Online Poll Shows 85% of Brits Want to Repeal the Ban on Hand Guns

Originally posted by seabag

I've provided the stats...it's pointless anymore. .

No because you seems to have no idea how to use stats. You have no idea what a rate is

reply to post by crazyewok

And who the hell are you to tell us in the UK what we should or should not be doing?

You seem to know nothing about the USA and base your opinion on sterotypes and FOX media like assertations

You dont like fine just shut the hell up and stay in the USA then.

Europeans sure don’t like dissenting opinions. You’re quick to “SHUT PEOPLE UP” when you don’t agree. It must suck to live in a place with so little tolerance and even less freedom from government.

This what pisses me off with the USA you want to enforce you ways on the rest of us and you seem to beleive you have "moral" supperiority and the duty to change the world well you dont.

Well, nobody is forcing anything. I’m sharing opinions and facts. I’m just a guy on ATS and I have no bearing on your twisted laws.

…and we are superior.

Just repect the fact all countrys are DIFRRENT and DIFFRENT people want to live under DIFFTRENT ways and you have no right to sneer or deride those ways unless they are impacting on you!

Sneer and deride??

I’m free to express my contempt with anything I want. You are free to NOT PARTICIPATE. If you chose to (and you’re always welcome) then stop crying about it. You knew what you walked in to!

reply to post by seabag


It's amazing how outright vicious and nasty some people get when the mere suggestion arises that England may not be a happy and peaceful place as it's depicted so diligently in media and self generated coverage. I expect the UK Establishment to be vicious in their own defense. After all, tourism is a major part of their economy as it is for most nations ...and they know well by having been on the dumping side a few times ...how harmful it can be to be dumped on for crime on the world stage.

I appreciate some of the charts and facts you've brought up though and a couple I think I may just save myself. England doesn't have the gun crime, true....they just gut you like a fish on the dock there, instead. Hardly a welcome alternative to my thinking. I'd prefer shot to eviscerated, if I have a choice in the matter.

Crime seems the one universal constant, isn't it? All major nations have it and the more they try to deny that fact, the worse it seems to become. That, too, seems a constant.

Originally posted by seabag
[It must suck to live in a place with so little tolerance and even less freedom from government.

See again with the sneering and deriding coments! And commenting on a place you know nothing about!

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by seabag

I've provided the stats...it's pointless anymore. .

No because you seems to have no idea how to use stats. You have no idea what a rate is

edit on 2-6-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

I understand this:



UK = 13.4 violent crimes per 1,000 people.
US = 5 violent crimes per 1,000 people.

You are more likely to be a victim in UK.

UK Mail Online’s James Slack reported on the soaring gun violence sweeping the country. Slack wrote in his article entitled, “Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade,”

“Gun crime has almost doubled since Labour came to power as a culture of extreme gang violence has taken hold…In some parts of the country, the number of offences has increased more than five-fold.”

The UK Home Office figures for that period showed the total number of firearm offenses in England and Wales had increased from 5,209 in 1999 to 9,865 in 2009… An alarming rise in gun violence for a whopping 89 per cent.

granitegrok.com...

This isn’t a competition between US and UK. You are free to bag on US all you want but the fact remains, UK has a serious violent crime problem and people in UK aren’t even ALLOWED by their RULERS to defend themselves.

Now THAT'S laughable!

reply to post by seabag


Thanks Seabag that is some interesting information. I am sure the poll isn’t 100% accurate in depicting the UK but if it is even 20% accurate that completely changes my perception of the population there.

I don’t think we will see any changes brought on directly by that bill being introduced but I believe the UK mindset is beginning to turn. It seems ridiculous that they do not even have a choice in the matter of how to protect themselves it is completely sheepish IMO I think one or two more instances of random violence like what they recently experienced without the means to defense will have the country change their policy. The world is not getting any safer from what I have seen so people will adapt one way or another eventually.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


look at the numbers over 60 million in GB, 635 murders for 2012 , americans link there masculinity to guns plus they are scared to death of blacks, muslims, russians and just about everything that moves in fact.....so to take there guns would be like taking there balls lolz

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Now I dont always agree with you Wrabbit2000 but normaly I do repect what you say so Im not going to jump on you.

Most of us are being "outright vicious and nasty" because Seabag rather than respectfully entering into the debate is useing this thread as a excuse make sneering and deriding comments about country and cultures he knows nothing about about!

Ok debate if the UK should relax its gun laws fine (I would vote yes). But stop makeing deriding and insulting comments! I repect other countrys diffrences. I dont view the USA way of doing things better or worse just how they like to do things. But you have ignorant Xenophoic fools like seabag makeing deriding comments and thats what is triggering the hate!

And then you got trolls going around bringing world war 2 into this which is really trolling.

This is not a debate but one trolling thread!

Originally posted by surfin4
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

look at the numbers over 60 million in GB, 635 murders for 2012 , americans link there masculinity to guns plus they are scared to death of blacks, muslims, russians and just about everything that moves in fact.....so to take there guns would be like taking there balls lolz

I guess that’s the problem; American’s aren’t masculine enough!

We’re not masculine like the British soldiers during the American Revolution who would stand side by side on a firing line during combat like red targets on the horizon! They expected us to stand opposed to them and we’d all keep firing at each other until one side won!

With tactics like that, who needs a gun?? Just stand there and take your lumps!!

Idiots!

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by surfin4
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

look at the numbers over 60 million in GB, 635 murders for 2012 , americans link there masculinity to guns plus they are scared to death of blacks, muslims, russians and just about everything that moves in fact.....so to take there guns would be like taking there balls lolz

I guess that’s the problem; American’s aren’t masculine enough!

We’re not masculine like the British soldiers during the American Revolution who would stand side by side on a firing line during combat like red targets on the horizon! They expected us to stand opposed to them and we’d all keep firing at each other until one side won!

With tactics like that, who needs a gun?? Just stand there and take your lumps!!

Idiots!

Again Wrabbit2000 this is what I mean.

Comments like this are what are makeing Seabag and some of your fellow American look like complete fools.



Shame we cant have a real repectfull debate without this moron.



And sebag you win idiot of the thread award with this comment as it show how little you know of your own nations history!

Originally posted by surfin4
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

look at the numbers over 60 million in GB, 635 murders for 2012 , americans link there masculinity to guns plus they are scared to death of blacks, muslims, russians and just about everything that moves in fact.....so to take there guns would be like taking there balls lolz

Seeing as how I am an American, a concealed weapons permit holder and someone who does carry a gun, by choice, routinely? I would take some issue with that, actually.

It's got nothing to do with irrational fear in my case. It has to do with growing up around cops to know how fast and how often violent death comes to people who are commonly unable to do a thing to stop or mitigate it. Should I find myself in the wrong place at the wrong time, I don't intend to be without any options for my own personal defense or that of my friends/family who happen to be around me.

It might even seem silly where I live...having the appearance of a quiet and nice area. Listening to the Police Scanner on a fairly regular basis tends to dispel that myth and quickly too. I had no idea how violent my city actually IS from a cop's perspective until I started listening to their end of things for awhile.

One comes to see their own city quite differently after seeing it from that side, I'll promise that.

reply to post by crazyewok

Again Wrabbit2000 this is what I mean.

Comments like this are what are makeing Seabag and some of your fellow American look like complete fools.

Shame we cant have a real repectfull debate without this moron.

Moron? That’s not nice!

Most of the posts in this thread in disagreement had at least one negative remark about me, the US or American people.

Go away if I offend you. I’m only giving back what I receive. All of your posts are trying to silence me and tell me how much I don’t know.

reply to post by crazyewok


Well, I'm not going to join the fight here. Debate, yes...That looks interesting. Fight? No.

Seabag is a friend, in full disclosure here and I happen to agree with much of his thread. Not all of it and he'll certainly support the fact we see differently on some key points. Even gun related.

I would ask though...if you see the debate as being nasty? What part of calling him a moron and a wide range of other names ...do you think will make this a better situation? Knowing Seabag for awhile, I can only think that the deliberate and ceaseless name calling/provocation will insure it gets worse, not better. Just my two cents.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


***Cooling Off Period***

My apologies if anyone was offend! Wrabbit is right, things will only get worse if we continue because I don’t often back down; today is the exception.

The debate is whether or not Brits support a repeal of their draconian gun restrictions. The thread isn’t about the US. I’ll return later to see if anyone has any new opinions or info on the issue.

Cheers!

reply to post by seabag


Why are you bringing up this bogus statistics...

Definitions of violent crime differ too much to compare Western/Northern European nations with US...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by crazyewok

 

Well, I'm not going to join the fight here. Debate, yes...That looks interesting. Fight? No.

Seabag is a friend, in full disclosure here and I happen to agree with much of his thread. Not all of it and he'll certainly support the fact we see differently on some key points. Even gun related.

I would ask though...if you see the debate as being nasty? What part of calling him a moron and a wide range of other names ...do you think will make this a better situation? Knowing Seabag for awhile, I can only think that the deliberate and ceaseless name calling/provocation will insure it gets worse, not better. Just my two cents.

Yes maybe I should not have let him bait me.


BUT

It is hard not to getting angry when one with little to no knowlage of ones country starts deriding it in disrepectfull ways.


And yes I called him moronic just now but only because that last comment of his was! Maybe it is just the historian but comments like that has no basis in reality and do more harm than good.

Now I would actually be willing to apologise to seabag IF he was willing to apologise for his blatant uk bashing.

I'm sorry, but I'm calling BS on that graph. The UK being at top, with New Zealand just after??? New Zealand is extremely quiet. Unless of course you're counting the punch-ups on the rugby pitches, but then those are classified as "games".

reply to post by crazyewok

Now I would actually be willing to apologise to seabag IF he was willing to apologise for his blatant uk bashing.

I’m certainly not a UK basher. I have the same disdain for gun grabbers of any nationality, ethnicity or political persuasion. I respect people who value personal responsibility and freedom, not people who seek to oppress others and jam their values down people’s throats. I'm not jamming my values down anyone's throat, I'm simply defending my beliefs on an internet forum.

The OP clearly shows that at least some people in UK want the right to own a hand gun. Some people from UK on this thread instantly called them “crazies” or something to that effect. That doesn’t show much tolerance for people who think differently, does it?

Sorry if my language offended you but I give what I get. I wasn’t trying to bait anyone into a US vs UK argument. I served with British Royal Marines in the late 90’s and grew quite fond of their esprit de corps, hard core attitudes, training practices and love of country. It is the gun grabbers I take issue with….all of them….including the ones on ATS.

Moderator Alert


I'm seeing a lot of nasty comments back and forth here.

DISCUSS THE ISSUE IN A CIVIL MANNER -- If you find that a comment makes you angry or makes you want to sneer at someone, step away from the discussion and come back later

Moderator Alert


I'm seeing a lot of nasty comments back and forth here.

DISCUSS THE ISSUE IN A CIVIL MANNER -- If you find that a comment makes you angry or makes you want to sneer at someone, step away from the discussion and come back later