Islamic Cleric Decrees Rape is OK during Syrian War

reply to post by Tuttle

But hey I could be wrong, the guy could be a real mover and shaker in the scene of international politics, I dunno, I doubt it though. So your point if fairly moot, sorry!

No, sorry! The point is NOT moot.

It makes NO DIFFERENCE if he's involved in or a mover and shaker of international politics, or not --
If he has a following of people who saw his vid or heard his message, and they act on it it is still damaging rhetoric. You think those rebel forces are "properly trained" in "international politics" or "human rights"? Uh, NO, THEY ARE NOT. And THEY are the ones that wind up doing the most vile things.

The point is not moot at all.

reply to post by wildtimes


Hmmm I wonder how many lunatic videos I can find on Youtube spouting and condoning all kinds of barbarism, then use those videos as a way to discredit and lie about their entire religion, race and culture at the same time. Tar them all the same brush I say, that seems like a really smart and definitely not an ignorant thing to do. What do I care about context?

It makes NO DIFFERENCE if he's involved in or a mover and shaker of international politics, or not

Actualy it does, it matters a lot because that will directly affect how many people listen to him or act on what he has to say.

reply to post by Kgnow


Do not attempt to qoute from the Koran if you do not COMPREHEND each and every verse in it. as well as the era when that qoute was made.

In the past, slavery was acceptable, simply because the world was young, human population was small and resources in abundance that could have fed all.

However, education was limited and technology not yet progressed and thus slavery then was one means to ensure that mankind could be fed and survived, more so upon the enemies of the state whom chosed war instead of intelligent diplomacy and lost. Equally, slavery was a form of survival for failed states, whose citizens sold themselves as teachers, scribes, etc in order to survive, such as greeks during roman times. And also for tribes facing greying society and need new young to beef up the population.

However slaves were not meant to be such for life, nor their children. 7 years were the limit and at every jubilee year, slaves were mandatorily freed practised by civilised nations.

BUT all that changed when mankind progress and evolved. Slavery is no longer necessary, nor is condone in our world today, for we have the tech and the population to progress and evolve with our planet's abundance.

Do you think any nation can get away with conquest and imposition of slavery in our modern world? It's a no brainer.

The Koran and other mainstream religious texts are only principles which the basis for moral and ethical guidelines are derive from. What that was contextual back down may not be relevant in today's times, but its principles will remain the same - for example:- captured enemies of wars -made into prisoners serving time and labour. Children and womjen turned into citizens and contribute to society.

No one needs to stay ignorant or mentally challenged. I hope you too will not enjoy that position.

Originally posted by wildtimes

WHY ARE THE SYRIANS fighting?

I think it's ATS's obligation to get to the truth. Happy claims of Islam being a "peaceful religion" aren't doing a damned thing to stop the worldwide slaughters.

So - how do YOU explain it? I've acknowledge Western interference as being wrong - and Western 'tactics' as being wrong. So, do you think the warring sects of Islam are being played against each other? Or what.

I want to know not what "pure, peaceful, correct Islam" is - I want to know WHY SO MANY behave like barbarians in spite of that - and how it continues to erupt into conflicts in the Middle East. Explain that, please.

edit on 2-6-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

1. It is good you ask why about Islam, for that is where your journey to truths and realities will begin, instead of being spoonfed with BS by others who agree to your ignorances whom are equally as ignorant such as the OP over the islamic religion and yet saw fit to rattle her mouth off. and freely accuse anyone else who disagree with her ignorances as haters of women or supporters of sexual indignities to women.


2. This thread has a topic and I would prefer to stick to the topic - which is about the words of one mortal or a few mortals sensationally portray by the OP as 'holy man', than to GENERALIZE hatred to an entire religion, or other religions, or even an entire american nation as supporters of sexual harassment and intimidations just because of one or a few nutjobs around.

Because some catholic priest were caught with sexual crimes, does it means ALL priests are guilty? Just because one or a few atheists commits murder, does it mean ALL atheists knows no morals and are murderers?

And may you do the same, with facts and figure to support such claims. or the muslim world and USA would be flooded with semen up to one's neck at the rate of sensationalism you folks such as the OP FlyersFan are propagating.

As for the Syrian war debate, I am sure there are many other threads about it which you can learn and participate in, rather than to derail this thread and use as an ammo to thrash muslims and the western solution to STOP the fighting DECISIVELY after 2 years of tragedy in Syria.

Cheers.

Originally posted by Tuttle
Was this supposed Islamic Cleric a "high profile" leader?

He doesn't have to be 'high profile' to be a sick guy.
He's a spiritual leader. People listen to him. And he's disgusting.

Originally posted by Tuttle
I wonder how many lunatic videos I can find on Youtube spouting and condoning all kinds of barbarism, then use those videos as a way to discredit and lie about their entire religion, race and culture at the same time.

So by posting the exact words of this Imam ... we are all supposedly 'discrediting and telling lies about an entire religion race and culture'?? Is that what you are saying? If so, that makes no sense. It's a conversation about what a person said. He said it. He owns it.

reply to post by FlyersFan

He doesn't have to be 'high profile' to be a sick guy. He's a spiritual leader. People listen to him. And he's disgusting.

How do you know that?, do they listen to any number of homeless "prophets" wandering the streets of major cities ranting about the end of days??

The only reason we are talking about it now is due to the fact a newspaper decided to run the article. I cannot find this guy anywhere on the internet other than the few assorted sources that are running this piece. Must have been a pretty slow day on the Syria desk to be honest if this is what they are running.

"Some madman has a video on youtube, says rapes cool, its not cool"

ORLY.

Originally posted by Tuttle
How do you know that?, do they listen to any number of homeless "prophets" wandering the streets of major cities ranting about the end of days??

He's an imam. He's a spiritual leader. Just like a person who is a priest is a spiritual leader. It doesn't matter if you or I have heard of him or if he's on the internet. He's a sicko who is supposed to be a spiritual leader. Just as the priests who were pedophiles were supposed to be spiritual leaders but were disgusting. I'm sure you never heard of most of the priests who were pedophiles until they were caught ... same with this Imam.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

Still giving a free pass to the Imam who called for rape and calling those who are discussing it the haters, eh? Okay ... I'm sure that most of ATS is capable of reading the opening post and seeing exactly what I said .. which is not anything at all like what you have just claimed.


As I said in the opening post ... be it Catholic or Protestant or Muslim or whatever .... these religious leaders who are looked to as either speaking for God or looked to with reverence ... some of them can be real sickos. And it's very sad that those in this position could have the power over others to be able to manipulate them into doing evil deeds (or give them excuses to do evil).

he is not an islamic cleric he is an extremist who is more of a danger to the average muslim then to anybody in the west......its brain washed scumbags like this that americans use to demonize nearly 1.5 billion people and who they are currently backing in syria

reply to post by wildtimes


Umm... hello?

In NOW WAY did I attempt to justify rape, nor do I defend Islam! So what the heck are you lashing out at me for?

1. The OP explains how an Islamic cleric has ordained rape in jihad.

2. Islamic apologists and defenders then came into this thread saying that one cleric's opinion does not represent Islam.

3. I then quoted the Qur'an to prove that it is their allah that makes rape lawful, not just religious clerics.



Why the heck are you saying "fail" and addressing me in such a hostile manner? I am not a Muslim. I do not agree with Islam. All I did was prove that rape is a commandment from their allah, not simply from a radical cleric.


Since you so rudely addressed me with words such as "lame" and "fail".... the only thing lame and a failure is your comprehension skills in coming to the wrong conclusions about me. Fail.

• To all Muslims and Islamic apologists:


Can you all please stop with the deception and lies!!???

You guys keep saying that the imam mentioned in the op, Sheikh Yasir al-Ajlawni, does not represent Islam.

Sheikh Yasir al-Ajlawni may not represent Islam, but allah, Muhammad, and the Qur'an does!

Islam does make slavery and rape lawful. So STOP with the lies, sugar-coating, and half-truth justifications.

Evil is evil, and the slavery and rape found in Islam makes Islam an evil religion.

"And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." [Qur'an 4:24]

War. *sigh*

War sucks. Fighting sucks.

Imagine if we fought our wars in the ME with the same abandon as those that lived there. Both Afghanistan and Iraq wars could have been over and done within a year. We come in, nuke a city or two, destroy a few villages, plant a fracking flag, salute it, and go home.

But no. We approach war with a western set of sensibilities and moralities. We try to win hearts and minds. And we fail at every step.

A cleric comes out and says rape. We find it disgusting, and rightly so.

But that's how wars are fought there. They don't have the same moral code that we do. They don't share our western sensibilities. They fight a brutal war. No heroes. No songs. It's all blood and terror and waste. Waste of life, of property, of soul.

War sucks.

reply to post by Kgnow


Nono....! I meant ALLAH is a fail!! Not you! I got your point - and was backing up your negative assessment of "Allah" and "Islam."
I agree with you! Yes, I'm hostile toward ISLAM, violent Muslims, and their beliefs about ALLAH....despite the fact that members such as babloyi and logical7 and Skorpio all have been VERY civil with me and tried their best to explain in regards to my concerns.
.
Sorry for the crossed wires. I'm on the NO-RELIGION and NO-WAR side of things here.
~w

reply to post by beezzer


Yes, it does. That is all I have to say about that.
War sucks. Muslims fight 'brutally' and without regard to rules of engagement in these "rebellion" uprisings. Western tactics are different, but deadly all the same.

I get your point though - and I think ne'er the twain shall meet in the middle - they just don't WANT it - just like the Amazonian tribes don't want it and are now being allowed to stay removed from "Western society" as their own choice - we need to stop pushing Western thinking on them. They'll never buy in, really.

The most we can hope for is an honored armistice, like in the Koreas, and hope they don't retract it later, like Kim has threatened to do. We're not going to change their thinking; and going into these stupid wars and killing people who believe in killing people is just pissing them off - it's not HELPING anyone - and even the civilians, who are still there or had to flee, would be better off if we stopped kicking the various hornets' nests and let them develop their OWN civilization, I guess - even if it means the occasional honor killing or stoning?

Whatever the answer is, we haven't found it yet, and continued conflict is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE and STUPID and DESTRUCTIVE and harming MILLIONS of people with the back-blow, fall-out, and so-called "collateral damage".

reply to post by Tuttle


You apparently don't understand mob-mentality - and the FACT remains that these warring sects DO listen to those asses, and they are not highly-skilled soldiers practiced in the "art and philosophy of war" (what an oxymoron)....

"rabble rouser" mean anything to you? VERY FEW people actually have a grasp on the finer nuances of philosophy required for GOOD LEADERSHIP.

They are trigger happy rapists willing to kill themselves and others, their own children even, for the backward "teachings" of the Qu'ran, and I'm told by the educated Muslims on ATS that "Those" Muslims are "Ignorant" and not following Islam properly.

Okay, fine. I believe you, they are ignorant. And they are ALSO barbarians and savages bent on destroying "perceived or real" enemies and tribes. OBVIOUSLY... and there is no "argument" that will un-kill all the people they've kiilled, or un-rape the women being raped or un-ruin the ruined minds of little kids surrounded by this or the devastated survivors of the HORROR of WAR.

It's ugliness beyond belief - and even just ENGAGING with them spurs it on. If we just ignore them and let them sort it out, and get busy on our own domiciles, they'll find their own "balance" and we don't HAVE to have their "resources" or "territories." The "grand plan" is NOT WORKING.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

It is good you ask why about Islam, for that is where your journey to truths and realities will begin, instead of being spoonfed with BS by others who agree to your ignorances whom are equally as ignorant such as the OP over the islamic religion and yet saw fit to rattle her mouth off. and freely accuse anyone else who disagree with her ignorances as haters of women or supporters of sexual indignities to women.

Nice deflection.

You don't have a CLUE how much research INTO ISLAM I have done already (which is available on ATS for all to see). Instead you call us "ignorant" who are appalled at what we SEE HAPPENING all over the world in the NAME OF ISLAM.

You are trying to say I'm derailing this thread - and I'm not. The TOPIC was not "sensationalisation"of the media against Islam. It is about this vile "cleric" stating to whomever will listen that rape is okay. the FACT remains that Muslims are slaughtering each other every bloody day. EVERY DAY. Telling us "but, but....Islam is Peaceful!" is useless at this point. It obviously is NOT.

reply to post by Tuttle

The only reason we are talking about it now is due to the fact a newspaper decided to run the article. I cannot find this guy anywhere on the internet other than the few assorted sources that are running this piece. Must have been a pretty slow day on the Syria desk to be honest if this is what they are running.

No, it doesn't matter how "obscure" or "crazy" this guy is. PEOPLE WILL LISTEN TO HIM. Violent people. It's a CLUE as to WHY those people behave the way they do - their "admired leaders" tell them to. And it's HAPPENING.

Sure, if everyone just blew him off like we do "Westboro Baptist Church", that'd be one thing. BUT THEY DON'T.

Deflection. The guy doesn't have to be a celebrity or "recognized" leader - but if he's a leader anywhere that people listen to, he's CAUSING VIOLENCE, not ENCOURAGING "REAL" ISLAM.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

Since ALL of the 'quotes made' are at least 1400 years moldy - they should ALL be revised and updated to reflect the CURRENT state of the world - and also FOOTNOTED to describe WHY things were done that way. Same with the 1700 year old Bible. Some schmoe who picks up a holy book and decides to twist it to his nefarious intentions will ALWAYS come along to do so.

Those books now confuse people and and are now irrelevant, and they would be best "withdrawn" from "modern teaching tools", or "current thinking" references - religious or otherwise.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

I'm pretty sure that Moslem religious leaders are not the only ones to have made crazy statements.

Not sure why you would say that rape accusations against American soldiers is false.

Rape is not backed by the U.S. or by its citizens! These individuals are sick rapists and they are despised for the rest of their lives.

NO ONE in our government would EVER use rape as a valid weapon. But apparently the Rapists of Islam are heroes, eh? I want all rapists DEAD, regardless of race or religion.