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Four things I can't get past, and neither should you

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posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj



But on the converse, wouldn't getting rid of atheism get rid of Stalin and Mao and other atheistic murderers who are not lunatics? (And by lunatics I mean certifiably insane. Being a mass murderer does not make one insane.) If you think about it, (organized/large scale) atheism hasn't had as long of a record as religion; I don't see it's record thus far as being particularly impressive.
reply to post by StalkerSolent
 


Sadly, this is natural. We can't get away from tyranny, domination, oppression. and have to deal with it all the time. The acts caused by religion are not natural and can be done away with if humans came to the conclusion that there are no gods.



So essentially when atheists do things in the name of man, it is natural human depravity, but when religious people do things in the name of God, it's unnatural?
Double standard. Religion has been used as a lever throughout history to manipulate people, but when it is replaced, something else comes in to fill the void.
And as an aside, what makes you so certain religion is unnatural?




posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli

Originally posted by jiggerj

4. After 6,000 years of worshiping a desert god this world is in worse shape than if a god had never been invented.

Please don't attempt to offer other things, like saying, Yeah, but Jesus died on the cross for our sins. If you can't address the four points posted then you'll just derail this thread.


That is quite a big claim without any supporting evidence . . .

It would have been more logical to have provided peer reviewed research to support your bold opinion.



You sure make a LOT of these threads and from what I gather you have no actual experience in the technical or scientific professional world while attempting to push your ideology of science.

You likely are experiencing feelings of insecurity because you do not understand the concept and can not accept its existence as a result.

You should really seek help.

-FBB


I'll go easy on you because your arrogance suggests you are very young. First, attack a topic, not the member.

Secondly, let's say only two bad events of equal tragedy have occurred throughout all of human history.
1. One atheist lunatic sets off a bomb killing three thousand. Why? Because he's a lunatic.
2. Two Muslims fly planes into the Twin Towers, killing three thousand. Why, because they believe that Allah will reward them in heaven.

Now, if Allah had never been invented the terrorists would not have committed this heinous act. This makes the world fifty percent better without this god.

Now, if we take away all the gods, then we're talking about no Christian Crusades, no Muslim Crusades, no Spanish inquisition, the Middle East would be a hell of lot better off today.

We can't stop lunatics, but we can certainly do without gods.


That was "going easy" . . . . .

Bwahahahahaahahahaha


So you have no peer reviewed research to back up your OPINIONS . . . . just hot air . . . .

Yeah buddy, the world would be a lot better without the Khmer, the cultural revolution, the USSR because religion caused those things to occur right? . . . .

In your twisted mind you probably will blame those incidents on religion because religious people . . . meh I don't really care.

You try and use science and logic as your shield and sword in your crusade against religion and yet you consistently demonstrate you lack both.

Start producing real scientific studies and someone might actually take you serious, until then I will just mock you on occasion and laugh at your posts.



As for your comment on me being very young, you are right and all I have to say to that is,
"Jigga' what?"



posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 10:38 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 12:09 AM
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"1. No miracle has ever caused a lost limb to grow back."

I didn't realize that you were all-knowing. You are doing the same thing you claim to be against, in assuming things. Why do you feel the need to criticize those who "assume" that Christ is real?

"2. Claiming that the universe is proof of a god is the same as claiming that a forest fire is proof of an arsonist. The universe in not proof. "

It all depends on how you look at things. God can be proven strictly by utilizing logic, but of course, it depends on what is taken as a given. The simple fact is that the universe very well could mean that God exists. Saying that it doesn't simply shows your ignorance, and your assumptions, just like I stated previously.

"3. The ten commandments are nothing more than common sense laws (Well, except for the ones that are self serving to a god) laws that were already in place in Egypt and China. "

So. What bearing does that have on whether they were told to the ancient Israelites by God? Again, you don't know whether that occurred or not. You can assume all you want, but that changes absolutely nothing.

"4. After 6,000 years of worshiping a desert god this world is in worse shape than if a god had never been invented. "

This is simply just not true. Without the Christian religion alone, the world would be a much WORSE place. Many of the moral ideals that we have today stem directly from Christian doctrine and thought. If you live in the US, your very government is the result of Christianity.

I doubt you will take my advice, but I will give it anyway...Instead of spending any time attempting to convince others that their beliefs are wrong, why don't you do something productive, or do something that will actually help people. You claim we are worse off from religion, yet you fail to realize that the majority of charities are religious, the majority of those who often do for others in various ways are religious, etc.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
1. No miracle has ever caused a lost limb to grow back.

2. Claiming that the universe is proof of a god is the same as claiming that a forest fire is proof of an arsonist. The universe in not proof.

3. The ten commandments are nothing more than common sense laws (Well, except for the ones that are self serving to a god) laws that were already in place in Egypt and China.

4. After 6,000 years of worshiping a desert god this world is in worse shape than if a god had never been invented.

Please don't attempt to offer other things, like saying, Yeah, but Jesus died on the cross for our sins. If you can't address the four points posted then you'll just derail this thread.


1. Why do you claim that this miracle has not occurred? There were Masters in the past who did regrow limbs. All things are made of energy, which can be manipulated into ANY form by your mind and recreated. Just think about that for a moment.

2. You are proof in itself that there is a God.

3. If they are common sense laws, then you must follow them with all your might? Yes? After all, they are common sense.

4. Who says you have to worship a God? The Churches say so? Your books say so? Your historians say so? Your parents say so? The Kingdom of Heaven is not about worship, it's about knowing yourself.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by jiggerj
The acts caused by religion are not natural and can be done away with if humans came to the conclusion that there are no gods.



I think you are wrong here, the USSR had no god.... they murdered 61 million people, stalin taking credit for 41 million of those. Without gods, psychopathic narcissists attribute their crazy power trips to some other ideology.

Mankind does bad things regardless of gods. Gods are simply an easy scapegoat.
edit on 10-8-2013 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)


Oh I quite agree. Getting rid of gods would be one less scapegoat.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 06:12 AM
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So essentially when atheists do things in the name of man, it is natural human depravity, but when religious people do things in the name of God, it's unnatural? Double standard. Religion has been used as a lever throughout history to manipulate people, but when it is replaced, something else comes in to fill the void. And as an aside, what makes you so certain religion is unnatural?
reply to post by StalkerSolent
 


It can't be a double standard if religion has no valid reason to exist. Religion is the outcome of the child-like awe of things we didn't understand in the past: earthquakes, hurricanes...



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by jiggerj
The acts caused by religion are not natural and can be done away with if humans came to the conclusion that there are no gods.



I think you are wrong here, the USSR had no god.... they murdered 61 million people, stalin taking credit for 41 million of those. Without gods, psychopathic narcissists attribute their crazy power trips to some other ideology.

Mankind does bad things regardless of gods. Gods are simply an easy scapegoat.
edit on 10-8-2013 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)


Oh I quite agree. Getting rid of gods would be one less scapegoat.

Put no gods before me - get behind me satan.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 06:42 AM
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It all depends on how you look at things.
reply to post by JiggyPotamus
 


No. The truth for one is the truth for all, or it is not the truth. At some point early man faced a hurricane and said, "A god is doing that." Somebody considered the bubonic plague and said, "A god is punishing us." Now we look at the universe and some are trying to say, "A god created it."

The common thread here is that early man couldn't possibly know how the weather worked, couldn't possibly know about viruses in the microscopic world, can't possibly know how the universe was created. Throughout history all ignorant conclusions about gods have been proven incorrect. Why would it be any different today?



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 07:09 AM
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reply to post by JiggyPotamus
 





I doubt you will take my advice, but I will give it anyway...Instead of spending any time attempting to convince others that their beliefs are wrong, why don't you do something productive,


I am doing something productive. I am one voice trying to raise awareness of the lies we've been living with. We can't fix the human condition if we are bogged down in superstitions, wishful thinking, and false hopes. The monotheistic religions are based on such things.

Imagine a woman gang raped and during recovery she says, "I am going to lose my mind over this.' The religious response is, "God doesn't give us more than we can handle." That is utterly absurd.

What does religion say to a man starving to death? When you enter into heaven you will never feel hunger again. A lot of good that does for the man now.

Charities are not founded on religion, but on good people that would be charitable even if the gods had never been imagined. Consider the Jerry Lewis Telethon, the Jimmy Fund, Doctors without Borders... Just good people doing some good in the world.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 07:23 AM
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1. Why do you claim that this miracle has not occurred? There were Masters in the past who did regrow limbs. All things are made of energy, which can be manipulated into ANY form by your mind and recreated. Just think about that for a moment.
reply to post by ctophil
 


In today's world everyone with a computer and internet access can witness numerous so-called miracles. Yet, try searching youtube for a clip where god miraculously grows the lost limb of an amputee.

Apparently, regaining a lost limb isn't as important to god as it is to turn tooth fillings into gold:

Gold teeth Jesus Christ does it again

Or dropping pretty baubles on his worshipers.

Gold dust and diamonds in church-(Verbal testimonies)



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 07:28 AM
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reply to post by ctophil
 





2. You are proof in itself that there is a God.


No. I am proof that life exists on earth. Nothing more. According to your way of thinking, horses prove that unicorns exist, and short Irish people prove that leprechauns exist.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
It can't be a double standard if religion has no valid reason to exist. Religion is the outcome of the child-like awe of things we didn't understand in the past: earthquakes, hurricanes...


But religion does have a valid reason to exist. If it had no valid reason to exist, it would die.
That's the way of the world. Things cease to exist if they serve no purpose. I can think of many things that serve no useful purpose (religion not being one of them) but I can think of very few things that serve no purpose at all.
And at any rate, as I said before, you've no way of calculating the result of eliminating religion. Get rid of the crusades? Maybe. Eliminate the Renaissance? Possibly.
Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by StalkerSolent
I can think of very few things that serve no purpose at all.

The human appendix comes to mind.





posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by StalkerSolent
I can think of very few things that serve no purpose at all.

The human appendix comes to mind.


Clearly it serves the purpose of keeping doctors well stocked with cash.


But seriously, even my lazy, halfhearted attempt at "research" shows that the appendix has some function.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj



It all depends on how you look at things.
reply to post by JiggyPotamus
 


No. The truth for one is the truth for all, or it is not the truth. At some point early man faced a hurricane and said, "A god is doing that." Somebody considered the bubonic plague and said, "A god is punishing us." Now we look at the universe and some are trying to say, "A god created it."

The common thread here is that early man couldn't possibly know how the weather worked, couldn't possibly know about viruses in the microscopic world, can't possibly know how the universe was created. Throughout history all ignorant conclusions about gods have been proven incorrect. Why would it be any different today?



This argument is flawed. If a God created the universe, a God created that weather phenomena and the virus that caused the plague. Being able to see the mechanisms that answer how lends no credence to any answer regarding why.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by GodIsRelative
 




At some point early man faced a hurricane and said, "A god is doing that." Somebody considered the bubonic plague and said, "A god is punishing us."




This argument is flawed. If a God created the universe, a God created that weather phenomena and the virus that caused the plague. Being able to see the mechanisms that answer how lends no credence to any answer regarding why.


Is it that you honestly don't know what I'm talking about, or are you just being pugnacious?



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


I think it's just that you're constantly shifting your point so you don't ever feel defeated.

You said "All ignorant conclusions made about God have been proven wrong."

Where exactly did you provide an example of that?



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by GodIsRelative
reply to post by jiggerj
 


I think it's just that you're constantly shifting your point so you don't ever feel defeated.

You said "All ignorant conclusions made about God have been proven wrong."

Where exactly did you provide an example of that?


I haven't shifted my point even once. You keep trying to get around the points (or you really don't know).

From the beginning people believed that god personally shook the earth to make earthquakes. This was discovered to be false.

People believed that god personally caused volcanic eruptions. This was discovered to be false.

People believed that god personally blew on the air to make hurricanes. This was discovered to be false.

People believed that god put the earth in the center of the universe. This was discovered to be false.

People believed that god made the sun orbit the earth. This was discovered to be false.

People believed that god personally created and sent plagues to punish mankind. This was discovered to be false.

Even as recently as the 1980's some people believed that god personally caused the AIDS virus to punish gays. This was discovered to be false.

And now people are looking at the universe and saying, "This is proof of god." If we ever find the answer to how the universe was created, going by the track record of all the false religious beliefs since the first god was invented, do you honestly think that answer will be a god did it?


edit on 8/11/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Have you never heard of symbolism?

A God may have sent a plague to punish mankind. You can't know that It didn't. Whether he did this by miraculous sickness or a virus carried by a flea is irrelevant. The how has nothing to do with the why. Even with a scientific explanation for these events, there is always the question of if it is random, or if there is indeed some purpose for the universe's existence in the first place. You can't say that just because people didn't understand how these things worked that their inference of a reason is wrong. It's poor logic.



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