humanity punished in eternal hell? Theology

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Look at Rex's avatar, with the detail of Da Vinci's painting of the Sistine Chapel ceiling. He believes his own imaginings are the direct gift from Go's mind, given directly to him without a mediator.

As ever, jmdewey, you have a knack for reading a lot into the statements of others, and even their avatar photos, without knowing anything about them, or at most, next to nothing. Did you get your knowledge of Rex as a "direct gift from Go's [sic] mind"? Do you see how this makes you look? Why don't you try playing fair for a change?

reply to post by Lazarus Short

Did you get your knowledge of Rex as a "direct gift from Go's [sic] mind"?

No, I got it from his posts on this thread and on the "Is Jesus the deception?" thread.
"How this makes me look" is like someone who can understand what someone is saying in what he writes, in how he demeans everyone except for himself, including using derogatory terms for those people, such as "the others" and "the masses" as if they were so much cattle.
"The tinfoil hats" is another one Rex uses that dehumanizes people.
"....Pure insanity! " is one way he describes how people read the Bible and interpret for themselves its meaning.

reply to post by jmdewey60


OK, you have a basis for what you say, but I should not have had to call you out to get the context. It looks on the face of it that you're bashing Rex (and others) for no reason. Further, if you are really keeping tabs on this sort of thing, there is even less reason to interact with you. Sorry, but that's the way it looks from here.

Originally posted by Deetermined
It's about understanding.It will help me and anyone else who's reading this thread to understand how and why our views/beliefs could possibly be so different as they both relate to God/Jesus.

edit on 29-7-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

I am answering your questions assuming you are being honest in your reason for asking them.I am not going to debate my answers with you or anyone else.If you are being honest my answer should tell you what you want to know.There are no simple answers to those questions I'll make it as succinct as I know how .

I didn't receive any of it through mysticism although some of my experiences were not common.Neither were the scriptures the basis of what I hear.As Yahoshua said the scriptures are a testimony /witness of the truth because they testify of the truth which is Yahoshua.

Yahoshua said I can do nothing of my own.All I do I hear from the father.The keys to the kingdom are... flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Father has.That is the rock of foundation.God reveals himself...unveils...the apocalypse of Yahoshua.The flesh does nothing Yahoshuas words are spirit and life.

These are all things that the scriptures testify of and many more however they can only be believed through faith until it is fully formed and then when unveiled it becomes knowing...communion.This is what Paul was writing of when he says he was once a child and saw in a mirror darkly but is now face to face.

Are the scriptures evil..God forbid....however they are milk not the meat of the Living word of God.That is what Yahoshua meant when he said you must eat my flesh and drink my blood or you have no life in you.That was not literal or religious transmogrification it is unveiled communion...knowing God.

It is "hearing" the still small voice...no it is not audible it isn't mysticism it isn't anything that can be explained fully with the futility of babylon words.It is a process ...a very slow process of grain of sand upon grain of sand.There is no religious method to it at all .It is cacophonous and perfect order simultaneously.A completely different way of perceiving.It is lateral in perception not linear.It can only be received not chosen.That was one of the first unveilings I experienced is that anyone with ears to hear will hear and know they have it all wrong.

Hearing has nothing to do with any form of religious prayer, meditation , channeling,projection,astral projections ,readings, etc.It is the most normal thing there is.It is almost like nothing happening.No trance visions or great awakening,ascension or ecstasy of emotions just...normal.God exists and I exist and that's the way it is.

As I said Yahoshua said it very clearly.I can do nothing of myself.I only do what I hear and see the father does and says.That is all I'm doing.Hearing.He clearly said them that have ears "LET them hear"..it was command not an observation.God gives the ears.God does EVERYTHING.I know no clearer way to say it.It is the bottom line of everything I ever say.

I'll explain what little I understand of the process because I don't know how it all works.I'm a musician so that is my "relative" experience.When I hear music I "hear it". I don't think of music as "theory" first ever.It is music.I know the theory very well so the translation is simple however the theory is a "witness" of what I hear ...not "what I heard".

Music theory is meaningless without hearing and it isn't necessary to know music theory to hear music.Of course I don't mean passive hearing that the majority of folks do.I "actively hear" it.It makes sense to me by "knowing".When I compose music I hear it in my "mind" before I play .Knowing music theory is not hearing music.Many people "hear" by the numbers ...it is just a system(religion) to them.

That is one of the advantages of knowing what hearing is. I've already experienced it for years through the physical realm.It's natural.Yes I practiced but in one sense I did not practice hearing that was given to me.It is a talent and that's where the analogy breaks down.Hearing God is not a talent nor by studying does hearing get better.God does everything.

I studied the scriptures for years and all I got from it was religion even though I thought I knew God just like all the other religious.When I started hearing I knew what I learned was wrong.If the basis of the premise is wrong , all that is supposed from the premise is wrong.The Truth is..It is impossible to know God by studying the scriptures.Every premise will lead to a wrong conclusion.Studying is not hearing.

In conclusion.I am NEVER judging anyone for not hearing and or being religious.I empathize.God is the giver of ears.However as long as I hear I will continue to deny the ignorance of God that is spoken foolishly.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

OK, you have a basis for what you say, but I should not have had to call you out to get the context. It looks on the face of it that you're bashing Rex (and others) for no reason. Further, if you are really keeping tabs on this sort of thing, there is even less reason to interact with you. Sorry, but that's the way it looks from here.

Thanks again Lazarus.False accusations are par for the course.I don't desire arguments with anyone.Keep denying ignorance.

reply to post by Rex282


Thanks for your reply.

I do have a better understanding of what you believe, although I may not agree with all of it (just some of it).

In the meanwhile, I thought of you when this thread popped up and I think you may be the best person to answer this individual's question...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Rex282

 

Thanks for your reply.

I do have a better understanding of what you believe, although I may not agree with all of it (just some of it).

Thanks I don't expect anyone to believe or know what I know.I am not trying to convince anyone of anything.I am just making statements of what I know.

Originally posted by Deetermined
In the meanwhile, I thought of you when this thread popped up and I think you may be the best person to answer this individual's question...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I saw this thread before and was going to stay out of it.Belief is a very strenuous subject and when it gets mixed with math even more so.I do have some non math thoughts on it .

reply to post by Rex282

I saw this thread before and was going to stay out of it.Belief is a very strenuous subject and when it gets mixed with math even more so.I do have some non math thoughts on it .

Do you mind sharing both? If it makes it a little easier, just let it be known what parts you're willing to debate and comment on and which ones you won't, in case you fear it getting out of hand. You know, kind of like you did here.

reply to post by Rex282

False accusations are par for the course.

I'm guessing you mean me.
All I am doing is stating some things that I know.
If you think I am wrong in some detail, you could correct that bit if you want.
Your silence seems to confirm that I got it right.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Rex282

 

I saw this thread before and was going to stay out of it.Belief is a very strenuous subject and when it gets mixed with math even more so.I do have some non math thoughts on it .

Do you mind sharing both? If it makes it a little easier, just let it be known what parts you're willing to debate and comment on and which ones you won't, in case you fear it getting out of hand. You know, kind of like you did here.

That thread looks pretty spun out. I wrote a lot on it however I'm not ready to post anything just yet.Hell..I could write a book on all the things I've wrote in response to an ATS thread but never posted.Fortunately ...I'm not into writing books.!!

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Rex282

 

False accusations are par for the course.

I'm guessing you mean me.
All I am doing is stating some things that I know.
If you think I am wrong in some detail, you could correct that bit if you want.
Your silence seems to confirm that I got it right.

edit on 30-7-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Jim I'm only responding to you because you do not seem to understand tact very well.You make a lot of personal assumptions you know nothing about.If you want to respond to my posts intelligently with courtesy I will respond to you.However your personal false accusations are out of bounds.I won't be discussing or responding to anymore of your false accusations or adversarial tactics at all or anything on this subject so please don't bother to respond to this post because I won't.

reply to post by Rex282

. . . your personal false accusations are out of bounds.

At least you have the opportunity to respond if you wanted to, while the subjects of your criticism (everyone in the world except for you) don't, mostly because they are not aware of what you are saying about them.

reply to post by Rex282


That's because the thread needs some new life, ideas, and something truly to ponder.

This thread needs some new life too. It is fairly well played out, having degenerated into bickering, as all threads which are important seem to do. At some point we all must ask ourselves what is more important, the subject at hand, or ourselves and our egos.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
This thread needs some new life too. It is fairly well played out, having degenerated into bickering, as all threads which are important seem to do. At some point we all must ask ourselves what is more important, the subject at hand, or ourselves and our egos.

I think it's serving it's purpose...denying ignorance.I think that is an apt summation of all that we can do.No one can be convinced about the Truth.A man convinced against his "false free will" is unconvinced still....sorry I had to do that!!.

The fact is ...the good news won't be accepted.That's how it works.It has to be rejected as proof that man does not have free will to chose it.It is the modern day hardening of Pharaohs heart.Mankind can't comprehend God in any way by their mind.The salvation of all goes against their nature of selfishness and delusion.

Think of how many folks have read and studied the scriptures and can't see the Truth blaring in their face.There are pastors that studied scripture in cemeterys but don't understand any of it.It is truly a treasure hidden in a field.A pearl of great price.Hidden from the wise of this age that they may be fools.It's the way it works.We have to go down the wide path that leads to the gate of destruction....religion...until it is ground to powder.

It is impossible to judge anyone for that.God is doing it all...and everyone will do it.There are days I grow tired of getting rocks thrown at my head but better that than walking back down that wide path.The small payoff comes when someone else hears also.The servant is not above his master.I didn't sign up for this but I'm glad I got signed up.I didn't know what Yahoshua meant by your own house will be against you.I now know it well.It's on the job training learning to deflect the darts and when to pull out the sword.It's all part of the trip and it only intensifies.

just keep denying ignorance...it all works out.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Rex282

 

That's because the thread needs some new life, ideas, and something truly to ponder.

I'll go ponder some more!

Originally posted by Rex282


I think it's serving it's purpose...denying ignorance.I think that is an apt summation of all that we can do.No one can be convinced about the Truth.A man convinced against his "false free will" is unconvinced still....sorry I had to do that!!.

The fact is ...the good news won't be accepted.That's how it works.It has to be rejected as proof that man does not have free will to chose it.It is the modern day hardening of Pharaohs heart.Mankind can't comprehend God in any way by their mind.The salvation of all goes against their nature of selfishness and delusion.

Think of how many folks have read and studied the scriptures and can't see the Truth blaring in their face.There are pastors that studied scripture in cemeterys but don't understand any of it.It is truly a treasure hidden in a field.A pearl of great price.Hidden from the wise of this age that they may be fools.It's the way it works.We have to go down the wide path that leads to the gate of destruction....religion...until it is ground to powder.

It is impossible to judge anyone for that.God is doing it all...and everyone will do it.There are days I grow tired of getting rocks thrown at my head but better that than walking back down that wide path.The small payoff comes when someone else hears also.The servant is not above his master.I didn't sign up for this but I'm glad I got signed up.I didn't know what Yahoshua meant by your own house will be against you.I now know it well.It's on the job training learning to deflect the darts and when to pull out the sword.It's all part of the trip and it only intensifies.

just keep denying ignorance...it all works out.

I liked your wording: "...studied scripture in cemeterys...". Was the spelling intentional? Did you mean to say that cemetery = seminary? Whatever, I got a good chuckle out of it.

It occurs to me that the Man who finds the treasure hidden in a field or the pearl of great price, is none other than Jesus/Yahoshua. Most parables have Him as the main Subject. As the Bible states elsewhere, it is the glory of God to conceal a matter, just as Jesus hid the treasure He found in a field (the world), so that no one else would find it. In the same way, Jesus told His disciples the plain truth, but hid it in parables so that most would not understand. The Bible also states that it is the glory of Kings to uncover these things, and to me, it implies that anyone who can do this is (or will be?) a King.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short


I liked your wording: "...studied scripture in cemeterys...". Was the spelling intentional? Did you mean to say that cemetery = seminary? Whatever, I got a good chuckle out of it.

very intentional...

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
It occurs to me that the Man who finds the treasure hidden in a field or the pearl of great price, is none other than Jesus/Yahoshua. Most parables have Him as the main Subject. As the Bible states elsewhere, it is the glory of God to conceal a matter, just as Jesus hid the treasure He found in a field (the world), so that no one else would find it. In the same way, Jesus told His disciples the plain truth, but hid it in parables so that most would not understand. The Bible also states that it is the glory of Kings to uncover these things, and to me, it implies that anyone who can do this is (or will be?) a King.

Yes ..and that is the dichotomy wrapped in a conundrum.It looks like teaching but it isn't.If Yahoshua was such a great teacher why didn't anyone understand what he said and why didn't he want them to.The general consensus on parables is they were so easy to understand..NOT!..they are impossible to understand!Yet sermons are full of the "deciphering".

I've said this so many times yet it is worth repeating.The parable of the soils and seed is the key parable to understanding all parables.The living word is the seed that must be sown in "fertile" soil for it to grow a good tree(not ethics or moral) that produces good fruit.The core of the parable is unless the seed(The LIVING word of God) is sown in fertile soil(dirt..adamah....man...ADAM!) it produces nothing but death.There is no "teaching" involved.It is all Gods doing..by revelation...apocalypse..which means unveiled or uncovering...covering means HELL!!...unhelled...and of course hades means the grave..the realm of death and imperception.

The culminating clincher is the closing statement.30,60,100 fold increase which is... a Fibonacci sequence.... absolutely BRILLIANT!!Yahoshua perfectly tied in the growing (salvation) of the living word/seed in man into the process which everything GROWS!!...and the cemetery preachers have not a clue.All of it is hidden only to be revealed.

Originally posted by Rex282


Yes ..and that is the dichotomy wrapped in a conundrum.It looks like teaching but it isn't.If Yahoshua was such a great teacher why didn't anyone understand what he said and why didn't he want them to.The general consensus on parables is they were so easy to understand..NOT!..they are impossible to understand!Yet sermons are full of the "deciphering".

I've said this so many times yet it is worth repeating.The parable of the soils and seed is the key parable to understanding all parables.The living word is the seed that must be sown in "fertile" soil for it to grow a good tree(not ethics or moral) that produces good fruit.The core of the parable is unless the seed(The LIVING word of God) is sown in fertile soil(dirt..adamah....man...ADAM!) it produces nothing but death.There is no "teaching" involved.It is all Gods doing..by revelation...apocalypse..which means unveiled or uncovering...covering means HELL!!...unhelled...and of course hades means the grave..the realm of death and imperception.

The culminating clincher is the closing statement.30,60,100 fold increase which is... a Fibonacci sequence.... absolutely BRILLIANT!!Yahoshua perfectly tied in the growing (salvation) of the living word/seed in man into the process which everything GROWS!!...and the cemetery preachers have not a clue.All of it is hidden only to be revealed.

Well said, no, more than well said.

I didn't know 30 - 60 - 100 was a Fibonacci sequence, but that blows me away!

Originally posted by Lazarus Short


Well said, no, more than well said.

I didn't know 30 - 60 - 100 was a Fibonacci sequence, but that blows me away!

YES!! it's hidden just under the surface.I had no idea either until it popped out.Yahoshua is talking math all the time.The scriptures have everything from Pythagorean right triangles to Fn and Phi, Pi to Quantum mechanics.It just looks like something else.Of course God isn't asking anyone to be a mathematician or physicist.The equation is already summed and the theory is unified.The evidence is abundant but the proof is hidden.