It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Thousands of Muslims gather in London to condemn murder of soldier Lee Rigby

page: 23
135
<< 20  21  22    24  25  26 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 27 2013 @ 02:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by ollncasino

But your statistics are just illustrating that Americans can't find the USA on a map and the like. Totally irrelevant to this thread.


Statistics are statistics. One set is just as relevant as the other.



Here is a survey on the other hand carried out by YouGov, a reputable polling agency on Muslim British student attitudes.


Bold mine. can we possibly isolate that sample any further? Narrow it down a bit more to pump the numbers even higher? I ask, because those numbers just aren't high enough to scare me, and I kinda like being scared. Maybe we could take a sample within that sample of just the ones who wear traditional dress, or have green eyes or something?




• 40% want Sharia law introduced into British Law for Muslims.

• 33% want the introduction of a worldwide Caliph, while 25% are opposed. 41% are not sure.

• 59% felt it was important that women wear the hijab but only 31% felt a women should be forced to wear one.

• 40% felt than men and women should not be allowed to associate freely together, while 12% were not sure.

• 32% felt it could be justifiable to kill in the name of religion.

• 57% fell that Muslims serving on the UK armed forces should have the right to opt out if the British army is fighting in a Muslim country.

• 16% felt the punishment that Gillian Gibbons received (the British teacher in Sudan who was sent to prison for 15 days after naming a teddy-bear ‘Mohammed’) was just right or not harsh enough. 19% were not sure.

Link



Uh, yeah. If you can't get the numbers any higher than that, I just can't see it as any sort of credible threat. You probably ought to try harder. I'm still waiting on you to break them down as a function of the overall British population, so I can see just how scarily dangerous and threatening to you "those people" really are.

I find it hilarious that you feel threatened and are afraid that someone else doesn't want to hang around with girls, as if that's some sort of threat that YOU won't be allowed to.

That's some funny stuff right there!




edit on 2013/5/27 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 27 2013 @ 02:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by ollncasino
If we can put the political correctness, that has served only to stifle legitimate debate, aside for a moment, can we agree that a number of Muslims in the UK are accurately described as extremists?

Yes. Now can we agree that the number of non-muslim extremists just waiting for a call to action has to be significantly larger, and can you tell us what you are doing to try and expose them?



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 02:52 PM
link   
reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 



Racist is as racist does ollncasino. We calls it as we sees it sometimes - tough luck


He says whilst posting a video of a white Muslim convert...

It's not about race, it's about religion, it doesn't matter what the colour of their skin is, it's about the culture and of course the extremists who twist the words of their religion into a hatefest against all non believers, whilst the peaceful but usually silent majority Muslims sit and look on..



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 02:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by nenothtu

BTW, I HAVE read the Qur'an. It's not much different from the Bible in a certain respect - you have to read the surrounding verses for context, and use other verses to illuminate what you are reading.


What are your thoughts on the fact that the Meccan Koran, when Muhammad was weak has no Jihad passages, yet the Medinan Koran when Muhammad was a powerful warlord, consists of 24% Jihad passages?

Muhammad's messages became more and more violent as he grew more powerful.

Statistical Islam

In light of the fact that the Koran demands 91 times that Muslims imitate Mohammed in every way (Statistical Islam), do you think that the later violent jihad passages have had any impact on young, impressionable British Muslims?



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 02:54 PM
link   
reply to post by 2ndthought
 


I'm also clear now on who I'm talking to. An Obama liberal. Good to know from which direction you're coming from.


Who you're talking to is someone who is anti-bigotry and anti-nazi

It's surprising you're really that unaware - but there's a whole lot more people in this world than just the liberals that are against this sort of thing



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 02:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

Originally posted by 2ndthought
reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


And here in America, what would be the charge if someone spray painted a swastika on a WWII memorial? Or burned a cross in front of a black church?

Mere vandalism?


Are you incapable of understanding the point of all this?

Crime - is crime. Why single out the Muslims?


Quite capable. Here in America those examples I presented are now classified as hate crimes. And prosecuted as if the perpetrator is one step away from a terrorist.

I also understand that, while you WISH Islamic atrocities be classified as mere 'crime', to the extremists, it's war.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 02:57 PM
link   
reply to post by destination now
 


Would it make you feel better if we used the word bigot?

I happen to agree with you - racist is the wrong word

but Mr. Casino's little sign says racist, so...

:-)



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 02:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by 2ndthought
 


I'm also clear now on who I'm talking to. An Obama liberal. Good to know from which direction you're coming from.


Who you're talking to is someone who is anti-bigotry and anti-nazi

It's surprising you're really that unaware - but there's a whole lot more people in this world than just the liberals that are against this sort of thing



Exactly. You could call me a muslim apologist to my face, cos that would be hilarious, but call me a liberal and I'll beat you till you cry.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 03:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

Who you're talking to is someone who is anti-bigotry and anti-nazi

It's surprising you're really that unaware - but there's a whole lot more people in this world than just the liberals that are against this sort of thing


Many people have noticed that the anti-bigots can be highly intolerant of any opinion that differs from their own.


"The fascist of the future will be the anti-fascists"

Winston Churchill



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 03:02 PM
link   
reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


No, I don't like the word bigot either..I think Islam is a stupid, pointless religion, that does not make me a bigot because I hold the same view of all religions, but at least if I say that in public the Catholics are not going to go to war with me and that's the problem, it's a religion that does not allow any viewpoint other than its own...much like this thread it seems



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 03:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

but Mr. Casino's little sign says racist, so...

:-)


Yet my partner is of another race and my son is mixed race.

I may be many things but racist is not one of them.

I am anti-Muslim extremism. But who isn't?

Can we try to find some middle ground?

Can you agree that these people are Muslim extremists?

Christmas bomb plot: nine men remanded over plan to 'blow up Big Ben and Westminster Abbey'



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 03:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by nenothtu

BTW, I HAVE read the Qur'an. It's not much different from the Bible in a certain respect - you have to read the surrounding verses for context, and use other verses to illuminate what you are reading.


What are your thoughts on the fact that the Meccan Koran, when Muhammad was weak has no Jihad passages, yet the Medinan Koran when Muhammad was a powerful warlord, consists of 24% Jihad passages?


I think they support the Muslim contention that war is only justified in self-defense. Support it very well, actually. He seems to have had no need to fight until he was on the defensive in Medina.

Funny how that bloodthirsty mug didn't just strike while the iron was hot and start laying waste when he was right there amongst them. Seems to me that would have made that whole conquest thing much, MUCH easier - you know, to attack while you have 'em right there, and before they expect an attack.

Mohammed sucked at being bloodthirsty. I could have done much better.



Muhammad's messages became more and more violent as he grew more powerful.

Statistical Islam

In light of the fact that the Koran demands 91 times that Muslims imitate Mohammed in every way (Statistical Islam), do you think that the later violent jihad passages have had any impact on young, impressionable British Muslims?



See, that right there is the spin I've been talking about.

Mohammed also got shorter as he grew more powerful, since humans get shorter with age. Doesn't mean that his power level is the reason he got shorter, or vice versa. Likewise, his violence level isn't dependent on his power. Some folks can be incredibly violent because they DON'T have any power.

I would guess that those passages could have an impact on young minds. Military recruiters do - that's why they prey on that age group, too. YOU could have the same impact, and instead of using it to promote peace, you are using it to promote more divisive hatred. You are NO better than "those people".

In fact, you are assisting them.

Throw another statistic on me. I double dog dare ya. I'm going to start picking them apart and deconstructing them to put your spin on display for all the world to see.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 03:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by nenothtu

I find it hilarious that you feel threatened and are afraid that someone else doesn't want to hang around with girls, as if that's some sort of threat that YOU won't be allowed to.


I am concerned that 40% of Muslim British students felt than men and women should not be allowed to associate freely together, while 12% were not sure.

I am not alone.

In a 2010 poll carried out by YouGov, 69% of British people polled agreed that Islam encourages the repression of women.

Exploring Islam Foundation Survey Results

40% of British Islam's future secular leaders feel that men and women should not be allowed to associate freely while 12% are not sure.

That is a radical attitude inconsistent with Western values.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 03:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by 2ndthought

Quite capable. Here in America those examples I presented are now classified as hate crimes. And prosecuted as if the perpetrator is one step away from a terrorist.


You know, that has always bothered me, the whole "hate crime" stupidity. Just tacking another word onto it doesn't make it any more criminal, nor any more heinous, and in all my years of dealing with those criminal types, I have never once run across a "love crime", so what the hell IS a hate crime? There aren't any violent crimes with love as an element in them, so why do bone heads feel a need to specify that hate is involved?



I also understand that, while you WISH Islamic atrocities be classified as mere 'crime', to the extremists, it's war.


I'm good with that - treat 'em as either crimes or acts of war, but TREAT them, dammit! Deal with them. Don't blanket punish an entire group for the sins of the few. All you do then is radicalize the innocent, and drive them into the arms of the enemy. That's counter productive. Guerrilla warfare is alive and well, and people have still not, after all these centuries, learned how to deal with it without swelling the ranks of their real enemies - which is the whole goal of driving you to demonize groups that could otherwise be made allies.

Doing so only recruits for the enemy.

Where do "war crimes" fit in your compartmentalization and separation of war and crime?



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 03:23 PM
link   
To those that claim the Woolrich killing was an isolated incident by a couple of lone wolves, seems there have been more arrests.

www.nytimes.com...

So I guess we can conclude that it was more wideranging than originally thought, which makes it more than isolated, which means it was likely known about, beforehand, by more people within the community.

Question. These 5000 that came out against the attack. Are they from this same area?

Also, off topic perhaps, but interesting. I had a post removed due to 'manners', simply for calling someone a liberal. Yet another poster threatened physical violence, directed toward me, and that post stands. Quite telling.

Wonder how long this one will stay.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 03:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by nenothtu

Mohammed sucked at being bloodthirsty. I could have done much better.


I'm not sure that is true.

According to the first biography on Muhammad's life written by a devout Muslim in 768 AD, Muhammad beheaded 800 males of the Banu Qurayza tribe and enslaved their women and children.

Sirat Rasul Allah

The incident is mentioned in the Koran.




33:26 And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.

33:27 And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.

Koran


From page 84 & 85 of Ibn Ishaq's biography about Muhammad



"The apostle of Allah imprisoned the Qurayza in Medina while trenches were dug in the market-place. Then he sent for the men and had their heads struck off so that they fell in the trenches. They were brought out in groups, and among them was Kab, the chief of the tribe. In number, they amounted to six or seven hundred, although some state it to have been eight or nine hundred. All were executed. One man turned to his people and said, 'It matters not! By God's will, the children of Israel were destined for this massacre!’ Then he seated himself and his head was struck off...

...Now the apostle distributed the property of the Banu Qurayza, as well as their women and children, to the Muslims, reserving one-fifth for himself. Every horseman received three shares, one for himself and two for his steed, and every foot soldier one share. There were thirty-six horses present on the day of the Qurayza. The apostle dispatched an emissary to Najd with the prisoners, to barter them as slaves in exchange for horses and camels. The apostle of Allah selected one of the Jewish women, Rayhana, for himself, and she remained with him as his slave until she died. He had suggested marriage to her, that she should wear the veil (to separate her from all other persons, as his wives did), but she replied, 'Rather allow me to remain thy slave; it will be more easy for me, and for thee.'"


The surprising thing about Muhammad's blood thirst is the matter of fact way Muslims writers wrote about it.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 03:26 PM
link   
reply to post by destination now
 



...it's a religion that does not allow any viewpoint other than its own...much like this thread it seems


Did anyone prevent you from expressing your opinion?

Were you're feelings hurt - because some people don't agree with you?

that's a little ironic - don't you think?

:-)



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 03:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by ollncasino

I am anti-Muslim extremism. But who isn't?



No, you're not. You are anti-Muslim, and are recruiting for the extremists by not making the distinction. Every post you make paints all Muslims with the extremist brush.

Every one, but especially the statistical ones.

You do not separate them, you do not single them out, you do not know your alleged enemy. You paint the crosshairs on every Muslim out there.

Sun Tzu said know yourself, but not your enemy, and you will only win half the time. Know your enemy, but not yourself, and you will only win half the time. Know neither your enemy nor yourself, and you will lose every time. Know both your enemy AND yourself, and victory is assured.

You cannot win until you know your enemy, and specifically in this case who IS your enemy. You cannot win like that. I suspect you don't want to, at the rate you are trying to swell the ranks of your alleged enemy.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 03:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by nenothtu
I would guess that those passages could have an impact on young minds. Military recruiters do - that's why they prey on that age group, too. YOU could have the same impact, and instead of using it to promote peace, you are using it to promote more divisive hatred.


If I criticize Islam I am driving Muslims into the arms of jihadists?

Don't criticism Islam or Muslims will kill you?

And you wonder why many people see Islam as a problem?


Wow. Just wow.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 03:35 PM
link   
reply to post by nenothtu
 


YOU could have the same impact, and instead of using it to promote peace, you are using it to promote more divisive hatred. You are NO better than "those people".

In fact, you are assisting them.


And this is how you shall know them - by their fruits...

howdy and well met nenothtu

Excellent post - I'll leave you to do what you do best

:-)


edit on 5/27/2013 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
135
<< 20  21  22    24  25  26 >>

log in

join