Thousands of Muslims gather in London to condemn murder of soldier Lee Rigby

reply to post by ollncasino


This is a big area I have an issue with in the Islamic religion. About 18 years ago I actually dated a Saudi national who was in Scotland doing pilot training and he wanted to marry me and move me to Saudi, of course I was rather reluctant due to the cultural issues (and some of his friends had appalling attitudes to the Scottish women) He assured me that in fact, the reason that women were not allowed out on their own for was for their own protection and that was also the reason for covering their hair and most of their faces. When I questioned him more about what he meant by protection he quite glibly said that an attractive woman (or any woman for that matter) could expect to be raped if she tempted a man by showing her face and that if she was found to be tempting a man she would also face punishment under Sharia law for putting the man in that position in the first place...

End of relationship in 3..2...

He was very disappointed because apparently having a blonde wife is very sought after in Saudi and that his family would have been proud of him for marrying so well...even if they were the only ones who would actually get to see me...

I've also experienced abuse when I lived in Blackburn a couple of years prior to that although I had no idea why the men were shouting abuse at me at that point though I later discovered it was because not only was I driving a car, but I was out on my own.

These are just two personal experiences that have shaped my view of Islam and no one is going to make me change my mind that it is a backwards and oppressive regime anytime soon...

Originally posted by ollncasino
If I criticize Islam I am driving Muslims into the arms of jihadists?

If the purpose of your criticism is to encourage non-muslims to strike against random muslims, in an attempt to drive them from "your land," then yes.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


My feelings are not hurt..whatever gave you that impression. I don't like being called dumb and a bigot because I think a particular religion is a pile of poop though

Originally posted by nenothtu

You are anti-Muslim, and are recruiting for the extremists by not making the distinction.

But clearly giving Islam a free 'get out of jail card' hasn't worked either. Islamic extremism is increasing. At an alraming rate.

While you feel that I am part of the problem, I feel that you are. Pretending that many Muslims are not radicals clearly has not worked.

Islam must be examined, warts and all.

Threats of violence by Muslim extremists to intimidate people into silence is not the solution, as much as you appear to acquiesce to that perspective.

reply to post by destination now


We're all entitled to our opinions Ms. destination now

:-)

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

If the purpose of your criticism is to encourage non-muslims to strike against random muslims, in an attempt to drive them from "your land," then yes.

That is not the purpose of my criticism.

It surprises me that some imagine that there are legions of British people desperate to attack random Muslims. There isn't.

British people are not quite the barbarians that some would like to imagine.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by destination now

 

We're all entitled to our opinions Ms. destination now

:-)

Exactly but according to the OP if we disagree with their opinion we are dumb and in your own words, bigots!

Originally posted by ollncasino

I am concerned that 40% of Muslim British students felt than men and women should not be allowed to associate freely together, while 12% were not sure.

The simplest solution there is to not become a "Muslim British student". Problem solved. Or if you feel some sort of irrational need to become one, don't join ranks with the 40% - stay with the 60%, and you're still ok to chase wimmins.

What is the percentage of the overall British population that are "Muslim British students" again? maybe staying out of that little tiny clique would be your best bet overall

I am not alone.

Yeah, that's kinda obvious.

In a 2010 poll carried out by YouGov, 69% of British people polled agreed that Islam encourages the repression of women.

Exploring Islam Foundation Survey Results

Now, for that poll, don't ya think it would have made more sense to poll those INSIDE Islam, who would be more likely to know about it, rather than a general population that's as clueless about Islam as you are? Just sayin'....

40% of British Islam's future secular leaders feel that men and women should not be allowed to associate freely while 12% are not sure.

NOW we're getting somewhere! Pump them numbers up by shrinking the sample to just the ones you want to say "yes"! Just out of curiosity, is the sample that includes "British Islam's future secular leaders" as tiny as the percentage that includes "Muslim British students"? Give us some raw numbers here - how many fall into those groups versus the entire British population? You know, the Brits who might take exception to that?

That is a radical attitude inconsistent with Western values.

While I understand that "chasin' tail" is one of those vaunted "western values", how do you propose that such a minuscule number of dissenters is going to ruin your day, as a member of a much larger general population?

Out of that sample, how many have shot at you for eyeballin' their wimmins? Out of that number, why did you let them get away with shooting at you? I mean, you have the numbers on your side, so why are you letting them shove you around like that?

Hell, there's only one of me, and I'VE never let 'em get away with it!

Then again, I wasn't looking at a whole crowd of innocents, being distracted while the bad guys were shooting at me... I concentrated on the bad guys instead.

reply to post by destination now


As I said - we are entitled to our opinions

Why does it bother you? Should your low opinion of Muslims bother them?

reply to post by ollncasino


"Islam must be examined, warts and all.

Threats of violence by Muslim extremists to intimidate people into silence is not the solution, as much as you appear to Acquiesce to that perspective. "

Id like to play with your wording a bit.

People must be examined, warts and all.

Threats of violence by ANY extremists to intimidate people into silence is not the solution, as much as you appear to Acquiesce to that perspective.

Seems to make the most sense?

As it is a tragic event,thats a given,
But these men,acting the way they did,isnt isolated to them,
In fact what of these people? And Im sure you are aware of their history and current actions.
Plus,there are alot "christians".

Gangland - KKK Klan Of Killers


KKK: Then and Now


Skinheads Recruiting Your Children?


I find them to be relevant.
They are a "terroist" minded group,that perform "hate" crimes,due to political and idiological belief.
And is it different because they target African Americans and Jewish people?

And yet,they hold rallies in cities all the time,spouting hate and threats.
Much like muslim clerics do.
Where is this outrage to eliminate ALL groups like these?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

If the purpose of your criticism is to encourage non-muslims to strike against random muslims, in an attempt to drive them from "your land," then yes.

That is not the purpose of my criticism.

It surprises me that some imagine that there are legions of British people desperate to attack random Muslims. There isn't.

British people are not quite the barbarians that some would like to imagine.

That's right. Basing our judgement of them on the antics of the EDL would be as ridiculous as blaming the behaviour of muslim extremists on all muslims.

Originally posted by nenothtu

I think they support the Muslim contention that war is only justified in self-defense.

What I find interesting is that Muhammad was so busy defending himself from isolated city states with his large army, that he managed to defensively conquer the whole Arabian peninsula!



Muhammad was a violent warlord and all Muslims know that.

Many non Muslims do not.

HistoryNet - Muhammad the Warrior Prophet

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Like I said I agree, but that's not what the OP and yourself implied earlier, where anyone with an anti-muslim comment was branded a dumb bigot! That's hardly encouraging people to have their own opinions and I have never called you or the OP dumb or a bigot, you're just people with a different opinion to me, I've not got a problem, but you clearly do..

As for Muslims being bothered that I have a low opinion of their religion, well yes actually a lot of them would. Obviously there will be many who couldn't care less but sadly there are many within the religion who would now view me as a legitimate target for my views and I think you know that is true.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Why didn't you just fill in the blank yourself. There is only one religion in the entire world that has filled that blank in my lifetime. Islam! If you can't admit that, then you can not have a realistic conversation about the subject.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by nenothtu

Mohammed sucked at being bloodthirsty. I could have done much better.

I'm not sure that is true.

According to the first biography on Muhammad's life written by a devout Muslim in 768 AD, Muhammad beheaded 800 males of the Banu Qurayza tribe and enslaved their women and children.

Sirat Rasul Allah

The incident is mentioned in the Koran.

33:26 And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.

33:27 And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.

Koran

Indeed. "Those of the People of the Book who aided them". War happens, and when it does, you go after, you know, your enemy.... and, of course, the people "who aid them" aren't really your friends, are they?

From page 84 & 85 of Ibn Ishaq's biography about Muhammad

"The apostle of Allah imprisoned the Qurayza in Medina while trenches were dug in the market-place. Then he sent for the men and had their heads struck off so that they fell in the trenches. They were brought out in groups, and among them was Kab, the chief of the tribe. In number, they amounted to six or seven hundred, although some state it to have been eight or nine hundred. All were executed. One man turned to his people and said, 'It matters not! By God's will, the children of Israel were destined for this massacre!’ Then he seated himself and his head was struck off...

Aye. I know that when I go to war, if I fall into the hands of the people I'm warring against, they're not likely to roll out the welcome mat. He didn't have to be a rocket scientist for the guy to figure he was "destined for slaughter".

...Now the apostle distributed the property of the Banu Qurayza, as well as their women and children, to the Muslims, reserving one-fifth for himself. Every horseman received three shares, one for himself and two for his steed, and every foot soldier one share. There were thirty-six horses present on the day of the Qurayza. The apostle dispatched an emissary to Najd with the prisoners, to barter them as slaves in exchange for horses and camels. The apostle of Allah selected one of the Jewish women, Rayhana, for himself, and she remained with him as his slave until she died. He had suggested marriage to her, that she should wear the veil (to separate her from all other persons, as his wives did), but she replied, 'Rather allow me to remain thy slave; it will be more easy for me, and for thee.'"

The surprising thing about Muhammad's blood thirst is the matter of fact way Muslims writers wrote about it.

That's pretty much the way war was conducted in those days, so I'm at a loss as to why you find it unusual. It was conducted that way by Christians, by secular kingdoms, and even by raiding parties like the Vikings sent out. It's just how it was done. Why does that surprise you that yet another population did things the way everyone else did?

I gotta wonder why that bloodthirsty son of a gun didn't just force Rayhanna into marriage if that's what he wanted, being bloodthirsty and all. Christian kings and generals did, so why didn't Mohammed?

Originally posted by Black_Fox

In fact what of these people? And Im sure you are aware of their history and current actions.
Plus,there are alot "christians".

Gangland - KKK Klan Of Killers

Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years

Link

reply to post by neformore


Muslims have to stand up and fight the cancer in their religion, they have been allowed to live in Europe, Canada and the U.S. This is a privilege, we are allowing them to get out of their smelly, crowded countries where women have no rights! Someone is brainwashing these children, they are not born terrorists. These are the people who need to be exterminated.

reply to post by Black_Fox


Nice try, KKK and all. At the same time, I haven't heard of KKK members using cleavers to cut up the objects of their hate like for a really, really really long time. This is a very unsavory group of people and they might be considered as giving America a bad name and all that, but... Hello. I haven't heard of them blowing up trucks, subway trains, marathons or airplanes, flying into tall buildings, rioting because of a CARTOON, stabbing a film director to death because the movie wasn't so good etc. At the same time, we almost came to expect this from the modern day Muslims around the globe. It's like "new normal".

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by nenothtu
I would guess that those passages could have an impact on young minds. Military recruiters do - that's why they prey on that age group, too. YOU could have the same impact, and instead of using it to promote peace, you are using it to promote more divisive hatred.

If I criticize Islam I am driving Muslims into the arms of jihadists?

Don't criticism Islam or Muslims will kill you?

And you wonder why many people see Islam as a problem?


Wow. Just wow.

Criticizing Islam is one thing. Lumping all Muslims into the terrorist camp is another thing altogether. YOU alienate them and put them there, then are surprised that you find them there?

Wow. Just wow.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Black_Fox

In fact what of these people? And Im sure you are aware of their history and current actions.
Plus,there are alot "christians".

Gangland - KKK Klan Of Killers

Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years

Link

Stats?
Your avoiding the point.
Where is your call for these people to be examined and stopped?
In fact this group is still very active,and protected by the constitution.

And I also highly doubt there is an exact "stat" for what the KKK has done throughout the years.
Or is it,its that you dont worry about the KKK,cause your white?
You seem to be putting your chips into something you dont get,so you are scared.

You see people,of a religion,who were crazy and did a terrible thing.
You think it could happen to you,because to you,most people envolved with muslims/Islam have to be evil.

I doubt you have actually met any,and you parrot alot from the fear mongering media.
So its either ALL groups or none.
Dont pick and choose,be consistant.