGE NEWS OUT OF HARTFORD-SHIRE Being a True Relation of a Farmer, who Bargaining with a Poor Mower, about the Cutting down Three Half Acres of Oats: upon the Mower's asking too much, the Farmer swore That the Devil should Mow it rather than He. And so it fell out, that very Night, the Crop of Oat shew'd as if it had been all of a Flame: but next Morning appear'd so neatly mow'd by the Devil or some Infernal Spirit, that no Mortal Man was able to do the like. Also, How the said Oats ly now in the Field, and the Owner has not Power to fetch them away
Full story

reply to post by JayinAR


a 450 year old folk tale of yore.

It sounds to me more like a cautionary tale put out by the church to warn against people not going to church or believing in god. Strange stories surrounding 'the devil' and witchcraft were commonplace in merry olde England back then.

reply to post by PhoenixOD


Yes, a "folk tale" that happens to reoccur every year in the same location.


I think this is what you call "cutting off your nose to spite your face"...or something like that.

reply to post by JayinAR


Whats the address of the field that magically cuts itself every year? It doesnt mention it in the pamphlet.

Originally posted by JayinAR
Yes, a "folk tale" that happens to reoccur every year in the same location.

I think this is what you call "cutting off your nose to spite your face"...or something like that.

"The Devil, or, the 'Poor Devil' as his rather snobbish artist compadres called him, couldn't manage much more than the simple circle.

The ridicule of his more talented art school mates rankled. 'I'll show them!' vowed the ol' debil. So he went underground for years perfecting his art. Centuries later he once again emerged, scythe in hand, and created a masterpiece. 'Behold my "Gray" you human losers Doug & Dave!' he cried with passion and long-endured angst.

From that point on, no one could deny the field-mastery of the world's greatest wheat artist. Soon, negotiations began to "show" his work in North America. Coming soon to a field-gallery near you."

reply to post by PhoenixOD


I don't think the field was cut.
Consider the story. It says it was "cut" in such a manner that the farmer couldn't retrieve it. Meaning it APPEARED cut, but was still rooted. In other words, laid down...

Deny all you want, it matches pretty clearly with the modern phenomena.

ETA: also, the relief states the field shone AS IF ablaze. Not that it was on fire.
This will not be the first time lights are reported alongside CC formations...

reply to post by JayinAR

It says it was "cut" in such a manner that the farmer couldn't retrieve it.

The story says the farmer was to afraid to retrieve it .

And the man that owns them is as yet afraid to remove them.

reply to post by gortex


Really?
That is at odds with your last post.

From your own post regarding the "actual story" (doesn't have the power):

Also, How the said Oats ly now in the Field, and the Owner has not Power to fetch them away Full story

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by PhoenixOD

 

I don't think the field was cut.
Consider the story. It says it was "cut" in such a manner that the farmer couldn't retrieve it. Meaning it APPEARED cut, but was still rooted. In other words, laid down...

Deny all you want, it matches pretty clearly with the modern phenomena.

Being a True Relation of a Farmer, who Bargaining with a Poor Mower, about the Cutting down Three Half Acres of Oats; upon the Mower's asking too much, the Farmer swore That the Devil should Mow it rather than He: And so it fell out, that very Night, the Crop of Oats shew'd as if it had been all of a flame; but next Morning appear'd so neatly Mow'd by the Devil, or some Infernal Spirit, that no Mortal Man was able to do the like.

It quite clearly saws mowed, last i checked mowed means cut. Plus the entire premise of the tale was that he didnt want to pay have the oats 'cut' down and in the morning they were perfectly cut down.

I dont see a single thing that ties this to the modern phenomena (Doug and Dave style pranking) like you claim other than there were Oats in the story.

reply to post by JayinAR


Perhaps you should check the link I posted rather than the quote which is a summary of the full story,