Islamic Cleric Decrees Rape is OK during Syrian War

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

There ya' go. Excellent and well thought out post.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
Not sure why people think this is limited to any one religious text?

Which is why I said in the opening post .... be it Catholic or Protestant or Muslim ... so called 'holy men' who do these sick things are awful.

the Koran is an unoriginal, mostly plagiarized text.

A lot of it is poorly transposed from other religions. You can find Summerian and Egyptian texts in the Old Testament as well ... with names changed and adopted by the jews but still the same ancient stories.

Originally posted by wildtimes
And NATO wants to send guns to these raping killers!!!

So called 'holy men' calling for the rape of women who don't believe like they do. It's disgusting. And when the news reports that John McCain was over there having meetings with the 'rebels' ... and that the USA is supporting the 'rebels' .. it kinda turns your stomach .. doesn't it?

Assad is bad news. But those who John McCain are supporting are probably worse.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I think what gets me is when it becomes a recognized tactic or a formal approach within or against a population. One rape in one back alley is evil..and I truly feel THAT crime fits the evil definition to. Few worse things in this life, IMO. Yet..what do we call it when it's open season, as declared by this Cleric or by battlefield commanders in Africa, for example?

Well I think for some time there have been calls to have military personal convicted of rape to have them charged under war crimes, that is essentialy what it is, to what extent this is actively pursued by commanders in the field will always be fairly unclear due to the lack of traceability in a war zone.

This is an article from the Washington Post concerning the mass rapes carried out by Congolese soldiers trained by the U.S military.

U.S.-trained Congolese troops committed rapes and other atrocities, U.N. says

Would be quite something if this practice is actively being taught as a tactic in modern warfare,

from the article,

On Monday, the State Department acknowledged that some U.S.-trained soldiers “may be implicated in these rapes,”

The training program, they said, emphasized respect for human rights and the need to protect civilians, particularly from sexual violence.

Scary stuff to be honest.

reply to post by FlyersFan


It does more than 'kinda' turn my stomach. It makes me so sick I almost wish I'd never started investigating or paying attention. I didn't follow politics or war at all - until 9/11 - well, I mean I started to think about "domestic policy" when my daughter was born, and had written to Congressmen about concerns...but nothing like what I see and read now.

I grew up during the Cold War and many of the Vietnam veterans were the older siblings of my 'cohort.' I just wasn't interested, and I just hoped my brothers wouldn't get drafted. It didn't have a direct impact on my young life except for being aware that they (the veterans) were messed up, and riots were going on in my hometown (university town) -

Not until decades later did I really start to get it. In many ways I thank my parents for not focusing on it with us kids around - kids now, however, are VERY MUCH aware of what's going on - especially those old enough to remember 9/11 itself. My kids were in grade school. This country has never been the same since - among civilians, I mean.

Youth and children were VERY MUCH impacted by 9/11 - kids now know WAY, WAY more than my generation did about world events and politics (thanks to the internet and media outlets). It's been challenging raising two of them to try to understand the mess this world is in and keep them "on trajectory" to focus on education, family, and peaceful goal-setting. It makes me very, very sad.

Dear OP,

There is no need to fan anti-muslim hatred here on ATS.

You only show your ignorance about Islam and thus the continued spewing of such by the ignorant to the misinformed to become canon fodders for hate upon society.

Despite many sunni muslims attempts here to set things right, yet folks like you just cannot seem to be enlightened. Is your ignorance or VEILED hatred for muslims that deep?

Calm down. I only asked.

1. That cleric is NOT a holy man, and never had been. Under TRUE Islam, no one can claim to holiness except Allah or his messengers, of which the prophet had already warn he is the last one and there will be NO MORE. Anyone else is an apostate. Muslim honor those whom are true to the religion and to muslims, and never worship them as above man or community, except for Iran, whereby the leader is a god-on-Earth.

There is a difference between King, leader and a god wannabe. A king or leader is only a mortal being, acknowledged by mankind since civilisation began. As a mortal, he can make mistakes and correct his errors to progress, or mankind will teach him to correct his mistakes to progress.

A god wannabe is a different textbook altogether, more so when he uses religion to impose his control and domination over others. As a higher being, it means he CANNOT and WILL NOT make mistakes, and NO ONE can or is allowed to challenge him, even if everyone knows he had committed mistakes.

He had been created as a god and supported by the masses, either by force or by being brainwashed. Fortunately, in Islam, there is no other gods except Allah, so taught by prophet Muhammad.

That cleric is only an iman, a teacher of Islam, one of many, and in some cases whereby in isolated areas, even a village idiot can be appointed as one, if he can just read a few lines or incapable of farming, herding.that the rest of the community is fully engaged upon for basic survival.


2. That cleric is just one and DOES NOT represent the worldwide community of muslims, nor allowed to issue any fatawa. It has to come from the community and leaders of the nation or nations.

Thus for you to reference him and using his idiotic words to target Islam is either total or just plain wilful ignorance on your part.


3. Mankind needed time to progress and evolve, and thus many of the issues that they had to deal with and the solutions that they use would be atrocious in our enlightened modern world of international rule of law, national constitutions, democratic institutions of check and balances, trained security forces and such.

Thus, do not take ancient mainstream religious text and qoute it out of context. It is the principles that forms the moral and ethical guidelines to guide our progress and evolution.

There will be instances whereby a situation would seem to require different application of principles, and thus the need for a COMMUNITY of elected persons to make the wise and right decision as solution to issues, with the free will that we humankind had been given.

My hope is that before you or anyone else start another muslim community bashing thread, do read up well first, or it will only make yourself look ...mentally challenged. ATS is not a hate site

Cheers.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

What IS it with some cultures and rape, anyway?

It has nothing to do with "some cultures", it is a means to motivate the loosing side in any way, to get their fighters to be motivated to do their utmost as a final measure, since the "reward" if they are successful will be the women they get to rape with the "backing" of their own leaders, thus without the usual repercussions.

It is a tool, used by the desperate, simply put.

Soldiers need motivation, and most are dumb brutes (otherwise they wouldn´t be a soldier in the first place), so sadly, this tool works.

Understanding that the US has its own set of corrupt leaders,.
The regions related to Islam seriously have no respect for women.
Didnt the Egyptian cleric recently make into law the right for husbands
to commit necrophilia with their women?
The entire mentality of the leaders in that region is just retarded.

Originally posted by Kgnow
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Hello FlyersFan.

The problem goes far beyond imams, sheikhs, or religious leaders. It is actually allah and the Qur'an that sanctifies rape:

""And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." [Qur'an 4:24]


It is actually allah, the Qur'an, and Muhammad that has made lawful the keeping of slaves and the forceful rape of those slaves. This edict alone illustrates Islam's sexists, tyrannical, and oppressive ideology.

Peace.

It says the same thing in the bible. So does that expose the Christians sexists, tyrannical, and oppressive ideology?

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Imams, sheikhs, and muftis may not have absolute say in Islam, but allah does, and he thinks it is ok to rape slaves and prisoners of war from jihad who become slaves:

"And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."
[Qur'an 4:24]

reply to post by NeoVain


I was afraid the reasoning went something like that.

I should clarify that in saying 'some cultures', I don't mean to say the entire culture is fine with it. At the same time, some cultures tolerate this while others do not. Show me a U.S. Solider who is known to have raped and I'll be shocked and join you in outrage if he didn't get charged and prosecuted for it.

I try and imagine an American leader coming out and saying, with any degree of respect by position at all, that U.S. Troops should feel free to rape whatever they find on two legs across the battlefield, as they come across it. It doesn't take long to imagine that guy losing whatever career he ever had ...and possibly, his life in these troubled times. That would be our cultural way of reacting to ignorance at truly dangerous levels.

I guess it's the lack of similar, immediate and unquestioned outrage from other regions where these things are said and are presented as serious statements to the public that leaves me nonplussed.

(There were a couple Sunni Clerics which made very similar statements to the Syrian Rebels last year too...it seems to be a theme and I really fear for the Syrian girls in newly captured areas)

reply to post by buster2010

It says the same thing in the bible. So does that expose the Christians sexists, tyrannical, and oppressive ideology?

LORD YHWH in the Old Testament is indeed tyrannical, oppressive, sexist, and genocidal.

I'm not in the business to propagate one religion above another, nor do I justify one religious evil for another religious evil.

Wrong is wrong period.

But in this thread we are specifically discussing Allah's commandment that ordains rape. If another thread appears that discusses ordained rape of other religions, then I would be condemning them too.

Stay on topic, this thread is discussing Islam and a muslim cleric's fatwa of rape based upon Qur'anic evidence.

Originally posted by Tuttle
I dunno man, but the West seems to have fairly pandemic levels of rape every year, I guess we are just kinda sick that way.

But you don't have high profile, so called leaders, spouting that it is acceptable to do it. You're talking criminal cases in every instance, in defence on someone of status calling for it to followers of his teachings.

And every time there is an imam or sheikh caught saying something obscene, it's washed away with people saying they're not representative of a majority. Yet clearly there is some call for them, if they can rise to prominence within their own communities, in so many places.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

There will be instances whereby a situation would seem to require different application of principles, and thus the need for a COMMUNITY of elected persons to make the wise and right decision as solution to issues, with the free will that we humankind had been given.

My hope is that before you or anyone else start another muslim community bashing thread, do read up well first, or it will only make yourself look ...mentally challenged. ATS is not a hate site

Yes, several Muslims here have tried to clear up misconceptions about what Islam "really stands for".

But the FACT IS THEY ARE SLAUGHTERING each other in Syria. So, is Syria's entire population "mistaken Muslims"? How do you explain what is happening there, and what do YOU suggest be done about it?

I don't think Britain and France sending "small arms" to "the rebels" is a good idea. The rest of the EU wants to extend the embargo on providing arms. Those who want to send arms "to level the playing field" are very much aware that 'small arms intended only for civilian protection' is just talk. There would be NO CONTROL once they're smuggled in.

Others are calling for "heavy artillery" to be given to the rebels - like tanks and shoulder-rockets, to take on the government's air strikes. Some think it's already too late. Some say that the "offer to send small arms" is really only a tactic to encourage "talks" - but Russia and Iran WILL step up, and it's become a war by proxy.
CNN: EU ends Syria arms embargo -- but will it make any difference?

WHY ARE THE SYRIANS fighting?

WHERE are the "peaceful, real" Muslims? Why is the Middle East so hostile and out of control? No matter how many ATS members come on here to try to clear things up (which I do appreciate) - the ongoing mess in the world cannot be denied. The blame belongs SOMEWHERE....

I think it's ATS's obligation to get to the truth. Happy claims of Islam being a "peaceful religion" aren't doing a damned thing to stop the worldwide slaughters.

So - how do YOU explain it? I've acknowledge Western interference as being wrong - and Western 'tactics' as being wrong. So, do you think the warring sects of Islam are being played against each other? Or what.

I want to know not what "pure, peaceful, correct Islam" is - I want to know WHY SO MANY behave like barbarians in spite of that - and how it continues to erupt into conflicts in the Middle East. Explain that, please.

FlyersFan,
Sorry for derailing. Hope I wasn't too far off-topic.

"Rape" being used as a weapon of war is depraved and backward. "Arming rebels" and inciting hatred is a modern-day technique equally as disturbing.

reply to post by Kgnow


Allah is WRONG. The book should be edited and revised. What a lame attempt to "justify" ordained rape. Fail.

And "text books" in the secular world get REGULAR updates and revisions - but the "holy books" are immune to that, even as humanity outgrows them and learns more about reality and 'civilization.' That's why they need to go. They can be considered "classics", like Plato or any other philosophers - as representative of PAST THINKING.

They DO NOT apply to today's world - and instead they cause PROBLEMS.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
There is no need to fan anti-muslim hatred here on ATS.

:shk: So ... exposing the pro-rape rants of an Imam suddenly means that this is an anti-Muslim/hate thread? Riiiiiiight. Well .. seekeroftruth .. how about you actually seek the truth and not close your eyes to the fact that this person said what he said .. and it's disgusting that he said it.

You only show your ignorance about Islam and thus the continued spewing of such by the ignorant to the misinformed to become canon fodders for hate upon society.

Dude .. HE SAID IT. Don't shoot the messenger with this PC crap ... the dude said it.

My hope is that before you or anyone else start another muslim community bashing thread,

The more nonsense like this you spew .. the more you look like you agree with this Imam that rape should be used as a tool of war against those who don't believe the same as him. Congratulations.

it will only make yourself look ...mentally challenged. ATS is not a hate site

Sure looks like you hate women .. otherwise you wouldn't be attempting deflection with this nonsense and would address the issue ... which is that this Imam is calling for rape to be used against those who don't believe like he does.

Originally posted by buster2010
It says the same thing in the bible. So does that expose the Christians sexists, tyrannical, and oppressive ideology?

Moses was one of the worst. He told his followers not to commit adultery and not to murder ... but then went on to tell them to mass murder all the men, women and children that were their 'enemies' .. but to keep the young virgin girls so the soldiers could have their sex toys. Disgusting ... and hypocritical.

Originally posted by winofiend
But you don't have high profile, so called leaders, spouting that it is acceptable to do it.]

Not just 'acceptable' ... but that it's what God wants. Having an Imam issue a statement like that means that supposedly he's telling people what God (allah) wants and that God wants the men to go rape the women who don't believe like they do.

reply to post by winofiend

But you don't have high profile, so called leaders, spouting that it is acceptable to do it

Was this supposed Islamic Cleric a "high profile" leader?

Pretty sure he is not. Pretty sure he is just random madman from Jordan the press has decided to make a story out of because he upped a video onto Youtube. But hey I could be wrong, the guy could be a real mover and shaker in the scene of international politics, I dunno, I doubt it though. So your point if fairly moot, sorry!