They were White and They were Slaves

When I posted above that the concept of race as we know it is quite recent in Europe and very recent in Africa I wasn't kidding this was what Benjamin Franklin had to say on the matter

Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? But perhaps I am partial to the complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind.

www.digitalhistory.uh.edu...
As late as Ben Franklin's time the concept of a White Race that includes all Europeans would be objectionable to him,not even the Germans of his day but now poster children for White Aryan pureness of blood in some quarters could cut muster with him back in the day.

How are you currently affected by your ancestors enslavement?

I can say based on the enslavement of my ancestors; Jim Crow laws were established, integration was FORCED(which I'm against) and institutional racism birthed affirmative action practices.

Instead of RUNNING from history I ask that you who hold on to old patterns of behavior, adjust yourselves...

Blacks were not sold as defined by the white man. Black slaves were indentured servants in Africa.

At first, the white man traded equally, as he respected the black man and then he killed & stole families especially women & children and strong men, so they could breed, "super slaves. "

Denial is a river....

Originally posted by Elliot


If people were taught real history, they would discover that slavery never ended but instead extended to include everyone.

How many people, proportionately of all who have a job are wage slaves?

They go to work, earn their money and pay it all back into the system to survive. There is nothing left. They worked just to survive, just as the slaves were given food, shelter clothes, the majority of workers have the illusion of freedom.

edit on 17-7-2013 by Elliot because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-7-2013 by Elliot because: grammar

edit on 17-7-2013 by Elliot because: grammar

It is refreshing to see I am not on an island, alone anyway.

I always use the robin hood analogy, because all the characters are familiar. When people get it, they usually deny, lol

All govt employees are basically working for the sheriff of nottingham.. either shaking down the peasants for taxes/tribute or getting fat off it in a 'castle job'.

Slop up that trough govt employees

Selling Humans still takes place to this day.

reply to post by Spider879

Slavery in eastern lands was different than in the west because there was little or no chance for upward mobility you were in fact chattel,the Mamelukes of Egypt and the Jannessiries (white Slaves) of the Turks wielded immense power in the case of Egypt

Oh blah blah blah, I keep hearing this nonsense over and over around here. What is wrong with people? Ownership of one man by another is unacceptable and I hear people saying well white slaves weren't as bad off as blacks, white supremacy this and that, slavery in Egypt was different(why? because Jewish people already have favored nation status?)

This is all baloney. If owning blacks by other men is wrong, then so is owning anybody else by anybody else PERIOD.
Y'all are justifying one thing and condemning another as if there's a difference.

You are totally no different than a slave owner when you say these things. The mindset is the same, you just justify it for one group.

I'm thinking some of you get your ideas from the Progressives, but even the Progressives say they are for equality. What's equal about saying that black slave owners and Egyptian slave owners are different from white slave owners?

Again I say, you have an agenda and it's not true equality.

There's a reason for the Equal Protection Clause

The Equal Protection Clause is part of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. The clause, which took effect in 1868, provides that no state shall deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

en.wikipedia.org...


If you all want special rights for this group and affirmative action for that group and justifications for one group but interrogations for another then you are not practicing true equality.

Socialists profess to want social justice but what they practice is far from it.

John Brown's last moments.
My comment as to why the issue of White Slavery was underplayed,it would put a large number of White folks on the same level as the dreaded Blacks,it is important to keep the two from seeing a similar condition among them so they were sold on the whiteness of skin rather than the condition the poorer sorts lived in, after all they shared the same tint of skin as the overlords and they believed that one day they could be overlords themselves off course some resisted this tendency and took up arms for what they see as a wrong and paid the price..see John Brown and his sons,off course they were branded as radical extremist and heroes to non but Black folks and radical whites of their era. the flip side of this is you have blacks joining the slave masters cause some I can with hold judgment they may have been forced to do so but many others join the cause because they were masters themselves.

And this painting of Lisbon Portugal
Notice you will see high ranking military knights on horse backs along with slaves..these men are Africans from the Kingdom of the Kongo these in league with their European counter parts,made raids on other kingdoms in Africa for slaves the relationship lasted all the way down to the end of the 19th century so they were well aware of it's horrors because their Kings had their trade representatives both on the other side of the Atlantic and in Europe looking out for their interest ,if you see some fancy portraits of rich looking Africans in renaissance Europe most likely they belonged to that group but the money of the elite more important than any human condition.
Black folks had better look deeper than the Kunta Kinte version of slavery.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Oh blah blah blah, I keep hearing this nonsense over and over around here. What is wrong with people? Ownership of one man by another is unacceptable and I hear people saying well white slaves weren't as bad off as blacks, white supremacy this and that, slavery in Egypt was different(why? because Jewish people already have favored nation status?) This is all baloney. If owning blacks by other men is wrong, then so is owning anybody else by anybody else PERIOD. Y'all are justifying one thing and condemning another as if there's a difference. You are totally no different than a slave owner when you say these things. The mindset is the same, you just justify it for one group. I'm thinking some of you get your ideas from the Progressives, but even the Progressives say they are for equality. What's equal about saying that black slave owners and Egyptian slave owners are different from white slave owners? Again I say, you have an agenda and it's not true equality. There's a reason for the Equal Protection Clause

There you go you too reducing everything down to Libs Vs Cons..the fact is CHATTLE was more common in the West then the East or you could never had a slave who became king or a prime minister there is a difference I also said that obtaining slaves was every bit as brutal as in Africa..I am certainly not a defender of any type of slavery but not looking how it worked in different locations around the globe is not nonsense.

Originally posted by Krusty the Klown
I was quite interested in your OP - a very egalitarian approach to the topic.

Right up to the last paragraph where you blame everything on the Jews..................

I find it funny that I did not blame it on the Jews, but the imposters who moved into Judea under Nebuchadnezzar (see Jeremiah 35) who were of the house of Rechab who was of the Kenites. These people looked the same, and since they lived in Judea they called themselves Jews and then there were the real Jews of Judah. These same have played the name change throughout history and if you learn to follow them you will know that today they are the top banking families of the world. I am not giving Judah a free pass, but these Kenites are the ones referred to in Rev. 2:9 and 3:9 who are of the synagogue of Satan who claim to be Jews and are not. EDIT TO ADD.. I have been a Messianic member of two synogogues. I love my Jewish brothers and sisters who were blinded for my benefit. I do not try to convert Judah ever. Jesus / Yeshua came for the lost tribes of Israel and others are grafted into that wonderful offering of salvation.

For me this is a spiritual battle. I look at history, the lineages, the use of religion to do damage then turn around and blame that religion you did the damage with to destroy it in preparation to your new system and new religion. They are the masters of take-over. They take over everything the people begin and through that co-opting they then blame those people for anything they end up doing through the groups.

I know this is beyond most people here because of lots of reasons. Many just hate religion, many cannot talk religion without hyper emotion, many are stuck in their dogmas within Christianity which I believe was taken over through Paul and the complete destruction of what it was meant to be at the council of Nicaea in the mid 300's. They used this religion to take over most of the known world. Now, it is time to in their system to bring that to an end and that is why we have witnessed the wholesale attack on Christianity for decades. They love to divide and conquer.

Slavery was a way to get free labor except for meager upkeep. It was a way to control the poor, and now it is being used to divide the masses just as their setting up the abuse within the church is now used against the church. These people are not stupid. They know us better than we know ourselves as a group. We are being played by Masters as if we are the symphony and they are the conductors.

If we cannot see through their methods we will continue to bite at one another, harming each others spirits and never getting rid of this parasitic people. I don't think we can do it because we do not have hearts that have been changed to love one another as we love ourselves. Too many cannot forgive, too many want vengeance, too many do not truly believe the truth they profess as Christians. I believe that is what we will learn in the Millennium if we are not part of the first resurrection. I see that time coming in the near future. Slavery is disgusting, but my OP was to try to show that the hatred is misdirected. Everyone can point to a time they have not been treated fairly in their lives. You can either let it eat you alive or move past it and take control and learn to walk in love with others. Love gathers love.

Originally posted by undo
sadly, in some cases, this information will not change a thing, as many are being taught in black hebrew israelite churches and black liberation churches, that the white race are the seed of esau, and that god loved jacob (the blacks) but hated esau (the whites). no i'm not kidding you.

if confronted with the reality that whites have been historically enslaved, they say things like "you're a loser in both worlds then cause you can't make it in esau's world and you can't make it in jacob's world". i suppose at that point you're supposed to descend into despair and give up all hope.

edit on 17-7-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

Why commune with racist jerks like the BHI's they hate Africans and believe they are the aboriginal people of the America's with no ties to Africa, Liberation churches I donno depends on the one you attend or who was preaching I guess,but I never heard they took that position but remember the curse of Ham was widely taught in regular main stream churches until quite recently and still does in some Mormon temples to justify slavery of Blacks.

reply to post by Spider879


Seeing as you are from Japan, I will give you the benefit of the doubt about the Progressive vs Conservative, but still I saw you justifying one thing and condemning another on the basis of skin color. I still see you buy into white slaves didn't have it as bad as (fill in the blank). Why is this? Either owning slaves is unacceptable or it's not. It's really very simple.

What is with the posters here saying "White slavery isn't as bad because it was White slave owners with White slaves?"

As if some kinds of slavery is okay?

You guys really need to get over yourselves and realize that people of all races have been subjected to slavery, including white people!

reply to post by Spider879


which is odd since jesus said, 2000 years ago, that there should be no more slaves. 2000 thousand years ago. he also said there is no distinction between men and women, for all are one in christ jesus.

let me repeat that. 2000 years ago, jesus said, there should be no more slaves or distinction between men and women, for all are one in christ jesus.

don't you find it odd, that after all this time, no one has credited him with this amazing, ahead of his time, philosophy, that the churches, who all stemmed originally from rome, ignored him in favor of paul's backwards philosophy about keeping the women silent, the continuation of slavery, the racism off the rails, and that he should be ridiculed and blamed for the silliness of human beings in general. the dude was freakin' brilliant.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Spider879

 

Seeing as you are from Japan, I will give you the benefit of the doubt about the Progressive vs Conservative, but still I saw you justifying one thing and condemning another on the basis of skin color. I still see you buy into white slaves didn't have it as bad as (fill in the blank). Why is this? Either owning slaves is unacceptable or it's not. It's really very simple.

Who said white slaves did not have it as bad as black slaves I said eastern slave system was different as their system allowed for upward mobility. which is true.and white slaves weren't the only ones enslaved in the east as were Africans.Turks,East Asians west Asians Europeans whomever.
See my post on Irish slaves in the west they had a pretty hard time of it I made that clear.

I live in Japan but not of Japan ..I am still a Lib though..

Originally posted by Darkmask
reply to post by MrPlow

 

MrPlow you are in denial. Face it you are wrong on many accounts. One of your reasons for disliking white people is not justified. Now get over it.

I'M in denial? You're speaking to a white man who saw, first hand, what the system does to black people, specifically black males.

I'll say it again, this thread and the whole mindset behind it, has nothing to do with healing, but everything to do with deflection.

OP expects a fragmented "history" lesson on war criminal trade will suddenly reverse the very recent past (and in some cases ongoing) history of discrimination based SOLELY on the color of another person skin.

I can't speak for men of other countries, but I know here in America, racial discrimination is still very much alive and well and deeply rooted in our culture.

The only way healing can take place is if, on a large scale, we root racism out. Not through violence. Violence only begets violence. But rather through public scorn, ridicule, and humiliation. Bad enough that it hits the sickness in it's pockets. For example: Paula Deen.
Money seems to be the only thing people in this country understand, so maybe losing it and losing their dignity over their disgusting views will be the only thing that will put an end to this.

Lose your pride in the color of your skin. You didn't earn it. You did nothing to deserve it. You did nothing at all. It is only by chaotic chance that you ended up with it. So, to think yourself superior because of something you had nothing to do with? That is the cancer that is killing our country.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Spider879

 

which is odd since jesus said, 2000 years ago, that there should be no more slaves. 2000 thousand years ago. he also said there is no distinction between men and women, for all are one in christ jesus.

let me repeat that. 2000 years ago, jesus said, there should be no more slaves or distinction between men and women, for all are one in christ jesus.

don't you find it odd, that after all this time, no one has credited him with this amazing, ahead of his time, philosophy, that the churches, who all stemmed originally from rome, ignored him in favor of paul's backwards philosophy about keeping the women silent, the continuation of slavery, the racism off the rails, and that he should be ridiculed and blamed for the silliness of human beings in general. the dude was freakin' brilliant.

edit on 17-7-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

But here is the thing and I am in no way religious most folks cherry picked what they want from the bible to suit their purpose,if it suit them to have slaves they go by the old testament quoting the curse of Ham if they want liberation from slavery they go by what Jesus said or Moses and the Hebrews departure form Egypt.

Originally posted by CSpitta
How are you currently affected by your ancestors enslavement?

I can say based on the enslavement of my ancestors; Jim Crow laws were established, integration was FORCED(which I'm against) and institutional racism birthed affirmative action practices.

Instead of RUNNING from history I ask that you who hold on to old patterns of behavior, adjust yourselves...

Blacks were not sold as defined by the white man. Black slaves were indentured servants in Africa.

At first, the white man traded equally, as he respected the black man and then he killed & stole families especially women & children and strong men, so they could breed, "super slaves. "

Denial is a river....

You should do as I have done and really ask why people hold on to old patterns of behaviour. I agree with much of your post. However I disagree where you mention the indentureship of black people in Africa as in indfentureship is a termed period of working for low wages. That was how must of the East indians came from india to the Caribbean. The indentured also suffered and we must remeber that that was a time when white women had little rights also.

Again attitudes of opposition to genuine universal human equality remain after equaising laws and actions are passed.

I found the essence of the OP years before. Given that the world was a lot more casually brutal in those days and human life was cheaper it is hardly surprising to find whites being enslaved.

However when we come to look at the modern mess we as intelligent Americans find ourselves in we have to ask ourselves these questions.

1) what has been the effect of white historical enslavement today?
2) What has been the effect of black historical enslavement today?

I would argue that the effect of white historic enslavement is negligible. White on white slavery did not have or need the mass propaganda of inferiority of the enslaved nor did black on black. Yet the catholic church had to invoke the enslavement of the Africans and bingo white supremacy was born. A good christian should commit a sin if they enslaved another human being however brutes without souls could and should be enslaved.


Put it this way. A kid punched a man in the nose and was killed. The jury found the man innocent and there was no miscarriage of justice. If the killing was black on black or white on white I believe that even this OP would not have occurred and ATS would have had the usual fare.

Race in America is still a hot topic

reply to post by CSpitta

Blacks were not sold as defined by the white man. Black slaves were indentured servants in Africa. At first, the white man traded equally, as he respected the black man and then he killed & stole families especially women & children and strong men, so they could breed, "super slaves. "

Something to point out CSpitta most of the Blacks that reached the America's were prisoners of war or conquered villages and cities for at the time of the arrival on the coast of the Europeans bitter wars were being fought between nations who just recently began to occupy the coast and the forest zones from the Savannah because they were evenly matched and there was a population boom large amount of POWs were taken to be sacrificed to the ancestors (usually the king's dead dad) to serve him in the after life..others filled the domestic need as slaves, when the Europeans show-up on the coast they part with the surplus for access to firearms and other trade items rather than killed them,but know this Europeans before the repeating rifles could not get pass any of Africa's standing armies they had to get a visa to go inland or were given permission to build a fort or trading station on the coast which they had to pay rent to the royals for. .
White men running around Africa snatching people off the street is largely myth plus African royals when displeased shout the whole operation down until satisfied.

Here is a good exercise...

Anyone here not have slavery, rape or cannibalism in their family history ?

I have all 3 going back only 200years...


You look back far enough and it is all there. For all of us. Anyone saying different is in denial and seriously deluded. Definitely not on the right "deny ignorance" website.


People need to harden up and get over the self pity. It is absolutely pathetic. Your ancestors would be ashamed.

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity

Originally posted by Elliot
reply to post by SmoothRhythm

 

You are NOT ignorant.
You have simply been deceived and deliberately misinformed, much like the rest of us. The past is not a happy story and has to be hidden so that you do not see it being replayed.

They even let us see some make it out of this existence like the hunger games to keep us playing along. It's a sad state of affairs that so many are so filled with anger and hate that they cannot see we have been played by the covering up of history.

NO MORE!

edit on 17-7-2013 by UnifiedSerenity because: (no reason given)

IMHO, the saddest part is they have robbed us of our morality and compassion..(macro not micro)

most people today are filled with hate and jealousy... because THEY arent the ones that got through, or 'finally got a Piece of the pie' George Jefferson and weesie

Was shocked back in HS when The group of hot pretty girls chose me as flavor of the week guy. they all were so shallow and somehow one afternoon, we were talking.. Oh yeah, its when Prince of Thieves came out. They all would prefer to be princesses and have it all. (peasants, servants, greed, etc) than to divvy up like the 'men of the forest' people.