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The three unclean spirits

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posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



Jesus quotes the OT in order to refute the arguments made against him by the Pharisees and others, including the devil.


Yes, and the argument against him was that he was not God as they knew him from the Old Testament, when he was, based on all of the scriptures he cited.



edit on 17-6-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by truejew
 

. . .the Old Testament God is not YHWH/Baal . . .

Right, all you have to do is look at the Septuagint, and it never says anything like Yahweh, and always says "god" or "lord".
"YHWH" could have been added later, after the Greek version was made, and the newer priesthood was in place who decided on their own convention to put a god name into the scripture in the Hebrew.
And like you say, the pronunciation, of "Yahweh" would have been a Medieval invention.



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


YHWH was listed in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Go back and find the dating for them.



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 

Yes, and the argument against him was that he was not God, when he was, based on all of the scriptures he cited.
There was never any argument like that.
What was in dispute was what sort of demon that he was possessed with that made him do and say the things that he did.
Jesus' answer was that he himself came from heaven.
That does not automatically make him THE God, but it would make him a god.
The God, as in the Supreme Being, or the god of everything, would be of some scale that nothing could contain Him, so there is no one form that someone could look at and have it be the entirety of God.

edit on 17-6-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 09:00 AM
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Here, let me help both of you...

"Psalm 138 from the Dead Sea Scrolls"

www.ancient-hebrew.org...



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



There was never any argument like that.
What was in dispute was what sort of demon that he was possessed with that made him do and say the things that he did.


John 10:30-33

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 

YHWH was listed in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Go back and find the dating for them.
Using the link you provided foe Ancient Hebrew, I linked from that site to the Great Isaiah Scroll D I R E C T O R Y, where it says that it is dated to 100 BC, which would be after the Septuagint.
There are actual ancient glyphs with YW's that some scholars interpret to be the same thing as what people today think the Hebrew Bible says, but if so, it would have been one of many gods in ancient Canaan.
edit on 17-6-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


That depends on who you choose to listen to...


Pieces of the Isaiah Scroll have been carbon-14 dated at least four times, giving calibrated date ranges between 335-324 BC and 202-107 BC; there have also been numerous paleographic and scribal dating studies placing the scroll around 150-100 BC.[2]


en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 
Where is the argument against him that he was not God?
John says,

"Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him . . ."

When was the earlier time for there to be an "again"?
Look at verse 20, above that part that you quoted,

"Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. . . ."

At the Feast of Dedication, they were asking him to make a yes or no statement of whether or not he was the Messiah. Instead, he was describing his relationship with God, and when called on it, he moved his scheme forward to further engage his audience into a discussion of what the messianic mission would be. That was something that they did not want to get into because they would have been immediately persuaded by it into accepting Jesus as a match to those expectations.
Rather than to do that, they went back to the older discussion, which was that he was possessed by some sort of madness that made him blaspheme, and so had to be removed from the temple and probably killed once outside the sacred courtyard.
edit on 17-6-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Read John, chapters 8 and 10.

Read the verses for what they say and not for what you want them to say.



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
Again, that comes from the "Jews" who Jesus preached against and who crucified Christ. They are not a credible source.

The Jews are not a credible source on Hebrew, Jewish history and Judaism, but your bigoted non-scholar Gary Reckart is? Are you kidding me?



We are not discussing whether or not they are a credible source on Hebrew, we are discussing whether they are a credible source on the name of God when for thousands of years they have been involved in idolatry and would go any distance to cover it up.

Let's keep this discussion about the issues and avoid the personal attacks.



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by truejew
 



I do not deny that, but the Old Testament God is not YHWH/Baal as you claim. The Old Testament God is Jesus Christ, EhJeh delivers.


Every Bible scholar agrees that YHWH is the Old Testament God.

You're the only one who refuses to see it.

In essence, all you've done is contradict yourself and claim that Jesus is Ba'al, since Jesus is YHWH.

If you deny one, you just denied the other, just like the Israelites did.

John 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.



Jesus Christ is Jesus Christ, not YHWH.

Scripture says that someone who denies that it was Jesus Christ come in the flesh, like those who teach it was YHWH, are antichrist



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by truejew
Let's keep this discussion about the issues and avoid the personal attacks.

The "issue" is you not citing sources for your claims, and yet you never seem to want to address that particular issue.



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


We have already discussed that the Dead Sea Scrolls are not a credible source.



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by Deetermined
 


We have already discussed that the Dead Sea Scrolls are not a credible source.

They are far more credible than anything that you've cited so far.



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
Let's keep this discussion about the issues and avoid the personal attacks.

The "issue" is you not citing sources for your claims, and yet you never seem to want to address that particular issue.


Again, do you have a credible source for YHWH? My sources are the credible manuscripts that say Adonai, EhJeh, or Kurios.



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by truejew
 


Give us a link to those manuscripts, please.



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
Let's keep this discussion about the issues and avoid the personal attacks.

The "issue" is you not citing sources for your claims, and yet you never seem to want to address that particular issue.


Again, do you have a credible source for YHWH? My sources are the credible manuscripts that say Adonai, EhJeh, or Kurios.

YHWH appears in both the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint, as well as the Silver Scrolls, all of which pre-date your supposed "credible manuscripts" that you never produce.

Since you couldn't be bothered to find a scan of YHWH in the Dead Sea Scrolls, I went and found this:


(The blue arrow is pointing at YHWH) That certainly doesn't look like it was "added after the fact", because there is natural spacing between the words -- if the scribe left a blank space there for some reason, he left the perfect amount of space for YHWH.

But let me recap -- your theory is that someone copied the entire text of the Hebrew Bible, left just the right amount of space to allow someone later to write in YHWH all over the place, someone did so, and then they buried their falsified version, not to be discovered for about 2000 years?

Yeah, that makes soooooooo much more sense than that someone transliterated the word/letters in a later translation.


You are a non-credible non-critical thinking person who believes and rejects evidence solely on whether it agrees with you or not.


edit on 17-6-2013 by adjensen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


It is common knowledge. Look up the manuscripts yourself.



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by truejew
 


Now read that last paragraph again. The term "Adonai" is a reference for YHWH (Yahweh)!!!


As I already said In a previous post, there is no credible proof of that. There are no credible scrolls that show us that YHWH was replaced with Adonai. All there is is the word of the "Jews". Jesus preached against them. They even crucified Christ. Their word is not credible.


The Congregation of the wicked (synogogue of satan) crucified Christ.

Psalm 22:16-18

16 For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;
17 I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.

Who did these things?




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