humanity punished in eternal hell? Theology

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posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 05:32 AM
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.
Its an issue that smacks the church and causes unbelievers blood to boil, literally
but I have a suspicion it could be wrong

I doubt hell is eternal (for humanity) and I will tell you why.

Eternal life is not a Hebrew belief , The Sadducees didn't believe in the afterlife?
The Greeks taught eternal life not the Jews, this eternal damnation for humanity may have come in through the Greek beliefs.
Adam and Eve were removed from the garden (yes I believe the earth is 6 to 8 thousand years old, sue me) so they couldnt access the tree of life.
22...“Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—

"So He drove the man out; and at the east of the Garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life," (Gen. 3:24).


I believe in a hell with an consuming fire, evil will be consumed and punishment metered out, its just not eternal punishment (cept for the fallen ones of the spirit world)
Chaff is used as a metaphor for sinners, chaff burned is lost. Consumed by fire.
Consumed means to be finished, nothing left. Another way sinners are described as brought to destruction; destruction is explained as; bring to naught.
12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the granary, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”
The fire seems unquenchable but the chaff will be brought to nothing-gone.


The Hebrew seems clear that those outside of Christ will be utterly destroyed and eternal life is only in Jesus. John 3:36 says,
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
John 3:16 says
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Eternal destruction is eternal nothing, after judgement and punishment.

Now some will say eternal fires of hell...true, but
"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8)

For me that states that hell is eternal, not that human suffering in hell is. Satan and his minions have the pleasure of hells eternal punishment, maybe not humans.

I am sure some have heard this before but I am new to it.

Now I am not selling this, it is something I heard and was interested in. It sounds plausible.

Comments arguments and theories?




posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 05:50 AM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 


Does that mean Jesus wasn't jewish then?

Born into the religion....broke their laws...even Changed/corrected them...

Believed in eternal life...

Sounds about right...




posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by borntowatch
 


Does that mean Jesus wasn't jewish then?

Born into the religion....broke their laws...even Changed/corrected them...

Believed in eternal life...

Sounds about right...



What?
How do you figure all that,
Jesus wasnt Jewish???
broke changed and corrected the laws???
Believed in eternal life???

Do you not understand anything, was Jesus not God to you.
I get it now.
Different opinion

Lets get back to hell being eternal or not, I would like to discuss that heresy
with Christians who have a different opinion



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 06:26 AM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 

There is only eternity.
There is only God.
God hides from himself and it feels like hell and when God finds himself it is heaven.

When God is hiding from himself he is man. As man he suffers from the human condition of looking for some thing to complete himself - he looks outside of himself when really there is nothing outside himself.
There is only presence (God is presence) yet God imagines time and space so he can play a game of hide and seek with himself.



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 06:30 AM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 



What?
How do you figure all that,
Jesus wasnt Jewish???
broke changed and corrected the laws???
Believed in eternal life???


geez... read the gospels man...


Do you not understand anything, was Jesus not God to you.


Nope...


His Father is God... He is the son... Not God in the flesh


I get it now.
Different opinion


Correct...


Lets get back to hell being eternal or not, I would like to discuss that heresy with Christians who have a different opinion


Hell is myth... a fear tactic used designed for conversion, and control over the populous

But since i'm not "Christian"... I suppose I don't belong in your thread...




posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 06:38 AM
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You accept the gospels but not teachings on hell, ok, cool

My understanding of "Christian" is different to yours

If hell is a fear tactic used designed for conversion its not working is it, and if its used as a control over the populous, thats failed miserably as well.


I am not interested in your opinion on hell and Christianity.
I am interested in hell and eternal damnation there.
edit on 19-7-2013 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 06:45 AM
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Originally posted by borntowatch
You accept the gospels but not teachings on hell, ok, cool

My understanding of "Christian" is different to yours

I am not interested in your opinion on hell and Christianity.
I am interested in hell and eternal damnation there.


Fair enough...

My personal opinion is that this reality can be heaven or hell depending on what we make it... and what we've experienced in our previous lives...

And by the way there are really no teachings on "hell" in the bible... its only touched on... The idea of hell in the traditional sense in Christianity came from Dante... and were embellished from there

Jesus basically said if one doesn't follow him... they'd end up there... but there wasn't any details about the place so its left open to the readers imagination... I believe he meant you're coming back here... and you won't like the outcome...

The Gnostic's actually went right into detail on the whole "hell" issue...

Do you fear hell?

edit on 19-7-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 06:54 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Jesus basically said if one doesn't follow him... they'd end up there... but there wasn't any details about the place so its left open to the readers imagination... I believe he meant you're coming back here... and you won't like the outcome...


Living in ones thoughts about you in time is hell. Thinking about the past (guilt) and thinking about future (anticipation/dread) is hell. Only when you forget before and next and come to this moment will heaven be experienced, it is right here and right now but man lives in time so misses the glory of God.



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 06:58 AM
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Good old gnostics and their opinion and understanding, God bless them.
For mine I will accept hell as Christ spoke of it in parable and I will gleen my understandings from there
www.biblestudying.net...

If Jesus wasnt human then He wasnt God and His death had no meaning. Just another innocent sucked up in to this broken world.
But you know that



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
Jesus basically said if one doesn't follow him... they'd end up there... but there wasn't any details about the place so its left open to the readers imagination... I believe he meant you're coming back here... and you won't like the outcome...



'Jesus' is this moment. If you don't stay with this moment (Jesus) you will end up 'there' - 'there' is a place that does not exist, only here ever exists as reality. If you go off to 'there and then' you are imagining something that is not real - it is open to the imagination - absolutely anything, any drama, any horror can be imagined in mind but it is not actually happening - all hell can happen in mind and does!
See and hear the real arising of this ever changing wondrous moment and leave all the drama of mind behind and one will be lifted out of hell.



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 


Sure his death had meaning... its an example of how screwed up this world is... Its easy to see when one's thoughts aren't diluted by organized religion...

His death was completely unnecessary... only because his followers wouldn't defend him...

but it was meant to be...

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.




posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 07:09 AM
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Jesus wasnt Jewish?. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah and the line of King David.1 Chronicles 7:14-17,
broke changed and corrected the laws?, No Jesus fulfilled the law Matthew 5:17
Believed in eternal life, no?, Jesus brought Eternal life to humanity Romans 5:21

Completely different view I would think



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 

The father and son are eternal life. Life is eternal. It is this what is happening now - as presence. This here is aliveness and the bible tries to point directly to this moment of presence but the mind with words blinds one to the fact that there is nothing apart from this moment.

Because you are this moment and there is nothing else it is not impossible for you to see that you are the entire thing - all is arising in you as you.
edit on 19-7-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 



Jesus wasnt Jewish?. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah and the line of King David.1 Chronicles 7:14-17,


So he was a horrible jew.... Is it a race or a religion?

Personally I think its a religion... to each their own though...


broke changed and corrected the laws?, No Jesus fulfilled the law Matthew 5:17


by breaking their laws! C'mon man he was executed for it...

He fulfilled the law by telling people the real law... that being the law of Love... which all the "commandments" hang on... Not the 613 laws handed down by man


Believed in eternal life, no?, Jesus brought Eternal life to humanity Romans 5:21


Bah... what does Paul know...

Eternal life has always been... Nothing changed when Jesus came onto the scene... He only told people the truth... which always was, and always has been...

The religion that he was "born into" was based on mans laws... And not good men either... Read about Moses... He wasn't any type of role model...




posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 07:31 AM
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This is so off topic.
I am not interested in arguing gnosticism and your faith, its not what I believe.
Leave it alone and go your way, dust off your shoes

Dont believe in hell, thats fine.
Bless you and all but not interested in an argument



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 07:36 AM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 


Already tried that... you kept replying


Hell is incompatible with a loving creator... but I've said my piece...

Take care

edit on 19-7-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by borntowatch
This is so off topic.
I am not interested in arguing gnosticism and your faith, its not what I believe.
Leave it alone and go your way, dust off your shoes

Dont believe in hell, thats fine.
Bless you and all but not interested in an argument

What do you want?



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 09:20 AM
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Are you asking if man will burn in hell for ever? I just want to make sure so I reply accordingly.



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


Yes, is hell eternal for humanity

Is there enough biblical evidence to suggest that



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by borntowatch
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


Yes, is hell eternal for humanity


if you want something other than what is then there will be suffering - the experience of life will be hell.
If you realize what is and see there is nothing other then the experience will be heaven.

What do you want?





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