Four things I can't get past, and neither should you

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by jiggerj
The acts caused by religion are not natural and can be done away with if humans came to the conclusion that there are no gods.

Mankind does bad things regardless of gods. Gods are simply an easy scapegoat.

edit on 10-8-2013 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)

Oh I quite agree. Getting rid of gods would be one less scapegoat.

Getting rid of God/Gods on earth would necessitate the genocide of over 6 billion people (as we are itself) Is it worth it? OR God commits mass-suicide by way of a well planned koolaid/twinkie massacre (would make CNN/Fox News (BREAKING NOW) for sure. Oh, you were thinking of the fake gods of the past never ever quantified, realized, proven or allowed to be photographed?

jigger, hi,

I've shared already to help your disbelief, to get past one thing on your list. A woman without pupils, was given eyesight through the intercession of Padre Pio.

Here she is...

www.youtube.com...

The thread title reminds me of the four last things: Death, Judgment, Heaven or Hell.


love,

colbe

Originally posted by jiggerj

1. No miracle has ever caused a lost limb to grow back.

Of course not, you'd just call it some kind natural regeneration
mutation, hocus pocos with no focus, that happens on it's own B.S.

2. Claiming that the universe is proof of a god is the same as claiming that a forest fire is proof of an arsonist. The universe in not proof.

And expecting an atheist to find God is like asking a theif to go find a cop.

3. The ten commandments are nothing more than common sense laws (Well, except for the ones that are self serving to a god) laws that were already in place in Egypt and China.

II see humans lacking repect and common sense. You can see it in the threads they write.

4. After 6,000 years of worshiping a desert god this world is in worse shape than if a god had never been invented.

Who's fault is that ?

Please don't attempt to offer other things, like saying, Yeah, but Jesus died on the cross for our sins. If you can't address the four points posted then you'll just derail this thread.

You call this a thread Telling people what they shouldn't be able to " get passed " according to you ?
Excuse me while I pass gas and LMAO. I never heard anything so pompous and arrogant in my whole life.

Spell check

reply to post by randyvs

Its really pointless to argue with atheists about these sorts of things.

Most psychologists have identified atheists with having daddy issues or as Freud would call it Oedipus complexes in which they have successfully killed off their fathers in order to wed their mother.

I kid you not. Though there are exceptions to the rule, the large majority of converts to atheism trend in the direction of daddy issues. The stats differ for those raised in a household of atheism.

What is the point of this?

Essentially they have raised themselves up as the authority figure on all matters like the head of the household in the dark ages. If any interpretation goes against what they WANT to be truth then it is labeled superstitious illogical bulls#$^.

Conclusion . . . . don't bother yourself amigo!

-FBB

PS EDIT
Here is some light reading on the subject;
Atheists: A Psychological Profile
triablogue.blogspot.com...

Here's a brief excerpt from Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi's chapter "Atheists: A Psychological Profile" in The Cambridge Companion to Atheism:

Who Are They? Demographics

In representative surveys of the U.S. population in the 1970s and 1980s, the unaffiliated were found to be younger, mostly male, with higher levels of education and income, more liberal, but also more unhappy and more alienated in terms of the larger society (Hadaway and Roof 1988; Feigelman, Gorman, and Varacalli 1992). According to 2004 Gallup data, based on 12,043 interviews, the 9 percent of Americans who say they do not identify with any religion whatsoever or who explicitly say they are atheist or agnostic tended to be politically liberal, Democrats, independents, younger, living in the West, students, and those who are living with someone without being married (Newport 2004).

In Australia, secularists are much better educated than the rest of the population, socially liberal, independent, self-assertive, and cosmopolitan. In Canada, census data and national surveys show that those reporting “no religion” are younger, more male than female, more urban than rural, as well as upwardly mobile (Beit-Hallahmi and Argyle 1997).

Being an atheist overwhelmingly means being male. Data from all cultures show women to be more religious than men (Beit-Hallahmi 2005b). Recent polling data from the United States show that the statement “there is a god” was endorsed by 72.5 percent of men and 86.8 percent of women. The statement “I don’t believe in any of these” was endorsed by 7.0 percent of men and only 1.3 percent of the women (Rice 2003).

There are volumes of literature on this subject and some happen to be rather fascinating.

Enjoy


EDIT
The above excerpt is taken from this book;
The Cambridge Companion to Atheism (Cambridge Companions to Philosophy)
Michael Martin
www.amazon.com...

In this 2007 volume, eighteen of the world's leading scholars present original essays on various aspects of atheism: its history, both ancient and modern, defense and implications. The topic is examined in terms of its implications for a wide range of disciplines including philosophy, religion, feminism, postmodernism, sociology and psychology. In its defense, both classical and contemporary theistic arguments are criticized, and, the argument from evil, and impossibility arguments, along with a non religious basis for morality are defended. These essays give a broad understanding of atheism and a lucid introduction to this controversial topic.

Originally posted by GodIsRelative
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Have you never heard of symbolism?

A God may have sent a plague to punish mankind. You can't know that It didn't. Whether he did this by miraculous sickness or a virus carried by a flea is irrelevant. The how has nothing to do with the why. Even with a scientific explanation for these events, there is always the question of if it is random, or if there is indeed some purpose for the universe's existence in the first place. You can't say that just because people didn't understand how these things worked that their inference of a reason is wrong. It's poor logic.

Wow.

jacygirl,

re: "You either choose to believe...or you choose not to believe".


Are you suggesting that a person has the ability to consciously choose to believe things?

Originally posted by colbe
jigger, hi, I've shared already to help your disbelief, to get past one thing on your list. A woman without pupils, was given eyesight through the intercession of Padre Pio.

Here she is...
www.youtube.com...
The thread title reminds me of the four last things: Death, Judgment, Heaven or Hell.

Colbe, you are always SO POSITIVE, its REFRESHING and rejuvenating; its a good thing she only had two eyes because a third may have been a problem.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by colbe
jigger, hi, I've shared already to help your disbelief, to get past one thing on your list. A woman without pupils, was given eyesight through the intercession of Padre Pio.

Here she is...
www.youtube.com...
The thread title reminds me of the four last things: Death, Judgment, Heaven or Hell.

Colbe, you are always SO POSITIVE, its REFRESHING and rejuvenating; its a good thing she only had two eyes because a third may have been a problem.

edit on 12-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

I included my initial post, so you can click on the link to watch the Youtube above.

Thanks VHB and I laughed at your comment about the 3rd eye. God does one better, the dear lady doesn't "grow" pupils to see, she can see without them! Wow.

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by colbe
jigger, hi, I've shared already to help your disbelief, to get past one thing on your list. A woman without pupils, was given eyesight through the intercession of Padre Pio.

Here she is...
www.youtube.com...
The thread title reminds me of the four last things: Death, Judgment, Heaven or Hell.

Colbe, you are always SO POSITIVE, its REFRESHING and rejuvenating; its a good thing she only had two eyes because a third would have been a problem.

I included my initial post, so you can click on the link to watch the Youtube above.

Thanks VHB and I laughed at your comment about the 3rd eye. God does one better, the dear lady doesn't "grow" pupils to see, she can see without them! Wow.

So,the third eye is in charge all along; never needed the occulars in the first place (smiles).

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by GodIsRelative
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Have you never heard of symbolism?

A God may have sent a plague to punish mankind. You can't know that It didn't. Whether he did this by miraculous sickness or a virus carried by a flea is irrelevant. The how has nothing to do with the why. Even with a scientific explanation for these events, there is always the question of if it is random, or if there is indeed some purpose for the universe's existence in the first place. You can't say that just because people didn't understand how these things worked that their inference of a reason is wrong. It's poor logic.

Wow.

Wow indeed JiggerJ; Why would an all inclusive God send a plague to punish its own creations ITSELF unless it was a merciless sadist/masochist. AfterInfinity started a thread called something like this (gods) Love VS Tyranny. Basically WHOS IN CHARGE HERE and how to determine the difference of being under an LOVING overlord vs an oppressive TYRANT. If God Is Relative (OH SO MANY THOUGHTS HERE) you can create, destroy, help or PAY NO ATTENTION to YOURSELF AS GOD or your creations as chance beings struggling it out here on a breached ship 5 miles from landfall (unbeknownst to you) occupied by cannibals; in shark infested waters with no oars or life boats available.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by GodIsRelative
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Have you never heard of symbolism?

A God may have sent a plague to punish mankind. You can't know that It didn't. Whether he did this by miraculous sickness or a virus carried by a flea is irrelevant. The how has nothing to do with the why. Even with a scientific explanation for these events, there is always the question of if it is random, or if there is indeed some purpose for the universe's existence in the first place. You can't say that just because people didn't understand how these things worked that their inference of a reason is wrong. It's poor logic.

Wow.

Wow indeed JiggerJ; Why would an all inclusive God send a plague to punish its own creations ITSELF unless it was a merciless sadist/masochist. AfterInfinity started a thread called something like this God VS Tyranny. Basically WHOS IN CHARGE HERE and how to determine the difference of being under an LOVING overlord vs an oppressive TYRANT.

There is never any mention of an all inclusive God . . . .

Please get your facts straight here. God sent the punishment for persecuting its worshipers. According to the Bible story mankind was exiled from heaven for being disobedient and pursuing to become gods themselves. The whole point is to get mankind to recognize that they cannot rule as God, ie they are not suited to the job. One only has to look at all the blood and horror mankind inflicts on itself and its surroundings to recognize the validity of that point.

Your claim of creating people to torture them fails to address the issue of free will. If mankind could not disobey its creator then one cannot participate in creation due to the necessity of conscious action which relies on a degree of autonomy.

-FBB

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
There is never any mention of an all inclusive God . . . . Please get your facts straight here. God sent the punishment for persecuting its worshipers. According to the Bible story mankind was exiled from heaven for being disobedient and pursuing to become gods themselves. The whole point is to get mankind to recognize that they cannot rule as God, ie they are not suited to the job. One only has to look at all the blood and horror mankind inflicts on itself and its surroundings to recognize the validity of that point.

Your claim of creating people to torture them fails to address the issue of free will. If mankind could not disobey its creator then one cannot participate in creation due to the necessity of conscious action which relies on a degree of autonomy.

WOW WOW. I do not like your God. It had no part in creating me as I know who my creator is and would not encourage this type of ideaform develop in the human as is negative and self defeating (not to mention rude). Mankind created God in an effort to explain itself, its existance; or God created man to explain itself to itself in a material/gross matter environment. Mankind cannot rule as God? Wait a minute; God cannot rule as an invisable force//tyrant and be BELIEVED to be authentic or true. We are afterall living the 3rd dimension, not the spiritual world. I said nothing about torture, god as autonomous NO. I said God feeds on the emotions of humans is all; its a delicasy, food source/energy. Its a VAMPIRE.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


Isn't it possible that the whole allegory was intended to be a reminder that there is more to being God than just having the free will to choose to be one? All the evils of this world could just as easily be a sign that we have more to learn as it is a sign that we're inept.

After all, Jesus said the servant should be as his master.

Originally posted by GodIsRelative
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

Isn't it possible that the whole allegory was intended to be a reminder that there is more to being God than just having the free will to choose to be one? All the evils of this world could just as easily be a sign that we have more to learn as it is a sign that we're inept.

After all, Jesus said the servant should be as his master.

In order to keep the servant from potencially poisening its master would be my interpretation (and it was so easy as in a trusted position). Evils of the world would speak to our ineptitude; freewill?? we have the ability to chose our exact moment of physical death of so taken into an action. Incredible but true, we are the only species that has that ability (dolphins beaching themselves not withstanding).

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
There is never any mention of an all inclusive God . . . . Please get your facts straight here. God sent the punishment for persecuting its worshipers. According to the Bible story mankind was exiled from heaven for being disobedient and pursuing to become gods themselves. The whole point is to get mankind to recognize that they cannot rule as God, ie they are not suited to the job. One only has to look at all the blood and horror mankind inflicts on itself and its surroundings to recognize the validity of that point.

Your claim of creating people to torture them fails to address the issue of free will. If mankind could not disobey its creator then one cannot participate in creation due to the necessity of conscious action which relies on a degree of autonomy.

WOW WOW. I do not like your God. It had no part in creating me as I know who my creator is and would not encourage this type of ideaform develop in the human as is negative and self defeating (not to mention rude). Mankind created God in an effort to explain itself, its existance; or God created man to explain itself to itself in a material/gross matter environment. Mankind cannot rule as God? Wait a minute; God cannot rule as an invisable force//tyrant and be BELIEVED to be authentic or true. We are afterall living the 3rd dimension, not the spiritual world. I said nothing about torture, god as autonomous NO. I said God feeds on the emotions of humans is all; its a delicasy, food source/energy. Its a VAMPIRE.

edit on 15-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

First of all torture is implied when you claim God is sadistic/masochistic in that it involves intentionally causing pain or agony.

I am having a very difficult time following your response could you please rephrase it more coherently?

-FBB

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Please get your facts straight here. God sent the punishment...

Pleaswe get your rational mind straight here. No god sent anything to anyone at any time.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
First of all torture is implied when you claim God is sadistic/masochistic in that it involves intentionally causing pain or agony.I am having a very difficult time following your response could you please rephrase it more coherently?-FBB

What else would you call life on earth for some MOST third world human beings? A walk in the park, a cherished moment..you called it but did not name it, I WILL AND ITS observed as GROSS NEGLECT of the parent to provide adequate provisioning for a (substandard THINKING specie). What was the point, tough Love? Worms have an easier time here, provided Robins are not stalking the backyard garden.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
First of all torture is implied when you claim God is sadistic/masochistic in that it involves intentionally causing pain or agony.I am having a very difficult time following your response could you please rephrase it more coherently?-FBB

What else would you call life on earth for some MOST third world human beings? A walk in the park, a cherished moment..you called it but did not name it, I WILL AND ITS observed as GROSS NEGLECT of the parent to provide adequate provisioning for a (substandard THINKING specie). What was the point, tough Love? Worms have an easier time here, provided Robins are not stalking the backyard garden.

Have you even read the Bible, or my post for that matter?

This world that we live in today, Bibilically, is NOT heaven or what was intended for mankind. Mankind was cast out for not following the rules which allowed heaven to be such a great place. The Bible story tells of mankind wanting to become gods and rule over their creation.

Earth with all its suffering is humanities creation.

The Bible with its New Testament (ie new contract with God) offers redemption and reentry to heaven by believing in God and following the two most important commandments as given by Jesus; love they God and love they neighbor.

If people followed this law the world would be a much better place.

You are confusing the actions of mankind with the will of God.

I am not trying to convert you or anything, but rather setting the record straight on what was stated in the religious text of the Bible.

-FBB

PS
I am sorry to hear you are struggling with your experiences in this world.

FriedBabeBroccoli,

re: " ...and reentry to heaven by believing in God..."

The problem is that folks do not have the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe things.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
Originally posted by vethumanbeing

FBB
First of all torture is implied when you claim God is sadistic/masochistic in that it involves intentionally causing pain or agony.I am having a very difficult time following your response could you please rephrase it more coherently?-FBB

[veteranhumanbeing
What else would you call life on earth for some MOST third world human beings? A walk in the park, a cherished moment..you called it but did not name it, I WILL AND ITS observed as GROSS NEGLECT of the parent to provide adequate provisioning for a (substandard THINKING specie). What was the point, tough Love? Worms have an easier time here, provided Robins are not stalking the backyard garden.

FBB
Have you even read the Bible, or my post for that matter?
This world that we live in today, Bibilically, is NOT heaven or what was intended for mankind. Mankind was cast out for not following the rules which allowed heaven to be such a great place. The Bible story tells of mankind wanting to become gods and rule over their creation.

What does having read the Bible have anything to do with reading your post; is that a requirement, you realize the many pages and concepts presented (ancient wisdom) to wade through before being allowed to open one of your post replies/implies? What is wrong with wanting to become gods and rule ourselves; how do you not know that may HAVE BEEN THE POINT all along. The Bible does not tell all as it really is (you are being dupted).

FBB
Earth with all its suffering is humanities creation.
The Bible with its New Testament (ie new contract with God) offers redemption and reentry to heaven by believing in God and following the two most important commandments as given by Jesus; love they God and love they neighbor.If people followed this law the world would be a much better place.

Humans are causing the Earth to hurt (probably, havent spoken to it recently). This new contract with God is intriguing, how does it read? Redemption is allowed only if a belief in a god source is evident within your being, what if I am of the belief (hate that word) that I am already one with GOD IAM, do I have to go back to some idea school humans set up to relearn falsity, when I already know my truth?

FBB
You are confusing the actions of mankind with the will of God.
I am not trying to convert you or anything, but rather setting the record straight on what was stated in the religious text of the Bible.PS
I am sorry to hear you are struggling with your experiences in this world.

No, the actions of mankind in YOUR WORLD necessitate GODS WRATH (and it looks very ugly from my viewpoint). Convert ME into what style of outragious thinking? Im not struggling with any experiences in this world as I LIVE ABOVE IT/WITHIN IT and am all too involved in correcting this debacle. Thanks for the Pity, as its wasted upon me, as I am only a name on a website that does not occupy your physical REALITY.