In 2009, Ed Snowden said leakers "should be shot." Then he became one

Originally posted by neo96
Can't it if some build up paper hero's.

What does this even mean?

reply to post by jacobe001

There is nothing the American People can do about it? So that absolves all the responsibility from their hands since it is in the hands of the fascists, correct?

So Americans found the last admin was spying on them so what did they do?

Elected someone else to stop the spying that didn't end.

The only way spying is going to ever end is if nirbu hits DC

reply to post by neo96


I will say it AGAIN, you said you don't care about Snowden but you have spent DAYS having a go at him, am I not saying it right?! So yes you are tripping up.

Has he told China or Russia anything? Would love to see evidence

reply to post by Todzer


Yeah he has that was sourced here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Guess someone didn't bother reading it.

Originally posted by neo96


So Americans found the last admin was spying on them so what did they do?

Elected someone else to stop the spying that didn't end.

The only way spying is going to ever end is if nirbu hits DC

A post I agree with.
Me and you both know the power is not in the hands of the American People and it is all an illusion to keep them in their place.

If only more people woke up to the farce that we are run at the top by Psychopaths for their own gain.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


It means Snowden is a paper hero comes out of nowhere then 'blows the whistle' at a time when the US and China was getting ready to face off about Chinese spying costing this nation trillions of dollars, and technology stolen.

Fueled by media because the only thing people want to talk about is American spying where as both Russia and China also spy both foreign, and domestically.

PAPER HERO that lacks no substance at all, a media superstar much like 'reality tv stars' nothing there.

reply to post by jacobe001

Me and you both know the power is not in the hands of the American People and it is all an illusion to keep them in their place.

It never has been they have done what they always do regardless of the 'will of the people'.

That was the point I was making

reply to post by neo96


China has everything that Snowden has, yep everything he told the PRESS, China has its own spies and I am sure they are fully aware what America is up to.

And the "highly likely" statement comes from a government that is trying to get their hands on a person that is #ing everything up for them, in other words they don't have a clue but we will say that he has given it to the Russians.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

It means Snowden is a paper hero comes out of nowhere then 'blows the whistle' at a time when the US and China was getting ready to face off about Chinese spying costing this nation trillions of dollars, and technology stolen.

Fueled by meida because the only thing people want to talk about is American spying where as both Russia and China also spy both foreign, and domestically.

PAPER HERO that lacks no substance at all, a media superstar much like 'reality tv stars' nothing there.

So which is it, Snowden is a paper hero that hasn't done anything, or Snowden is evil because he gave all of this information to the US people, the Chinese, and the Russians?

Uh, I don't really have a horse in the race if Russia or China is spying on it's own people, and I have a government that should be protecting me from Russia and China's attempts at spying on me. What Snowden has shown me is that I should be worrying about what my government is doing to spy on me.

Not really sure how this makes him a paper hero. Who is supporting his status as a paper hero? The United States Government? The Chinese? The Russians? It doesn't even make sense.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by jacobe001

 

Me and you both know the power is not in the hands of the American People and it is all an illusion to keep them in their place.

It never has been they have done what they always do regardless of the 'will of the people'.

That was the point I was making

Fair Enough.

So tell me why you think any Human in their right mind in this country would support anything about our government including their cronies (Big Banks and Big Corporations) that run the show?

They are in it for themselves and use our tax dollars to prop themselves up at our expense.

reply to post by neo96


I beg to differ. I see evidence of this all around me in my daily life. Maybe because I'm in Canada. I have no Idea. But around were I am people are slowly seeing all kinds of things in a different light. Very refreshing to witness.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Todzer

 

You care enough to start a thread to try and discredit him

And

People not allowed to start threads on here?

Sure you can do anything you want as long as you don't break the terms and conditions of the site, but what many don't get is why you focus on character assasinating snowden rather than the message he delivered.

You are focusing on all the negative details, based mostly on speculation, and ignoring the tremendous implications of what he revealed.

I think you mean well because I have read your posts here on ATS for years, but somehow have an unhealthy fixation against russia and china. You fear them more than you fear our tyrannical government. If he stayed in the usa he would have been dead or locked up as a make believe traitor. You do want martyrs or heros?

Originally posted by boncho
Context. It's completely out of context. People that turn tail and blow cover are usually self-serving ___holes. It's a fact of life.

Whether or not people think he is a hero, a traitor, is besides the point. For all we know his behaviour was only to secure himself in positions so he could release the information to the public. On the flip side, he was a lazy puke who never wanted to actually put effort in so once he alienated himself enough from the people around him, he fled, dropped a bomb on the public while simultaneously handing over sensitive info to Russia and China. Option 3 would be he was groomed for the part and was paid to do this whole thing, and the information released public and overseas was sanitized in an effort to make it seem like all the State operations were now in the open (while they can continue the good stuff behind closed doors.)

In any case, it boils down to context. We really know absolutely nothing about him and the case in general. What people should focus on is the information dump and not the messenger. The messenger is a distraction.

Some people will call him a traitor.

Some people will call him a hero.

Some people don't care about Snowden any more than they do a desperate housewife of reality TV.

I have been saying this from DAY ONE. Bravo! Not only is the discussion of this guy a distraction, but I'm of the opinion that he is a self serving blow hard.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

So which is it, Snowden is a paper hero that hasn't done anything, or Snowden is evil because he gave all of this information to the US people, the Chinese, and the Russians?

So telling people what they already knew is an epiphany ?

Not to me.

Uh, I don't really have a horse in the race if Russia or China is spying on it's own people, and I have a government that should be protecting me from Russia and China's attempts at spying on me. What Snowden has shown me is that I should be worrying about what my government is doing to spy on me.

Isn't spying the issue?

Don't see any benefit to the US populace of Snowden running in to arms of again the two largest spies in the world.

Not really sure how this makes him a paper hero. Who is supporting his status as a paper hero? The United States Government? The Chinese? The Russians? It doesn't even make sense.

Snowden supporters creating the hero status out of nothing

reply to post by jacobe001

So tell me why you think any Human in their right mind in this country would support anything about our government including their cronies (Big Banks and Big Corporations) that run the show?

Never said they should be people aren't paying attention to the object lesson from the previous 'whistle blowers'

People can't fight the US head on they need to take a page from the political playbook of fighting from within the system.

For those who pay attention to politics can see how much can be accomplished by that.

Snowden?

Has not done nothing that is going to change the status quo.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Sure you can do anything you want as long as you don't break the terms and conditions of the site, but what many don't get is why you focus on character assasinating snowden rather than the message he delivered.

I am getting tired of that crap seriously so everyone should be questioningly accept the premise of Snowden?

Sorry nothing says any has to love the guy.

You are focusing on all the negative details, based mostly on speculation, and ignoring the tremendous implications of what he revealed.

What people are ignoring is this nations history and think Snowden has something new.

I think you mean well because I have read your posts here on ATS for years, but somehow have an unhealthy fixation against russia and china. You fear them more than you fear our tyrannical government. If he stayed in the usa he would have been dead or locked up as a make believe traitor. You do want martyrs or heros?

As screwed up as this country is there is no place better, and sorry to repeat manning is getting a trial.

reply to post by neo96


Fine.

What kind of whisteblowers do you want?

At what network do you want them to reveal classified info at?

How should people pay attention?

Please list all the variables of your ideal whistleblowing strategy so I can send it to them.

Dude you are trolling for sure.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Todzer

 

You care enough to start a thread to try and discredit him

And

People not allowed to start threads on here?

Sure you can do anything you want as long as you don't break the terms and conditions of the site, but what many don't get is why you focus on character assasinating snowden rather than the message he delivered.

You are focusing on all the negative details, based mostly on speculation, and ignoring the tremendous implications of what he revealed.

I think you mean well because I have read your posts here on ATS for years, but somehow have an unhealthy fixation against russia and china. You fear them more than you fear our tyrannical government. If he stayed in the usa he would have been dead or locked up as a make believe traitor. You do want martyrs or heros?

Actually, if Snowden had stayed in the is state he worked in, and had leaked the information. He'd be in a lot less criminal position than he is in now. I'm not sure if the laptops in his possession are his own, or are property of the NSA or his companies. But the data in them does not belong to him, if it is classified, or propriety to the company he worked for.

In any case, he fled across the border of where he resided or leaked from. Which was a criminal act, made worse by the jurisdictional limits of crossing a state line. When he fled the country completely, his actions while in another country and by releasing secret or sensitive information to foreign nationals, was an act of espionage at the very least, if not treasonous.

Had he turned himself in, in a highly public or media populated area, while in the State where he made the leak; there would be a record of how he was treated and his arrest. Following on that line, his lawyers would have access to Snowden at that time and he would be able to confirm his well being. But he did none of those things. WHich is indicative of his intent to commit crimes and treason.

Snowden's flight from the country and his sharing information with foreign nationals, was and is a criminal act.

Sure it might have been noble of him to raise the issue, but his actions after that point are not noble or even heroic, they were criminal.

No traitor to this country will ever be a hero in my book. (That includes Manning.)
M.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

So which is it, Snowden is a paper hero that hasn't done anything, or Snowden is evil because he gave all of this information to the US people, the Chinese, and the Russians?

So telling people what they already knew is an epiphany ?

Not to me.

Uh, I don't really have a horse in the race if Russia or China is spying on it's own people, and I have a government that should be protecting me from Russia and China's attempts at spying on me. What Snowden has shown me is that I should be worrying about what my government is doing to spy on me.

Isn't spying the issue?

Don't see any benefit to the US populace of Snowden running in to arms of again the two largest spies in the world.

Not really sure how this makes him a paper hero. Who is supporting his status as a paper hero? The United States Government? The Chinese? The Russians? It doesn't even make sense.

Snowden supporters creating the hero status out of nothing

These are the reasons you aren't making sense.

1. Snowden informed the United States populace of spying. If he told us what we already know, he didn't do anything wrong.

2. He ran to China and Russia because he knew the government would be after him. If he didn't do anything against the government, they wouldn't be after him.

3. Snowden supporters are people that believe spying is wrong and that this person did a service to the country by informing us of what the government was doing. If we already knew the details, he wouldn't be important.

You aren't making sense because you are saying that Snowden either did or didn't do something wrong. He either gave away secrets or didn't give away anything. Your posts are unintelligible at worst and contradictory at best. You claim people are making too big of a deal about him.. in a thread you have made to create a bigger deal out of him. I just don't understand your motivations and you simply refuse to elaborate on your position in any meaningful way and simply insist that you already have done so and quote bits of previous posts that aren't even complete thoughts or sentences.

reply to post by Moshpet


The only one committing espionage was the NSA, which is part of the government, and because it violates the fourth amendment any contract signed is automatically invalidated. The government has no legal case against him and simply is trying to smear him as much as possible with nonsense.

Spying on the enemy is different. I care not what russia, china, north korea do with their own citizens. that is their affairs and they can deal with that themselves. But the american media has been boasting now for decades that america is land of the free and home of the brave, while at the same time committing espionage against its own citizens.

If you don't get this then you are just as hopeless as neo96 is.