In 2009, Ed Snowden said leakers "should be shot." Then he became one

reply to post by Guadeloupe


Isn't the american government committing espionage against its population? Isn't the british and australian governments doing the same? How does whistleblowing this equate to espionage when he revealed these unconstitutional acts to a foreign media outlet?

The government's case is lopsided justice. I am glad russia denied the extradition request on moral grounds. It could also be considered revenge for providing weapons to the muslim brotherhood to overthrow gadafhi and assad which were russian strongholds.

I am not antiamerican. I am pro peace. We have done enough imperialistic misdeeds the last 50 years and our economy is collapsing. Time to focus on internal change, bring the criminals within our government to justice, and upright the sinking ship.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

Have you ever worked in the intel community?

Nope never have or will same with government actually do have an ethical standard.

Positions change depending on environment and who is paying your bills. That may sound mercenary, but the world runs on money, fiat currency or not, it's still a trade-able commodity. He might have even said what he said to defer any suspicion that he was having a change of heart.

I suppose my only point is that it is very hard to reconcile attitudes to specific triggers from an environment with a totally different world-view, like the intel community. It's damn near impossible for someone who has not been exposed to what goes on to justify one position or another when it comes to whistle blowing, disappearing or continuing the "good work." I was in the business and we all have our own paths to walk if and when we escape. Unfortunately, people that are detected early, the ones who want to get out, depending on their level of knowledge and their past, tend not not turn up again. I remember very well how hard it was to get out, the identity obfuscation, pulling favors, paying off people, etc. just to be able to get on a plane and then take my chances getting to Europe so I could make my way back to Canada.

I can understand Snowden's position, if he is the real deal. It only takes one word to turn from asset to liability, that word is "No."

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by johncarter


i know it was all done illegally, but the flipside of the coin is how much information people freely disclose about themselves already, I know right this second that my boss at work is running a bath for his kids and is having pizza for tea, as its all over his facebook,

the spying needs to stop as well as people giving their lives so freely online as well, I hate facebook lol

I really wish I knew where I could find the Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, Elmer Fudd "Duck Season" cartoon, because it would be so fitting in this thread.

Snowden as Daffy Duck, "So shoot me now!"
Elmer Fudd say "OK, " and pulls the trigger.


M.

reply to post by neo96


he will switch the story around saying "i was stupid back then, now i know the truth"

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I know. In fact, I would say that if any one of the posters in this thread were likely to be a target for surveillance, looking at his thread/post history, it'd likely to be him and it's really unfortunate. Although I may disagree with Neo's opinions on a lot of things, I find the fact that individuals with those specific ideologies have been almost painted as domestic threats as incredibly chilling. Unless he's planning on doing something that would be considered illegal, inciting to violence or endangering to the public, I wholly support his right to the freedom of speech even if I disagree with him 99.9% of the time. If it is fear, then I would be scared, too. I'd be lying if the confirmation of such surveillance didn't have me reviewing every little thing that I have said or done on the internet for anything that could potentially raise a flag and I'm somebody that is actually extremely cautious because I grew up with an awareness of potential surveillance at any time. Neo expresses his opinions without check. I respect that. However, I'll also add because I am not sure if it is his motive, that no amount of participation in the deflection away from the disclosures to the targeting of the individual who gave those disclosures is going to eradicate what has already been said. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work that way.

To the OP directly: I actually draw the line on disclosure of classified information when it specifically affects covert military operations by the US or its allies as well because the reveal of such information may place troops in additional harm and eliminates the element of surprise. There's only a few occasions where I think even that kind of disclosure is warranted when it involves human rights abuse or violations of Geneva (ie Abu Ghraib). Where I disagree with Snowden's summation on the specific NY Times article is that the disclosures contained within the article do not appear to do that. The NY Times are not a bunch of idiots that are oblivious to the rules placed on them in regards to what is protected speech and what is not. I'm also aware that probably one of the hardest things to shoulder is the responsibility for national security. I've said it before in other posts and I'll say it again. When you think that what you're doing is an absolute necessity for the defense and safekeeping of your nation, it is generally a very heavy thing and it can create significant issues in terms of that balance of security v. liberty. What his opinions were in 2009 versus his opinions today tell me is that, whatever it was that shifted his opinion on the subject so dramatically had to be a hell of a thing. His eyes and pale face tell the story that he has gone through some sort of major internal ringer. The kid has gone through something to undergo such a radical change. Period.

Originally posted by Rocker2013
reply to post by neo96

 

Well done, you're supporting the effort to discredit a hero. I guess the spyop is working on some, but thankfully millions more have already made up their minds and see Snowden as the hero he actually is.

The effort to discredit is too little, and it's too late.

It also doesn't change the facts of the story one bit - your government is out of control.

Yeah right 'millions'.

Then why bother posting this thread to 'discredit' that source after all 'nothing to worry about'?

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by neo96

 

Ah Yes, my buddy Neo...

I don`t care if he wears Women`s Underwear, Picks his Nose, and is in the Justin Bieber Fan Club.

The REAL story is the Information he Leaked.

As Usual Neo, you talk about the Colour of the Curtains in the Room, Ignoring the Two Ton Elephant.

Yeah the two ton elephant in the room are those 2 largest spies in the world Russia and China because America is bad.

Originally posted by Kali74

Originally posted by neo96
I love how people are making excuses for Snowden.

He said what he said.

I love how you're making excuses for the government.

The government did what it did.

Feel free to quote those excuses

Excuse's ?

Stating the fact they have been spying as long as we have been alive there has never been a time where we haven't been spied on

Oh damn spying was bad under the last administration so the new one was 'suppose' to end it

Never did, the next one wont either.

If a person has to saying spying is bad pretty much goes without saying

reply to post by MysterX

Perhaps back in 2009, Snowden didn't have access to the programmes that would ultimately open his eyes to the full treasonous road his employers were engaged in travelling.

Sorry don't do Perhaps he joined a spy agency and woo hoo people celebrate he grew a conscious?

If he had a conscious he never worked for them.

reply to post by johncarter

You seem to pick up the disinfo very fast about this guy Neo. Before you start throwing stones at him perhaps you should ponder how the NSA team, ordered to come up with every possible way to make him look bad, would act.

Oh I am sorry Snowden supporters built a glass house around him.

If Snowden is the real deal think it matters what I say?

Nope.

Originally posted by XLR8R
reply to post by neo96

 

The world has changed quite a bit in the last 4 years. And so did opinions. People are starting to wake up a little bit at a time. If the trend keeps up and people continue to act in accordance with their ethical beliefs the world will become a much better place.

No it hasn't It is the same now as it ever was and hell even Snowden is proof of that.

People aren't waking up to anything new.

reply to post by rickyrrr

are you saying that if the person that gives us bad news has their character challenged then the bad news aren't true?

People who have character don't spy nor do they run.

I'd have to assume that Alexander the Great had spies too.

The concept of spying is sussing out what the perceived enemy is thinking and doing... a kind of preventative action which is supposed to make warfare easier and has been going on for millennia without a doubt.

What the NSA (and all the spy networks of other modern nations) has conceived is spying on you, me, your neighbour's grandma and everyone who has a digital footprint of some kind. Certainly no-one on ATS is free from that scrutiny nor are our children if they carry a cellphone.

There's a vast difference between the spies Alexander had and the Snowden clones in the NSA.

The only thing I'm glad about is that finally the populations of the Western World are aware that absolutely nothing said online or on cells is private.

Zilch...
Nada...

The downside of it is the fact that those who want to blow things up also now know.

reply to post by TheAnarchist

Who cares about Snowden?

I really don't, but others do that that fragile little glass house around Snowden can't stand a little rain.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by rickyrrr

 

are you saying that if the person that gives us bad news has their character challenged then the bad news aren't true?

People who have character don't spy nor do they run.

You are aware that Snowden showed us the the United States government was spying on everyone, right?

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by TheAnarchist

 

Who cares about Snowden?

I really don't, but others do that that fragile little glass house around Snowden can't stand a little rain.

You care enough to start a thread to try and discredit him

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

You are aware that Snowden showed us the the United States government was spying on everyone, right?

And?

What part of Government spies on us, and always has are some missing?

when you've lost the debate, attack the character.


Didn't anybody hear? his girlfriend pole dances for a hobby!!!!

reply to post by Todzer

You care enough to start a thread to try and discredit him

And

People not allowed to start threads on here?