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Online Poll Shows 85% of Brits Want to Repeal the Ban on Hand Guns

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posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 

I was a bit curious on that myself. It seemed a bit convinient, to be honest, given the topic and way it's gone for debate. If anything though? Wow... I think New Zealand in particular may be under-reported for Per Capita crime rates.

Crime in New Zealand: 1996–2005 (NZ Government Source)

Fair warning, it's a 53 page PDF. However, looking at that for NZ reminds me of my little city. It looks quiet. It sounds quiet and just the occasional ambulance siren is heard on most days. They spend a bloody fortune keeping the appearance that way too, for tourists. To look at the real stats and listen to the real police activity though? Err... Quiet is an illusion. By NZ's own stats on property, personal and violent crime? It looks like a similar story there. Idyllic place to live by appearances ....something quiet different to be on the crime side of things?




posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 12:57 PM
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Personaly I think that telegraph poll is useless to be honnest even though I agree.


Ok view on UK and gun control?

Yes they should relax things enough to allow home ownership of hand guns. As long as they were safely stored and registerd.

And I think a large number may agree.

But I can say that I think the attitude would be:

No to conceal carry as it would not go well with our drink and youth crime problem. It would make that worse. We would need to sorth this problem out first.

No to millitary assualt weapons.

But you have to remeber what works in the USA may not work in the USA because of local problems.



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 



Personaly I think that telegraph poll is useless to be honnest even though I agree.

Ok view on UK and gun control?

Yes they should relax things enough to allow home ownership of hand guns. As long as they were safely stored and registerd.

And I think a large number may agree.

Excellent. I think it’s really just an issue of personal responsibility vesus government (authority) dependency. I really dislike the argument some make that people can’t be trusted. This, to me, is an extremely elitist view. People should be trusted until they’ve proven they no longer can be trusted (convicted of a felonious crime).





But I can say that I think the attitude would be:

No to conceal carry as it would not go well with our drink and youth crime problem. It would make that worse. We would need to sorth this problem out first.

No to millitary assualt weapons.

That would certainly be something the people should decide for themselves through their elected officials. Nobody wants lawlessness but oppression isn’t the only other option. Reasonable laws are always required. It should be up to the PEOPLE, not the government, to decide what is reasonable.




But you have to remeber what works in the USA may not work in the USA because of local problems.

Certainly! In US, most gun control laws are handled at the state level for just that reason. It should be handled locally for the best result. At least that way I’m free to move if I really disagree that much with a state’s tougher laws.



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


Thats one of the issue though with the UK. We are small country. So We dont have the luxury of states when considering law makeing and counsils are so many and so small that it would be next to impossible to enforce a state like system.

But we do have the option of moveing out to other EU countrys.....


You also have to take into account our very dense population.

With USA rural regions its really not much of a issue even if you own a mini gun if you want even if some nut case does miss use something the damage would be minimal in those areas. So this is one factor that needs takeing into account really.



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


You Brits call us in the USA stupid and make degrading remarks about how backward we are , but you can not take what you dish out . We do not want to be knuckled under by some people who call themselves our government like the Brits did . . We don't need them to try to redirect our American dream into the NWO debacle that you seem happy with . Why did you people even fight the Germans , they were backed by the same people who are attacking you now .



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 01:25 PM
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Your Attention, Please.....



Regardless of which side of the debate you are on, You are responsible for your own posts.
Stay on topic and away from personal attack on other member!!!! Think before you post


So, while "I Don't Agree with YOU".......yo are expected to post with civility and decorum within all topics.

Trolling, And What To Do About It


Failure to post in a civil manner will have consequences:
Post Removals.
Temporary Posting Bans.



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 01:30 PM
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I don't know where you get your news from but NO we do not want to give up our guns . The United Nations Agenda 21 has a section dealing with Population Reduction , and they are quite serious about it . Critical thinking says that their prime objective is not to keep the population safe and growing by banning guns . No ! They want to limit our ability to resist their coming draconian CHANGE as Obummer put it . That CHANGE means something that we rejected for what we chose in the first place . That means we will not like living under it . Just like in the old days in the UK , specifically England where the Royals were above the law and the Commoners were dirt poor and over taxed and oppressed you people were happy and we would fight against it . That's the way you are going and we will not .

edit on 2-6-2013 by SimonPeter because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 02:20 PM
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According to the list above, the UK is just over twice as violent as Canada per 100,000 head of populace, but Canada's population has a sq mile for every 8 people, whereas the UK has 1,000+ crammed into its sq miles. Everybody seems to ignore the differences in population density between nations, but surely that has to be a significant factor?



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
I don't know where you get your news from but NO we do not want to give up our guns . The United Nations Agenda 21 has a section dealing with Population Reduction , and they are quite serious about it . Critical thinking says that their prime objective is not to keep the population safe and growing by banning guns . No ! They want to limit our ability to resist their coming draconian CHANGE as Obummer put it . That CHANGE means something that we rejected for what we chose in the first place . That means we will not like living under it . Just like in the old days in the UK , specifically England where the Royals were above the law and the Commoners were dirt poor and over taxed and oppressed you people were happy and we would fight against it . That's the way you are going and we will not .

edit on 2-6-2013 by SimonPeter because: (no reason given)


Agenda 21 does not have section dealing with population reduction...

Read the full document first, before commenting on the matter. Internet is full of people making claims that are not in the document...


Just understand British people are different from US. Ut is not a gun culture, as it is not in most EU countries.

Their system without guns works for them and statistically there is much less crime than in US. There is less rapes, four times less murders

Over 7 times more people are killed unintentionally with a firearm in US than total murders in UK...

Their system works there, guns would only bring trouble.


Here, another EU country, guns are not looked positively. My friend owns a gun. The parents of his kids friends do not allow their kids play at my friends place, as my friend owns a gun... They do not want their kids be in the proximity of guns.

Guns are seen as dangerous weapons, which they are. Nearly anybody can get one, although people just do not see a point in getting one.. These are seen as just waste of money by most people. It is ext.remely rare even for criminals to own a gun, especially burglars, muggers etc. Pointless.

But that works here also. Out of the 1,5 million people, 4 people were shot to death last year. In Japan for example, the population is over 100 million and in 2008 there were a total of 11 gun homicides... There is a direct correlation between the number of guns at private hands and murder rate in OECD countries.
edit on 2-6-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


The UK police are paid to keep violent crime down and so they try and make every crime sound like its violent so they can keep their funding



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by IvanAstikov

According to the list above, the UK is just over twice as violent as Canada per 100,000 head of populace, but Canada's population has a sq mile for every 8 people, whereas the UK has 1,000+ crammed into its sq miles. Everybody seems to ignore the differences in population density between nations, but surely that has to be a significant factor?


EXACTLY!

In most states in the USA population denisty is very low.


In Britain well its extremly high in the south east. And density does affect crime.

Not lack of guns but density. More more packed in a smaller space does seem to cause more aggression.


As I said you have to break this stats down and then corelate them to local trends.

You cant just pull a bunch of numbers and graphs out and say look this proves such and such.


I think this what has also annoyed me. People on this thread have pulled some graphs and stats out and trumped them about. But refuse to look deeper and break things down and look at local trends.
edit on 2-6-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by Maxatoria
reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


The UK police are paid to keep violent crime down and so they try and make every crime sound like its violent so they can keep their funding


Yup that another thing.

Especialy since our govermnet has been attcking the police force and trying to cut back.


Non violent crime does not seem to bother the politicans. So our police like to report stuff as violent crime more than they should. Cant really blame them as its there jobs on the line.
edit on 2-6-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 02:56 PM
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Why do Americans keep ignoring the fact that more crimes in the UK are considered "violent crimes" than in America?

In England, if you get caught having a fight, you will go down on record as commiting a violent crime, even spitting at someone will lead to the same thing. A violent crime in England is not the same thing as in America, infact most "violent crimes" don't even warrent a prison sentance over here, hence why you have much more people locked up over there.

Those stats that are being posted about violent crime rates are misleading, prison populations is a better way to judge which country has more violent people.



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 




You Brits call us in the USA stupid and make degrading remarks about how backward we are ,


No, some Brits call some Americans stupid some times, exactly the same as some Americans call some Brits some times.
It cuts both ways.



but you can not take what you dish out .


Pot and kettle springs to mind.



We do not want to be knuckled under by some people who call themselves our government like the Brits did .


Neither do we, but I see your government dictating to 'you' in exactly the same way that the UK's is to 'us'.



. We don't need them to try to redirect our American dream into the NWO debacle that you seem happy with .


What so many Americans seem incapable of grasping is that to many outside of the USA your 'American dream' isn't that desirable or even unique.
And from the outside looking in it all seems to have gone a bit sour.

It seems to me that this thread was started with the intentions of insulting and belittling the UK and it's people.
What sort of reaction do you expect?
And there seems to be a complete ignorance of relatively recent history and UK culture and it's people.

The UK is far from perfect, there are many issues that require addressing with urgency.
Just like the USA and everywhere else in the world.

We don't want to compound the issue by throwing more guns into the mix and relaxing our gun control laws.
Sure there are some UK citizens who do, but I assure you they are the minority.

On what grounds do I make that statement? - By living here and talking to people - I don't think I know one person who believes we should relax our gun laws, it simply isn't an issue, we have far bigger problems that occupy us.



Why did you people even fight the Germans , they were backed by the same people who are attacking you now .


As much as I'd love to discuss this I don't think this is the time or place - where is the relevance with the thread topic?
Start a thread and I'm sure I and many other Brits etc would be glad to contribute.

It would be nice to see someone actually try to answer some of the numerous questions I and other's have raised with some sort of reasoned arguement rather than just indulging in inane name calling and spewing out the usual and predictable pro-gun rhetoric and dogma verbatim.

I have no desire to criticise the US Second Amendment - I understand why you have it and why you want to preserve it.
And that is a matter for Americans alone.
But I recognise that though we have much in common there is also much that is different about our respective cultures etc and what is right for one isn't necessarily right for the other.
Guns are engrained in American culture, they aren't here in the UK and Europe as a whole.
And we don't want them to be.
It's not that hard to understand, and shouldn't be that hard to respect.



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 

Dear seabag,

I have a complaint to make against you.

I have been involved in a number of threads recently which were filled to overflowing with ignorance, stupidity, and hate. Sadly, I must admit, they were wearing on me. I was getting to the point where I was afraid I'd get angry and say reprehensible things.

In a flash I remembered that I could find threads which had recently been started, by certain posters who are kind enough to call me a friend. I heaved a giant sigh of relief. Here, at last, I said to myself, I could find a thread containing reasonable discussion and exploration of positions, resulting in increased understanding.

I clicked on this thread and read through the first ten pages. Seabag, you've let me down. But to show you what strength of character I still have, I will not scream and swear.

Perhaps the posters have suggested two avenues to explore.

Our culture our ways so STFU.

Do what you like in thge USA but keep the hell away from my country!

Concentrate on your own country


Perhaps he's right. (Although I wonder about his feelings towards the EU) Even though the US (on and off) has called for freedom, individual responsibility, and control of our own lives (Yes, I know Obama exists. We may still be able to repair the damage.), maybe we shouldn't. Why don't we let the UK go it's own way? Why not let the lights go out in that country and reduce by one the list of the friends and allies of freedom? Sure, there aren't many left, but what would be wrong with letting the world fall under tyranny, either of the dictator, or the infinitely nosy bureaucracy?

UK's culture is theirs as was pointed out. But is it really?


Talk to almost any Briton and I reckon the vast majority of them would say that by far the four biggest concerns at present are Immigration, EU, austerity cuts and related issues and extremism / terrorism.
So, half of the four largest concerns in the UK are immigration and terrorism. How's progress along those lines coming?

It was also noted that perhaps the population density may be the underlying problem. Is it far-fetched to say that the immigration problem is leading to some densely crowded cities? Could it also be that some cities have areas where the "immigrants" have established their own areas where it is not safe for many people to go?

I don't think I need to go further.

With respect, (although I'm still disappointed that I didn't click on a "cleaner" thread)
Charles1952



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 05:38 PM
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a friend from england told me today of marches by the edl [ english defence league and the carry on in places like bradford etc over the killing of a soldier in woolwich .

gun fire on the streets of edinburgh and marches the sxxx is going to hit the fan soon enough we do not need guns when it does



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Countrys can be allies without interfering in local laws, customs and goverment.

USA, Canada, Australia and most of Europle all have high standards of livings, reasonable freedom (if you can call be ruled by a rich corrupt ruleing class, and thats the same in all these places) so why do we have to interfer with each other internaly?
edit on 2-6-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 

Dear crazyewok,

Forgive me for not writing more clearly. (I wish I had an editor.)

By "allies" I meant countires allied to the thought of freedom. It is not necessary that Spain and Canada be allies themselves if they are both supportive of the idea of liberty. And I don't mean the liberty to live under tyrannical rules.

I don't believe seabag is attempting to interfere. If I may speak for him, which is a dicey proposition, he may be shouting an alarm, asking people in the UK, and by inference the entire world, to restore freedom in this particular area when a goodly number of citizens cry out for it.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 05:54 PM
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And it's good that it's strict - hence why we have less gun-related incidents and less shooting sprees - even when you look at it relatively and change the variables to control for population sizes in respect to America and Britain.
reply to post by HomoSapiensSapiens
 


Just a few months ago over 300,000 guns were dumped on the streets of the UK. Criminals have guns and always will, however crazy people will use guns, knifes, bombs, poison...etc.

As far as shooting sprees go in the US, if memory serves me, most if not all happened in a "gun free zone". And Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in America, as well as some of the most gun violence/deaths.

So, "strict" did/is not promoting less gun-related incidents, however less "strict" gun laws are promoting lower crime rates.

With all that said, although I believe everyone has a right to protect themselves, I'm glad you can't carry guns in the UK. You have been without them for far too long and I'm not sure most people would know how to handle it.

It would take a long time and a lot of money to reintroduce an "American style" carry concept.
But that's just my opinion



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


The problem is the majority of people in the UK is dont want US style gun laws.

Maybe a slight deduction on restrictions on hand guns but not very many want to see people carrying concealed weapons around or buy assault weapons. Not unless we can sort some of our own social issue out.

Its not Tyranny (at least by UK deffinition) if the majority are ok with it. The UK is a democracy not a republic. If a large majority wanted to change the gun laws then a petition would be started and if it got 100,000 signatures (if the majority in the UK wanted a change this target would be very easy to hit in weeks) and it would go before parliment.

The deffination of Freedom ect will differ from country to country you just have to accept that. As long as major human rights abuses are not happening then its not really the bussness of westen countrys to judge each other.
edit on 2-6-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



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