The pain inflicted upon the American people is above partisanship. It's about FOOD now.

reply to post by junglimogli


You obviously have no idea what the definition of Capitalism is, go back to school.

Originally posted by Carreau
I ask this question in all seriousness. Have we as a population become so cynical of our own government that we argue an all or nothing proposition with a government program. Have we admitted that our leadership is so inept that there is no way to run a competent welfare/support system without mass fraud/waste/abuse.

Is it not possible to have a welfare/food stamp/disability program for the truly deserving (illness, injured, veteran, destitute) and not support the "Trailer Princess and Ghetto Queens"? Are we that far gone? I ask your opinion, because if we are then there really isn't anything more to say or debate.

The USA was built on individualism, violence and slavery—not philanthropy and welfare.

The legacy of the Founding Fathers is one of independence, not inter-dependence or co-dependence. It's every man for himself, with no free lunches.

That's what they wanted. So that's what you've got.

Originally posted by Sankari
Americans have consistently voted against free universal healthcare and any increase in welfare payments or minimum wages.

Americans have consistently rejected such policies as 'socialist', claiming they will result in the destruction of everything which has made the USA what she is today.

Americans have consistently mocked European nations where these benefits—and others like them—are taken for granted.

Conclusion: Americans got what they wanted. I suggest your view represents a very small minority.

No, our voice and needs are not being represented by the few hundred people that are ELECTED to do just that. There is no way that they can speak for all of us. The american people never get to VOTE on the topics at hand.

Thats what "OUR" representatives do for us.....

Our system is broken pure and simple. There are an ever increasing number of us that see this.

Truth is there is no way out reps are voicing the true opinion of THE PEOPLE.

We do not have adequate representation pure and simple.

reply to post by Sankari

So that's what you've got.

That's is not what we have. Get on a plane and live here for a year you might learn something instead of posting ignorant replies. You're embarrassing your countrymen with every post.

reply to post by Carreau


As a society? No... I don't believe we're that far gone at all. In honesty, I think there is a segment we're all aware exists and existed long before the hard times came. That segment is your "Welfare Queen" type and are best characterized by asking, not how many years they have taken benefits....but how many generations down a family line they have been taking benefits. That is a fair area to look hard at. Also, as a society, I think the majority of people can openly admit to seeing a serious and very real criminal element for fraud within all of the programs here.

A recent story even had a woman burying her own mother, dead from natural causes, in the backyard ....to continue collecting the checks her Mom had been properly entitled to. For some, there is no bottom and depravity knows absolutely no bounds at all.

Society and Politicians work at cross purposes today though. Society, in general, seeks solutions and an end to specific problems as they are looked at. Politicians seek to band-aid those problems for publicity points and votes....yet never fully solve them. After all, why destroy a gift that keeps on giving? What gave a bump in the polls to band-aid today will give another bump 4 years from now ...while accusing the other side of not doing enough and keeping a straight face.

So, to your very good question? I simply think it depends on which area we look at. People, as those who are just living their lives and raising their families or politicians whose very career and future rest with managing but not solving problems? Hell of a way to run a nation, isn't it?

reply to post by Carreau


BUT BUT....the grass is always greener on the other side.

Originally posted by shaneslaughta
The american people never get to VOTE on the topics at hand.

Name six topics 'at hand' which you've never had a chance to vote on.

Truth is there is no way out reps are voicing the true opinion of THE PEOPLE.

But who decides what 'the true opinion of THE PEOPLE' is?

You? You and your mates? Some other people? Blind Bob under the bridge? Slippery Neville, who runs the drugstore on 43rd and Main?

The moto of ATS is Deny Ignorance, I see a lot of Ignorance - seeing the world in only black and white.

Welfare is not the thing that is bankrupting USA. Total costs for all kinds of welfare are 420 billion- 120 billion of it on food assistance ; total costs for defense are 856 billion - 20 billion are spent on air conditioning in Middle East... ; nearly 200 billion - 1/4 of the health care costs - goes to treating obesity-related diseases.

2 billion is nearly nothing compared to the size of US budget. Military expenses are expecting to rise 16 billion during the next 10 years for example.


Many seem to be believing the myth that high welfare is bankrupting countries. When we take a look at different countries there seems to be anomaly with the argument - countries with highest welfares and social security net tend to have lower public debts.

www.economist.com...
www.social-europe.eu...
www.huffingtonpost.com...


There are and will always be people taking advantage of the system in any country, whether by being the baby-machine or just taking welfare without need. Yet, majority of people receiving welfare are in true need - low-paid families with poor education. The one´s taking advantage of the system are usually good at it and easily make the situation seem much worse. I believe this 2 billion cut will serve no good - the ones who cheat will still cheat, while some families in true need might not qualifyfor the SNAP anymore. Is it worth to punish everybody else for the mistakes of a few? You do not like strong background checks as these punish the one´s who do not cheat, yet you want everybody else get punished because a few are cheating the system.


What is funny, is the fact that so many conservatives are bashing the welfare system, while conservative states take the most advantage over it... Of the 20 states receiving the most welfare, 16 are Republican dominated / conservative states based on the information from businessinsider. www.businessinsider.com...

Just look around the world, take a look at the countries with the strongest social safety networks and then say that strong welfare is always bankrupting the states. Take a look at the budgets and compare the size of the debt to other countries. Currently it seems you are ignoring all the other wasting and focusing on the thing you do not like. It is like a person wanting to lose weight ordering Big Mac with diet coke - making minimal cuts in insignificant areas, while ignoring the real reasons behind the problem.

reply to post by Kgnow


you sir have no idea the real truth of things . yes what you refer to happens occasionally. but the realreason people are on food stamps is because of lack of decent paying jobs . in my community there is an abundance of labor but the local facrories send scouts to mexico to recruit unskilled labor to fill their postions the us goverment lets them do this. well you say they can work on farms wrong because farmers either onl work their family or use migrant workers. the few jobs available are in fast food or walmart . i know what i speak five years ago thats what my company started doing and it is sickening working beside a mexican doing same job you are doing for same pay and the take home 900 dollars to your 500 because they pay no taxes or social security.. when there are no jobs available what are people supposed to do for food . we all remember what happened to woman in france who said let the peasants eat cake!

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by Sankari

 

That's is not what we have. Get on a plane and live here for a year you might learn something instead of posting ignorant replies. You're embarrassing your countrymen with every post.

Oh, it's definitely what you have. I saw it when I lived in Texas for a while last year, and I'll see it again when I fly to Chicago next week.

You can even see it on ATS. Just click right here and read the first post.

Originally posted by proteus33
reply to post by Kgnow

 

you sir have no idea the real truth of things . yes what you refer to happens occasionally. but the realreason people are on food stamps is because of lack of decent paying jobs . in my community there is an abundance of labor but the local facrories send scouts to mexico to recruit unskilled labor to fill their postions the us goverment lets them do this. well you say they can work on farms wrong because farmers either onl work their family or use migrant workers. the few jobs available are in fast food or walmart .

This is called capitalism. It made the USA what she is today.

Americans spent decades fighting against socialism and communism to ensure capitalism would become the most powerful force in the world. That's an important legacy. Never forget it.

reply to post by Sankari


I dont have to explain what topics we didn't get to vote on......quite simply,

The Reps are the voice, they take issues turn them in to bills to pass through the house of reps.
Then the reps take that to congress to pass as laws.

No where after our state reps take the issues to congress do THE PEOPLE get a VOTE.

Its congress and all their cronies that vote on the happenings in this country.

But if you got the money you could buy congress.

reply to post by Sankari


Now you're the second ignorant member who doesn't know the definition of the word Capitalism, get a dictionary, the system we have is not Capitalism.

But if you got the money you could buy congress.

edit on 20-6-2013 by shaneslaughta because: (no reason given)

Think about this. The top ten wealthiest people in the world have approx. $508billion. If each one threw just $1B into a slush pot, that money would give every senator, rep, and the president $18,656,716 EACH!!!!

Originally posted by Sankari

Americans spent decades fighting against socialism and communism to ensure capitalism would become the most powerful force in the world. That's an important legacy. Never forget it.

edit on 20/6/13 by Sankari because: typo...

Wow you have a skewed sense of american history.

We fought and won against out oppressors because of taxation and control.

We started our own government to get away from that.

It was not until FDR that it all went sideways.

JFK knew it and tried to stop the fed before the monster grew arms and legs and roots.
Look what he ended up with for his trouble.

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by junglimogli

 

You obviously have no idea what the definition of Capitalism is, go back to school.

Oh great ..another one .. who died and made you judge?
Take your meds and go back to sleep ..

There is something to be considered here in sheer numbers and raw data. There are serious misconceptions about just what the dollars are here and what is actually involved in the entitlement programs. That is precisely why I spent the long period of time to make these and the 8 others that go with the full set. However, these two are relevant to this thread with the first one being directly connected more than anything else.



Now, you'll notice that projections from the OMB's budget figures just last year put 101 Billion as the total combined cost of ALL food programs taken as a whole. Not just SNAP. It's less than 20% of what is directly budgeted to the Pentagon to kill people. It's not a bad bargain to save people and prevent open unrest in our streets, as only true hunger really can manage.

In terms of other entitlement programs? Lets keep perspective as to where food programs fit on the chain. It's important when considering why this move by the GOP pissed me off so badly.



So, while billions are never "small" amounts to anyone, nor should they ever be looked at as negligible totals? The true costs in context to what is being spent elsewhere is a pittance compared to the good THIS one does in feeding people. If the option is to either wail away with a machete to cut costs.....or accept some fraud to see the people who need it remain fed? I'll grumble and I'll bitch about it, but I'll take the fraud and wish they'd do something about it. The Machete approach isn't just cutting "waste", it'll end up killing people. Either directly by illness related to malnutrition in the worst cases ...or more likely, as a product of the desperation which actual, REAL hunger brings. A condition rarely known in the United States, where even our poor have weight problems.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Thanks wabbit good charts

I think the only reason people haven't stood up yet it just like you said, they still have food.
Once they start cutting food stamps programs, implement Obama care....the employers are going to do some more hourly chopping.

That in turn is going to hurt more and more Americans, its a loose loose situation.


Oh and according to your charts, there is less and less hospitals, and more people who need insurance.
That to me looks like the division of wealth is shrinking.

I'm saddened to hear this as I know personally how much some people depend on food stamps just to make it by . It's obvious America no longer is the dream we once envisioned and has bee overun by corporate greed but when reality kicks in well all look at each other and finally see we are all skin and bones, we are all humans made equal except for the depths of our thoughts and like animals when given superiority they eat first and we get the scraps , I think it's time we took over as The people's Justice and finally do something about these uppercrust moochers because when # hits the fan they are poor taking our taxes, our lives , and pretending they earned it when they had their sheep do all the herding while they just hide in luxury. We aren't at rock bottom but the Gov is one hell of an anchor tryin to surpress us . I wish it was easy to do something but its not and going against the flow is impossible .. But you have to remember there are hundreds of billions of us commoners and only a handful of those sick and overpowered . overall I wish everyone luck and hope the best for those losing more then just stamps and food , We are The People and as one We are The World , I would hate to see anyone fall hard from this.

Companies are already cutting . My group had 3 people 2 years ago there's now me and I still support the department of 90 people. The pay and bennies are good and this years pay raise whs the icing on the cake