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Thousands of Muslims gather in London to condemn murder of soldier Lee Rigby

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posted on May, 27 2013 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by neformore
 


I read this somewhere, so I am copy/paste it here.>>>

A German's View on Islam - worth reading.

This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read.
His references to past history are accurate and clear.
Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read.
The author of this email is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist.


A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.

'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'

We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.

The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people..

The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.

Now Islamic prayers have been introduced into Toronto and other public schools in Ontario , and, yes, in Ottawa too while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?) The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.

In Australia , and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem (see the attachment), just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation’s shores.

In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of “no-go” zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law.

As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts -- the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

>>> What do you guys think?




posted on May, 27 2013 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by Kali74

I didn't say you said anything. I said other religions have people that are violent in their name and asked why aren't you vocal about the others, why only Islam? Are you going to address the tone of my post or just side step it by cherry picking?


I wasn't trying to cherry pick.

Why Islam?

Becuase it was founded by a violent warlord. The Koran commands Muslims to emulate Muhammad's life in every way.


The Koran demands 91 times that Muslims imitate Mohammed in every way


Muhammad also stated (in Sunni Canonical Hadith) that jihad is second only to believing in Allah (and himself)


Narrated by Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad).

The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 25


Incidentally, non violent jihad that we sometimes hear about was apparently a 11th century invention (I have the link some where). When Muhammad spoke about Jihad, he meant violent jihad.

Islam is not like other religions. It really does teach its followers to engage in violent jihad.

Most Muslims choose to ignore that. But not all.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 04:47 PM
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What's the point of gathering at mosques where most people wont see what they are doing?

How about a public march by the Muslims with banners saying stuff like:

"We are proud to be British"

"We support the troops"

"We condemn terrorism"

etc, etc, etc...

But they wont do a public march like other British folk would do. Their lack of integration does not help break down barriers between Muslims, and non-Muslims.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Kali74

I didn't say you said anything. I said other religions have people that are violent in their name and asked why aren't you vocal about the others, why only Islam? Are you going to address the tone of my post or just side step it by cherry picking?


I wasn't trying to cherry pick.

Why Islam?

Becuase it was founded by a violent warlord. The Koran commands Muslims to emulate Muhammad's life in every way.


The Koran demands 91 times that Muslims imitate Mohammed in every way


Muhammad also stated (in Sunni Canonical Hadith) that jihad is second only to believing in Allah (and himself)


Narrated by Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad).

The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 25


Incidentally, non violent jihad that we sometimes hear about was apparently a 11th century invention (I have the link some where). When Muhammad spoke about Jihad, he meant violent jihad.

Islam is not like other religions. It really does teach its followers to engage in violent jihad.

Most Muslims choose to ignore that. But not all.


Really? Let's check:


Jihad is commonly misunderstood as "Holy War", Jihad means "to struggle in the way of Allah". Jihad appears 41 times in the Quran and frequently in the idiomatic expression "striving in the way of God (al-jihad fi sabil Allah)".[4][5][6] A person engaged in jihad is called a mujahid; the plural is mujahideen. Jihad is an important religious duty for Muslims. A minority among the Sunni scholars sometimes refer to this duty as the sixth pillar of Islam, though it occupies no such official status.[7] In Twelver Shi'a Islam, however, Jihad is one of the 10 Practices of the Religion.

There are two commonly accepted meanings of jihad: an inner spiritual struggle and an outer physical struggle.[4] The "greater jihad" is the inner struggle by a believer to fulfill his religious duties.[4][8] This non-violent meaning is stressed by both Muslim[9] and non-Muslim[10] authors.

The "lesser jihad" is the physical struggle against the enemies of Islam.[4] This physical struggle can take a violent form or a non-violent form. The proponents of the violent form translate jihad as "holy war",[11][12] although some Islamic studies scholars disagree.[13] The Dictionary of Islam[4] and British-American orientalist Bernard Lewis both argue jihad has a military meaning in the large majority of cases.[14] Some scholars maintain non-violent ways to struggle against the enemies of Islam. An example of this is written debate, often characterized as "jihad of the pen".[15]

According to the BBC, a third meaning of jihad is the struggle to build a good society.[8] In a commentary of the hadith Sahih Muslim, entitled al-Minhaj, the medieval Islamic scholar Yahya ibn Sharaf al-Nawawi stated that "one of the collective duties of the community as a whole (fard kifaya) is to lodge a valid protest, to solve problems of religion, to have knowledge of Divine Law, to command what is right and forbid wrong conduct".


en.wikipedia.org...

What's the "greater" jihad? Being an expert and all I thought you would have known this.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


"Islam is not like other religions. It really does teach its followers to engage in violent jihad. "

Oh BS!
Its pretty much like EVERY religion.
Go back and read my post here.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

"Most Muslims choose to ignore that. But not all."
As do most all christians.
Reason? Because not all people are stupid enough to follow this these types of religious teachings.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Kali74

I didn't say you said anything. I said other religions have people that are violent in their name and asked why aren't you vocal about the others, why only Islam? Are you going to address the tone of my post or just side step it by cherry picking?


I wasn't trying to cherry pick.

Why Islam?

Becuase it was founded by a violent warlord. The Koran commands Muslims to emulate Muhammad's life in every way.


How many do you think are following these commands to the letter? Shouldn't there have been far more extremist acts of brutality if they've been living by these rules all along?



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by DeeKlassified
What's the point of gathering at mosques where most people wont see what they are doing?

How about a public march by the Muslims with banners saying stuff like:

"We are proud to be British"

"We support the troops"

"We condemn terrorism"

etc, etc, etc...

But they wont do a public march like other British folk would do. Their lack of integration does not help break down barriers between Muslims, and non-Muslims.


That's the thing. They are British only as far as the paperwork goes. That murderous POS with the cleaver in his hands, in the video, referred to "our lands" which very obviously are well outside Britain. Look at what happened in Boston - these young Muslims were admitted into the US under false pretense of being prosecuted in their home Chechnya. Not only they had ZERO allegiance to the United States, they actually practiced hate towards my nation. Same goes for the London subway bombers.

The Islam in the West is a nation inside the nation which they may or may not hate. Toss of a coin.

...and that's exactly why they are not going on a march. Why would they care? They are carving out a niche for themselves in our society and the rest can go to hell as far as they are concerned.

I'm sick and tired of some clerics just signing a letter saying that it's a bad idea to murder people. Duh. Too little, too late. Show your true colors, I do suspect treason.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

So if he "conquered the whole Arabian peninsula", why post a map of the expansions under subsequent generals?




I did say he conquered 'the Arabian Peninsula' and the map is colour coded with a ledgend.

Is this map better?



Muhammad did engage in extensive warfare.


624 - Battle of Badr involved Muslims versus a superior Meccan Army. The Muslim achieved an unexpected Victory and won much booty.

624 Muhammad laid siege to the Qainuqa Jewish tribe in Medina. He expelled the tribe and divided their property amongst his followers. Allegedly, Muhammad had planned to kill the tribe until dissuaded from doing so by a local sheikh Abdullah ibn Ubayy.

625 - Battle of Mount Uhud. Muslim defeat. Over 70 Muslims killed.

625 - Muhammad lays siege to Nadir Jewish tribe in Medina. He drives the Jewish tribe out of Medina and divides their property amongst his followers.

626 - Muhammad sends small force to fight hostile tribes in the area of Dumat al-Jandal, 500 miles North East of Medina. The raid was successful.

627 - Unsuccessful siege of Medina by Mecca/Bedouin army of 10,000.

627 - Muhammad lays siege to Quraaiza Jewish tribe in Medina. 600 to 800 males beheaded on Muhammad's orders according to the first biography of Muhammad's life. Women and children enslaved. Property divided amongst his followers. Muhammad kept one beautiful Jewish girl who had seen her husband being beheaded for himself. Later he asked her to marry him. She refused.

628 Muhammad lays siege to Jewish tribe in Khaibar with an army of 2,000. The Jews surrendered after a month. Jews stripped of possessions and ordered to leave. Lacking manpower to till the land, Muhammad relented and allowed the Jews to stay on in return for an annual tribute of half of their produce.

Number of other Jewish communities surrendered on similar terms.

629 Muhammad renounces the 10 year truce with Mecca.

630 Muhammad sets off to besiege Mecca with a force of 10,000 men. Mecca surrenders with little resistance.

Muhammad does not force non Muslims in Mecca to convert. Leading citizens of Mecca incorporated into Muhammad's administration.

630 Battle of Hunayn - Muslim army of 12,000 men against Bedouin tribe of Hawazin. Muslim victory.

630 Muhammad advances to Byzantine (Eastern Roman Empire) frontier with an army of 30,000, 500 miles North of Medina.

630 Treaty negotiated with Christian Prince of Aylah - In return for tribute freedom to worship as Christians.

631 Tribal dignitaries from all over Arabian peninsula flock to Mecca to profess subservience and pay tribute.

631/632 Preparation for campaign in Transjordan and Southern Palestine.

632 Muhammad dies.

Source: Gabriel, R.A. (2007) Muhammad: Islam's first great general. University of Oklahoma Press: Norman, USA.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


But why do you not condemn others who use religion as an excuse to be violent?
You've been asked that several times over several threads and I've never seen you answer the question with anything but "because Islam teaches violence".



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by IvanAstikov

How many do you think are following these commands to the letter? Shouldn't there have been far more extremist acts of brutality if they've been living by these rules all along?


That is the miracle. With Saudi Arabia spread the aggressive and intolerant Wahhabism around the globe, the miracle is that there are not more terrorist attacks.

On the other hand, there have been a huge number of attempted terrorist attacks by radical Muslims that have been detected and stopped by the intelligence agencies.

For instance, in the USA


Since 9/11, we have had Muslim Americans conspiring to destroy the Brooklyn bridge, a Somali Muslim living in Ohio plotting to blow up a local shopping mall, a cell of 7 Muslims plotting to blow up the New York stock exchange, A US Muslim and accomplice plotting to blow up the NY subway, two NY mosque leaders who plotted to blow up an Indian diplomat with a shoulder fired grenade launcher, a group of 4 Muslims who plotted to blow up National Guard facilities and synagogues in the LA area, 2 Muslims who conspired to blow up the Wyoming natural gas refinery & the Transcontinental Pipeline, a Muslim flying into Chicago plotting to use a dirty bomb in the USA, 2 Muslim men plotting to blow up the US Capitol and Word Bank Headquarters, 7 Muslims arrested for plotting to blow up the Sears tower in Chicago, 8 Muslims arrested for planning to blow up NY city train tunnels, a Muslim man who plotted to set off hand grenades in a shopping mall outside Chicago, 6 Muslims conspiring to attack Fort Dix, New Jersey, a Muslim who planned to set of a TAPT bomb in the NY subway, a Muslim who plotted to blow up a Dallas skyscraper, a Muslim who tried to set off a car bomb outside the courthouse in downtown Springfield, Illinois, 2 Muslims who plotted to murder civilians in US shopping malls, 4 Muslims plotting to blow up “aviation fuel tanks and pipelines at the John F. Kennedy International Airport” in New York City and 4 Muslims planning to shoot down planes with stinger missiles.

Link



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Kali74

But why do you not condemn others who use religion as an excuse to be violent?
You've been asked that several times over several threads and I've never seen you answer the question with anything but "because Islam teaches violence".


Who do you feel I should also be condemning?



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


especially the statistical ones? I have yet to see a statistic from him that says 100% which would support your claim that he paints ALL muslims as extremists. I don't know how you read statistics but say 68% is far from ALL.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 05:06 PM
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I honestly think there are forces on both sides, or many sides, converging one another another, looking for any reason to go to war.
It doesn't matter what we write here, or what we say or think.
No one can see this and thats why its going to happen.
We are too divided, always will be.
I have no faith in the human race as a whole because we are stuck on this infinite loop of self destruction.
Too many of us carry so much anger and hatred towards one another that it cannot be diffused in any way.
Its a ticking time bomb, and whoever, or whatever forces are putting all this in motion can count on our reactions like clock work.

There will never be peace, not in our life times, or our childrens life time. Thats just the way it is.

I just think if each side really wants a war, then stop with the threats and attacks.
Band behind whatever flag, book, or leader you choose and go on your death march into war, and once the rounds start flying and people start dying then will they see the true gravitity of the situation and see just how INSANE it is.

I personally don't want a war, but every now and then I think thats the only damn solution here.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by Kali74
 


Because it's currently mainly extremist Muslims who are using violence, though I can think of a so-called religious group who are regularly lambasted on here, not for violence but for the hate speech the spew on a regular basis and they are supposedly Christian...They're not, but they hide behind it, and I'm sure you can guess who they are!

But other than that can you name me a recent atrocity carried out by another religious group and I'll gladly condemn them as well.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


What was ironic about his whole "speech" was that he said bring our troops back from our land. So which is it your troops or your land?



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by DeeKlassified
Their lack of integration does not help break down barriers between Muslims, and non-Muslims.





Its Ironic that the majority of the World subscribes to some sort of Religion or God, but cant see the harm and the misconceptions its Religion's cause.

The misconceptions of teachings, and doctrines. Christians and Muslims have caused some of the most horrific death tolls in History, next to Governments.

Integration? More like society as a whole not recognizing that their fellow man has a weakness for Hate and Oppression, and is guilty of blaming everyone but themselves. You don't have to be a killer or terrorist. Silence shouldn't be used as an excuse. Silence is the weakest excuse any man can make.


You have to commend these people for speaking out. Its too bad Thousands of the average Londoners didn't come out and support them. Wouldn't that have been a sight.





edit on 27-5-2013 by sonnny1 because: typo



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by Black_Fox
"Islam is not like other religions. It really does teach its followers to engage in violent jihad. "

Oh BS!
Its pretty much like EVERY religion.


Jesus was not a man of violence. He taught peace. He did not lead armies. He did not conquer by the sword.

Muhammad was a man of violence. He led large armies. He did conquer by the sword.

There is a difference even if you choose not to see it.



"I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 24



Muslims are commanded by the Koran (91 times) to emulate Muhammad's life.



edit on 27-5-2013 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by nenothtu
Criticizing Islam is one thing. Lumping all Muslims into the terrorist camp is another thing altogether.


I can agree with that. At the same time, I note that there is already a long history of radicalized mosques in the UK, you can look up the connections of the previous gen terrorists (subway bombings etc). What I do find is that these people often DO NOT act in isolation but there is a medium, whole strata in the society in which the hate towards the West is cultivated and enabled. I'm far from lumping ALL Muslims together "into the terrorist camp". But some non-negligible fraction? Yes, sure.


No doubt. We have the same thing here in the US - radical mosques and even entire radicalized communities. There's one not far from where I am, that is kept under constant surveillance. We've even caught the FBI breaking bread with them, evidently some kind of "outreach" gone sideways. That group USED to be a pretty violent bunch, but haven't been active in several years.

If they ever GET active, we'll know, because we watch, and we know WHO to keep an eye on. We don't divide our attention, keeping track of people who pose no threat at all, i.e. the general Islamic population.

We watch the people who have been an actual threat. We even have Muslims (GASP!) who give us tips.

But then, we don't try to alienate them.

By "we", I don't mean the US population in general, because the population in general have bought the propaganda, and are scared spitless.



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 



Well the words were spoken at Friday prayers, so unlikely that hoards of average Londoners would have been allowed to enter the mosque...particularly the women...



posted on May, 27 2013 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


How about the Christian missionaries in Uganda buying laws that put gays to death, like I mentioned before? The Bible also says that homosexuals should be stoned to death, it says the same about adulterers, yet you only talk about Islam and the people who use Islam as an excuse to do horrible things, when clearly it is not an affliction only affecting Islam. Why not just all religious extremists in general be they Islamic, Christian, Hindu, Jewish yadda yadda?




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