Jesus Died On the Cross For Our Sins.. WHERE is the logic?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by adjensen

Nobody thought that Jerome had mistranslated Origen.

Prove it. I'm still waiting for you to post that passage in Origen's writings on Early Christian Writings.

There is nothing more to argue. Origen taught reincarnation. Shirley McClain was right.

Yeah, unfortunately even the guy that MacLaine got the idea from admitted that there is absolutely no evidence of that.

The book Reincarnation in Christianity, by the theosophist Geddes MacGregor (1978) asserted that Origen believed in reincarnation. MacGregor is convinced that Origen believed in and taught about reincarnation but that his texts written about the subject have been destroyed. He admits that there is no extant proof for that position. The allegation was also repeated by Shirley MacLaine in her book Out On a Limb. (Source)

reply to post by adjensen


Well Mr. MAcGegger, if he really said that, is wrong. Jerome's letter provides proof. Also Wikipedia as your source?

And by the way I'm not posting anything proven to be forgery.

reply to post by TheIceQueen

OK, you don't fathom God's plan. What would you do if you were God? Have all your enemies send in a dozen box tops from your favorite cereal? No? What would you want to grant forgiveness for total mutiny of your household?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by adjensen

 

Well Mr. MAcGegger, if he really said that, is wrong. Jerome's letter provides proof.

It provides proof to you, a biased and demonstrably non-credible voice on the subject. It obviously does not represent proof to someone who is an expert in the field (at least enough of an "expert" to write a book about it.)

Also Wikipedia as your source?

Meh. I'm getting lazy. There is a link on that page to the book -- I skimmed the chapter on Origen, and it's got a lot of weasel words at the beginning, but the overall feel of the chapter is one of ambiguity. He does not come to a conclusive conclusion that Origen taught reincarnation, and recognizes that instances in his writing that might be about reincarnation can also be viewed as being in regards to pre-existence of the soul.

And by the way I'm not posting anything proven to be forgery.

What, pray tell, has been "proven to be forgery"?

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by adjensen

 

Well Mr. MAcGegger, if he really said that, is wrong. Jerome's letter provides proof.

It provides proof to you, a biased and demonstrably non-credible voice on the subject. It obviously does not represent proof to someone who is an expert in the field (at least enough of an "expert" to write a book about it.)

Also Wikipedia as your source?

Meh. I'm getting lazy. There is a link on that page to the book -- I skimmed the chapter on Origen, and it's got a lot of weasel words at the beginning, but the overall feel of the chapter is one of ambiguity. He does not come to a conclusive conclusion that Origen taught reincarnation, and recognizes that instances in his writing that might be about reincarnation can also be viewed as being in regards to pre-existence of the soul.

And by the way I'm not posting anything proven to be forgery.

What, pray tell, has been "proven to be forgery"?

hey fellas...Origen was just on the Psycho hotline and said you guys have beaten that dead horse so much it's going to reincarnate and stomp both your pumpkins heads in...don't shoot the messenger....my suggestion is don't answer your door BUT run (and destroy your computers!) when you hear a whinny...the horse doesn't ring twice.

reply to post by Rex282




I keep asking that he carry this argument over to the ongoing thread on the topic. Pre-existence, Reincarnation & Christianity

But Adj, has another agenda, and that's to also derail this thread.

reply to post by adjensen

It obviously does not represent proof to someone who is an expert in the field (at least enough of an "expert" to write a book about it.)

Like Shirley McClain?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Rex282

 

I keep asking that he carry this argument over to the ongoing thread on the topic. Pre-existence, Reincarnation & Christianity

When did you ever ask that?

But Adj, has another agenda, and that's to also derail this thread.

Why would I want to derail it? I provided an answer back on page one or two. I'm pretty sure that I'm not the one who introduced reincarnation to the thread.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Rex282

 

I keep asking that he carry this argument over to the ongoing thread on the topic. Pre-existence, Reincarnation & Christianity

When did you ever ask that?

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm pretty sure that I'm not the one who introduced reincarnation to the thread.

Yes you are. www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by windword


Fair enough.

Pay close attention, I am fixing to tell you why man exists. This is important.

One day an argument broke out in heaven between Satan and God. Satan contended that the only reason anyone would want to worship God is because they are compelled to do so. Satan pointed out that the only reason the angels do what God says is because they have no choice but to obey the word of God. So God allowed some angels free will for a short time. Some of them rebelled. They had to be put in prison.

God knew He needed followers who will follow Him because they love him and want to. To that end He created man. He gave man free will. Unlike any other creature in the universe man can tell God "No". Telling God "No" is what sin is. Dogs cannot sin. Apes cannot sin. Only man can sin. From the beginning sin entered the world when Eve told God "No" when she ate the fruit anyway.

Now, God made His laws long before He made man. Man has to obey those laws too. God obeys them. Chief of those laws is "The wages of sin is death". If you sin, even once, the penalty is death. There was no place made for humans that sinned. That was not supposed to happen. So when humans sin they go to the prison the angels are still interred in. Since all humans sin pretty much the first thing they ever consiously do, there had to be a way around that. Or God would not have followers who love him and Satan's prison would be over full.

So God sent His son to pay that penalty. And that payment is applied to anyone who honestly seeks it. We are upgraded at that point and we become redeemed into an eternal life by God's side. As it was intended. Creation was perfected by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. We have directly chosen to say "Yes" to God.

He gets His followers, we get eternal life, and Satan gets shown how wrong he is. Everyone wins.

reply to post by Robonakka


But why does he need followers? That seems a little shallow.

reply to post by Rex282

ponder in the pool of saliva filling your inny navel.

When I drool, it's out of the side of my mouth. My beard catches it long before it ever reaches my navel.

9 is to none as ____ is to one......

please do not use your calculator as this counts towards your final grade.

Infinity, but only if: none=zero.

So your sequence wasn't Fibonacci Sequence. 2+3=5 doesn't require any particular sequence to be taken as practically axiomatic.

reply to post by jassie51289


That sounds completely nuts, why would murdering something totally innocent make up for something bad you already did? That makes no sense, wouldn't you wanna do less bad stuff instead of hurting something innocent that had nothing to do with your bad decisions.

That's just craziness, no offense to you, I'm just referring to the OT. I believe in Jesus, but I don't believe in weird sacrifices and stuff to cover your ass when you do something wrong...

I know there's no truth to it, I just can't believe anyone ever believed that.

reply to post by FreeThinkerIdealist


That was awesome

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

No, Satan didn't create the world. He usurped authority from Adam at the fall. So he is certainly no god, he's a created being.

Then why is god dealing with him at all? Or worse yet leaving 'his children' to be Satans plaything. No logic - no consistancy.

Originally posted by FyreByrd

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

No, Satan didn't create the world. He usurped authority from Adam at the fall. So he is certainly no god, he's a created being.

Then why is god dealing with him at all? Or worse yet leaving 'his children' to be Satans plaything. No logic - no consistancy.

To give us another choice.

We can do things God's way or follow the idiot cherub who got himself kicked out of heaven for thinking he could beat God Almighty.

Originally posted by nownow
reply to post by TheIceQueen

 

OK, you don't fathom God's plan. What would you do if you were God? Have all your enemies send in a dozen box tops from your favorite cereal? No? What would you want to grant forgiveness for total mutiny of your household?

According to my understanding of the Christian god and Luther forgiveness can't be bought. Hence the Reformation. If that is the case, just why would god sacrafice his son (who says quite clearly that we all are sons of god)?

I've never seen any logic in the Christian faith even as a child at Sunday school. That's the reason (?) for emphasis on faith - just believe and all will be well. It would be nice if it was that simple, for me it isn't and I've looked elsewhere for guidance, ethics and growth.

Like I said: I guarantee you, no answers here.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

. . . the idiot cherub who got himself kicked out of heaven . . .

That was:
A Prophecy Against the King of Tyre
in Ezekiel 28,

“ ‘In the pride of your heart
you say, “I am a god;
I sit on the throne of a god
in the heart of the seas.”
But you are a mere mortal and not a god,

Ezekiel was using a metaphor to describe how high someone could be yet still not be a god,

You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.

Modern mainstream (not cult members) biblical scholars do not see this describing a Satan.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Dr1Akula

 

Not even one ancient temple stands now in greece, they have all met the violence of early christianity. only 1% is saved today of the ancient knowlege our ancestors left for us, books related to science , history, astronomy, mathematics, philosophy are lost forever, because some fanatic lunatics who couldn't understand them, thought they were related to Satan, because early christianity preached that all pagans were satan's worshipers!

LOL. A deity that they made up! As well, Christianity co-oped the pagan rituals and observances as their own.

I am leaning toward the belief that the Jesus character of the Bible is a composite figure of numerous messianic figures and his death symbolizes the death of the Jewish temple and all the men, women and children that were killed in the "Jewish Wars."

When did the Parthenon fall?

The Parthenon was used as a christian church in Byzantioum, It was not always just half columns and a roof, It was one of the 7 wonders of the ancient world, with ton's of detail and gold and ivory, The christians destroyed the statues to piecies, including the great statue of Athena, used the gold to make crosses and jewellery, burned the ''holy'' books kept in the treassure chest behind Athena and used the remain pieces of marble to build houses for the priests.