deadly train derailment in Spain

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
I tell you what though.... that Video Footage is awesome! If this was a crash in a Movie, it would have been rated very highly for special effects! Almost 3D coming at ya.

Anyways, people keep saying it was an explosion when it wasn't, as I said in my last post, it was the Pylon taking a hit and then the flash occurs!

How did the Driver of that Train manage to get out alive? Damn lucky bugger!

edit on 25-7-2013 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist because: (no reason given)

You are correct, the flash can be isolated with the stop motion fairly easily, enough to see it above the train.

What explosion? Did you even see the video? Train went off the rails because of the high speed, which is seen in the video.

He was going about 200 km/h, while the limit on this part is 80 km/h. Everything over 80 km/h in this part is seriously dangerous. One train derailed in the same spot on the first day those tracks were open for public. Person responsible is known to drive the train over 200 km/h all the time.

Looking at the footage it looks "unreal", like out of a movie.

Even an amateur sees right away the train is WAY too fast, he is swooshing through the curve at 190kmh (!!!) which is twice what is allowed. How this is possible is beyond me. They say the train driver has 30 years of experience. It doesn't take rocket science to assume that you better DO NOT drive a high-speed train at 190kmh at this specific location, the rest is simple physics. Just unreal.

So I had this question, ever since I heard about this accident and now it has been answered.

Lets assume we where on that train, it was moving at twice the speed of what is allowed. So I asked myself, how come no tweets where made 'yolo train moving really fast yo" or something like that.

Basically how come no one asked about the speed and how come the "mission control room" didn't see that the train was moving at way above speed? They are being monitored, that's standard procedure.

Well the answer is this.

I just heard on the news some of the passengers( who survived obviously) said the train actually went very slow and only right before nearing the station it started to accelerate.

Strange no? Keep in mind that all these train accidents happened right be before or at a station.

Originally posted by Senduko


I just heard on the news some of the passengers( who survived obviously) said the train actually went very slow and only right before nearing the station it started to accelerate.

Strange no? Keep in mind that all these train accidents happened right be before or at a station.

That's part of why they need the black box, there is an automatic system in place, whether it's an audio warning or auto braking for overspeed, nobody is saying as yet. There may be some technical spec on the internet somewhere though.
This the system in place from Renfe's annual report 2010.

New Safety Management System.

"Renfe has invested 80 million euros in the installation in its entire fleet of
ASFA Digital (Automatic Signalling and Brake Warning) equipment, a security
system that reduces the possibility of human error by up to 60%, improving
safety controls and making driving more reliable"

Originally posted by Senduko
Btw another posted commented here about the french train accident.

He said the official story said it was caused by a piece that fell of. Well this piece they are talking about was a piece of the railroad ( like uhm to switch between tracks ).

Now a railway official said that such a piece ways about 10Kilo, and he said chances that they came off by accident are almost none.

Can you link to a quote by this "official" because I think he's talking bollocks. That is exactly what happened at Potters Bar in the UK in 2002. Metal fatigues and breaks and a piece like that at a point has to endure quite considerable stress, which if maintenance is ignored can lead to disaster.

Originally posted by Senduko
Honestly, prior to 2013 I never heard about train accidents, let alone with fatal casualties. No matter what the statistics say. Its not just me, everyone says there's to much train accidents going on.

That's just an absurd stance to take..

"I haven't heard of any since before this year, so therefore they didn't happen"....

Really, you're going to stick by that statement are you? Despite the fact that you simply and easily look up a chronology of train accidents and can plainly see that this year is nothing special.

Originally posted by Skywatcher2011

Originally posted by Blasdelezo

The story goes. Probably the train's velocity was too high to take the curve, where the accident happened.

If the train were going too fast, wouldn't you think the first car would have derailed first over the second? or third?

Not necessarily - the first car is heavier as it has an engine, so can stick to the rails, but momentum will take the lighter passenger cars off, dragging the whole train with it.

Still think it is suspicious. Remember, sabotage hasn't been ruled out. Someone could have did something to cause the car that was derailing coming into view derail.

reply to post by SixX18


What is suspicious about it? The train is clearly going to fast for the curve and the driver has even admitted as much.

reply to post by stumason


Exactly. And one more thing from simple physics: first part of the train slowed down because of the curve, while the second part still had its momentum. That would have the same effect on the train as seen in the video.

P.S.: The person responsible is in the hospital and under arrest. He even admitted that he drove to fast.

P.P.S: About the tweets: people in Europe don't use as much tweeter as people in the US. Actually i personally don't know anyone that uses it. And it's not like you could see tweets: "I'm gonna survive this. LOL JK" and stuff.

Originally posted by stumason

Not necessarily - the first car is heavier as it has an engine, so can stick to the rails, but momentum will take the lighter passenger cars off, dragging the whole train with it.

Here's a picture of the trainset if you want to study it,




In edit, in fact it may have been a bigger train, and not this one. I'll look for a picture.

reply to post by stumason


Stop hammering about facts we already know, start asking or answering questions we want to know.
I understand what you are saying.

You replied to all my posts accept for the post where I asked how come control room didn't raise the alarm ( since they follow high speed trains, mandatory ).

Or why the the surviving passengers said the train was going at normal speed, but suddenly nearing the station started to accelerate, which makes no sense.

They also said on TV, that since 2005 all European high speed railroads are equipped with a fail safe system to prevent exactly this. Problem is this track still has some parts where its the old rail system and thus no fail safe ( again doesn't really matter if you have a control room supervising).

They still haven't said if the train was on a new part of the rail or an old part.

Place of the crash starting at around 31:30
If the video won't load, try changing quality.

Anyone knows whats those blocks are between the tracks at 31:30?

reply to post by Senduko


What questions? Seems pretty open and shut to me, I'm not the one banging on about terrorism, sabotage or a suicidal train driver.

As for the fail safes, these don't always work or don't do anything other than provide a warning to the driver. Such an example would be the Paddington disaster of 1999 - one driver jumped a red signal, the system that was on the train merely provided an audible warning and didn't automatically apply the brakes. He then ploughed head on into an oncoming Intercity train, killing 30+ people. Even today, only a few operators in the UK have the ATP system fitted

reply to post by smurfy
I guess a knee jerk reaction on my part. Lets see what the investigators find and actually publish their findings.

This is from The Guardian a while ago, according to their information, the train had automatic braking which did not operate. But is more complex than that, the ASFA system was in use, but it seems there are limited information points back to the train. Human error could still be the factor, the track is actually at the end of a high speed run, but THAT PART of the track is limited.


www.guardian.co.uk...

Originally posted by intergalactic fire
reply to post by tony9802

 

You can messure it for yourself using the video and googlemaps. You won't get an exact data of the velocity but you'll be close.
As i said before i live pretty close to santiago and have family members living there. So you can imagine what's on television and on the streets today.

It must be really disturbing there currently.. From what I have been watching there is a huge amount of solidarity with the victims and survivors and it's pretty clear to me, that an in depth investigation is proceeding. In the meantime, they are still determining identification of victims so as to create a list of names of those individuals who are now deceased. A really important detail though, is the Black Box of the train, which has been obtained and is currently in the hands of a judge or judges. The Box will elucidate many things, and very importantly the velocity at which train was moving. I'm personally uncomfortable with the idea that the driver "stated" that he was driving at 180km/hr. That information may be made up and serving as a distraction- There are too many internal safety triggers in the train system to allow that type of high speed driving and my feelings are that it's inappropriate to accuse the train conductor at this point of being responsible. The Black Box has much information that needs to be observed before being able to proceed with severe accusations.

What happened there is terrible though.. I hope people are able to process everything, which is probably really difficult especially given that it all occurred a few hours prior to the yearly pilgrim festivities of Compostela.

Originally posted by intergalactic fire


Place of the crash starting at around 31:30
If the video won't load, try changing quality.

Anyone knows whats those blocks are between the tracks at 31:30?

edit on 25-7-2013 by intergalactic fire because: (no reason given)

Not yet, but one other point that I thought was interesting which has something to do with time, THE TRAIN WAS SCHEDULED TO ARRIVE AT THE EXACT TIME THAT THE ACCIDENT HAPPENED. Isn't that totally bizarre?
I think it's significant-

My thinking is that drivers frequently went faster than the speed limit on that stretch - and the more often they did, the more they assumed it was safe to do so ...... But that is just speculation.

Interesting comparison with the Cumbrian train crash in Britain a few years back - on that occasion the train, travelling at nearly 100mph - dereailed in the countryside and the ony fatality was an elderly passenger whom, I think, had a heart attack. This derailment occurrred in town with the train hitting a retaining wall. Big difference.

Originally posted by tony9802

Originally posted by intergalactic fire


Place of the crash starting at around 31:30
If the video won't load, try changing quality.

Anyone knows whats those blocks are between the tracks at 31:30?

edit on 25-7-2013 by intergalactic fire because: (no reason given)

Not yet, but one other point that I thought was interesting which has something to do with time, THE TRAIN WAS SCHEDULED TO ARRIVE AT THE EXACT TIME THAT THE ACCIDENT HAPPENED. Isn't that totally bizarre?
I think it's significant-

edit on 25-7-2013 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)

All depends on the thickness of your tin foil hat .....