Evidence of Ancient Advanced Civilizations...Would We Find It?

reply to post by NarcolepticBuddha


I totally agree, one would have to sit down an ponder how to exactly distribute said artifact without the usual MSM crack pot jives an of course the museums conveniently displacing items of interest, as hard as it is to fathom, it almost makes you want togo to the black market, as terrible as it is, at least some crazy rich tycoom has an affinity an appreciation for these artifacts, course they are hoarders of these items, maybe if I ask real nice they might let me into that vault to see the mysteries of the world.
Event Group series books are highly recommeded on this subject btw.
Maybe I should make a trip to the black markets an see what I can get...or risk being captured an my organs sold.

Originally posted by skalla
reply to post by Harte

 

sometimes, Harte, i feel it would be easier just to post a reading list and then stay clear of some threads.

LOL

I'm not here that often, really. If I had to do this every day, I'd probably do as you say.

Harte

Originally posted by ABeing
Nothing worth looking into at Puma Punku?

Why do you think there's "nothing worth looking into" at Puma Punku?

Originally posted by ABeing
Last post in this thread for me. Watch the video I posted earlier.

No thanks. I don't watch videos for this sort of purpose. You got a transcript?

Harte

First of all David Hatcher Childress is an author whom makes money out of this so take it with a pinch of salt and Listen to The intelligent criticism but make up your own mind on this video,
www.youtube.com...
It is quite a long film so there may be critic's even without watching it and if you do your own search there are many more such movie's on you tube.

reply to post by Harte


Allow me to rephrase my "nothing worth looking into at Puma Punku" according to your post to which I was replying:

Originally posted by Harte
...There's nothing at Puma Punku that can't be explained, just like Macchu Picchu. In fact, Macchu Piccu would have been more difficult, IMO.

As it is archeologically established that Puma Punku predates the Inca empire, which is said to have built Maccu Picchu; what needs to be explained is how Puma Punku then was constructed as it is a site in which symmetry, contrary to Maccu Picchu, and metall, in between the stone blocks, in the form of clamps, presumed to have been used as reinforcement of the foundation of the construction have been discovered.

What remains a mystery and have not been explained, although valid theories as to how it was done have been presented and have failed to meet the accomplishments of the builders of the site according to the current established archeological theory stating that the inhabitants of the site were primitive people; is how they presumably managed to cut, hammer and shape perfectly symmetrical H-shaped blocks, some weighting up to approximetly 130 tons, erect them using only rope, wood and man-power and fit them together so precise so that one cannot fit a sheet of paper between them; presumably constructing a building unlike anything previously believed to have existed in the Americas, resembling something of the likes of the temples found in Egypt, although imaginably, perhaps, even more advanced due to the discovery of the metall clamps in between the blocks.

You might want to take interest in Puma Punku if you are interested in ancient civilizations.

Regarding the video: no, I do not have a transcript of the video but I recommend that you watch it, as it is not a documentary but a presentation of an archeologist exploring the theory regarding whether or not a highly technologically sophisticated civilization have existed on Earth of which we have no written records of, and he succeeds to present ample evidence suggesting that this is, in fact, the case.

It is worth watching if one is interested in archeology at all.

This is my last post in this thread. I will not answer any further replies as it is futile if the material I provide in my posts is neither looked at or investigated.

Respectfully,
ABeing

Originally posted by NarcolepticBuddha

Originally posted by kix

Originally posted by NarcolepticBuddha


I think the more important question to ask is.."If someone found evidence of ancient advanced civilizations, will it be handled properly and made public knowledge, or will it be discarded and suppressed?"

That is excatly what happens the evidence is everywhere, but its has been suppressed , for what agenda or purpose I dont Know, but after visiting and studing countless archeaological sites I am SURE a lot of stuff have been hidden from us.

Oh definitely. It is a serious question to ask. Archaeology isn't always as professional as it's made out to be; nothing ever is. There are still a lot of "treasure hunters" out there who are violating the ethics of the field. Even worse, all it takes is an unethical person to fund that kind of dig. You'd be a fool to think that the public is made aware of every single artifactual and contexual find at a site. It is up to the archaeologist to catalog and interpret the findings. In many cases, we just have to take the archaeologist's interpretive opinion as fact.

In other words, I'm saying there's a lot of room for error, inaccuracy, and deception. Archaeology is neat and I almost got into this field, but it is a somewhat subjective discipline. Most people think archaeology is a science. It's not. It just borrows from some scientific methods and principles, but at the end of the day, it's still just the interpretation of the archaeologist we have to accept.

But for some reason the OP and some other posters seem to think I'm just a kooky conspiracy theorist

...Yeah, just implicitly trust people 100% when they find a cache of ancient treasure and wisdom and expect them to share it all with the public righhhht!

Fact is: corruptible people exist. And they can pervade any academic, scientific field. One might say that there is some "dirty" archaeology being practiced out there.

edit on 26-4-2013 by NarcolepticBuddha because: (no reason given)

I agree !

Ill give you a perfect example of how "THEY" dont want us to Know !!

In Mexico Near the city of Zacatecas is a side (MAGNIFICENT) called Chicomostoc, its commercial name is "La Quemada" it means the burned city. Ok so I that have read a lot of pre columbian sites had NEVER ever heard of it...so Off I go and Bam there it is a huge city with huge walls in the middle of the desert and lo and behold I try to show it on Google maps to a friend and it shows a out of focus blurred image of the Ruins, and the nearby town 1 Mile away that is a 2 hourse town has perfect sight in Google maps, and Google earth ....if that is no cover up I dont know what it is...

Same things with other stuff here, for example why did biuld such a big walls 30 feet high or more, on top of a mountain, what they were defending?, what was the enemy?, why the main palace has such high ceilings?, and more important why the destruction of the top is so important , its like an atomic bomb were dropped there inly rocks and melted metals... so weird... and more so why is so unexplored, even the National agency only mentions it in a Page, and wiki is not even more than half page...

pic or it did not happen:

i45.photobucket.com...

look at the surroundings... real friendly ::

i45.photobucket.com...

Originally posted by Arnie123

Originally posted by GargIndia
The fact is that a civilization can be very advanced technologically but still very under-developed spiritually. It is not easy to understand the nature of God and soul.

Interesting, through all my own observations, I too have concluded this, I thought I was alone in this manner, a civilization thats technologically advance can only get so far unless they advance spiritually, but here is my thing, WHEN said advance spiritually, is it always positive? Or can it be negative, like demonic worshipping? Negatively spiritually, regardless its still spiritual, so could a race not only be technologically advanced but negatively spiritually advanced too? My god what would that spawn? I think reptilians come to mind.
It also brings to mind the scenario of an ALL mechanical sentient race, though very advanced, could machines be very spiritual? Thats an open hole for me, sorry if I went a little off topic, I could'nt but remember old shows on how an ancient race died out but there devices continued to prosper, advancing themselves, like some old atlantean city...

I mean 'positive' spiritual progress.

One can either worship God or worship a 'demon'. Both cannot be done at the same time.

'Reptilians' have snatched public imagination. I think one must not pay too much attention to reptilians. It is hard to keep humans alive in space so some sort of intelligent robot must have been created by some races for the purpose of controlling the ship. We must focus more on humans and human values and purpose of life itself.

reply to post by Astyanax


The current history text books are written under the British rule. The contribution of "independent" governments after the British is insignificant. If you have any doubts, you can compare 1950 history textbooks to modern ones.

South Asians are afraid of their own culture and history. It is almost impossible for South Asians (collectively) to research their own history objectively and scientifically.

The British Government is in possession of many ancient original manuscripts obtained from India. I cannot offer you any proof at this time. Such things are not available in 'wikipedia', which seems to be a favorite source of information for many. Please wait and be patient. Disclosures will come and history books will change.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by skalla
reply to post by Harte

 

sometimes, Harte, i feel it would be easier just to post a reading list and then stay clear of some threads.

Could you post a reading list? I understand if you're being sarcastic, but if you could point me in the direction of some books/articles/whatever I would greatly appreciate it!

I realize that for a lot of you, my questions are rather.....juvenile. Hence why I want to further educate myself before I try making another thread on this topic.

'Morning of the Magicians' author Pauwel (sp?)
'Timeless Earth', Kolisomo (Kolosimo?)
Zechariah Sitchin's books have lots of good info, tho his interpretations are pretty far out.

reply to post by GargIndia

The current history text books are written under the British rule.

Textbooks? What on earth have textbooks to do with anything?

What matters is original, published, peer-reviewed scholarship. What historians do for a living, you know. Textbooks for schoolchildren are not relevant at all. Governments, not historians, decide what is in them. If, as you allege, Indian history textbooks haven't changed since 1950, it suggests a certain lethargy on the part of those responsible for public education in India (and perhaps accounts for your own troubles with understanding history) but it does not mean that Indian history was 'constructed' by the British.

The contribution of "independent" governments after the British is insignificant. If you have any doubts, you can compare 1950 history textbooks to modern ones.

Why is 'independent' in quotes? Do you think India is still under British rule? Or the rule of some other country? Bangladesh, perhaps?

The British Government is in possession of many ancient original manuscripts obtained from India. I cannot offer you any proof at this time.

How do you know this? Or are your sources of information so secret and dangerous you dare not reveal them?

reply to post by Astyanax


In many respect's the Indian Culture was altered to an unrecognisable degree by Our (The British presence) but to a much lesser degree than the previous and much more militant control by the Muslims, On many Indian temple's what was acceptable and seen as holy iconography such as the more erotic depictions of the god's was seen as disgraceful by the English whom built the modern infrastructure that they exported from Britain during the industrial revolution and upon which today's India still relies heavily, as the British had taken the place of the ruling Cast in Indian society there ways were seen as to be emulated so changing the face of the Indian culture making the prudish practices of the Victorian English the thing to be like (while at the same time the lower classes were rebelling against it back in England), Amongst the Hindu Casts but within there casts women could rise higher than there equivalent English counterparts and with greater equality (Within there cast) which was changed by there emulation of the British whom at the time were a very male dominated and controlled culture.

India is one of the greatest nation's of the world and has the future in it's hand only held back by the cast system that is a religious structure and mean's quite often the diamond in lost in the rough, By that I mean the Indian Einstein would never make it unless he was born on there elite cast and in the west we are no longer progressing culturally because the old upper class (our own cast system is called the class system and is purely based on wealth and society position), indeed we are going backward socially and regressing to the pre 20th century system which will mean Britain and any other western nation were this is also happening will become more and more backward with slowing progressiveness and failing economy's as the dynamism that drove our progress was the dream of escaping the class system and bettering thing's for our family's, when you take the wind from a the sails the sailing ship no longer has any motion.

In large ancient prehistoric civilisations we can only ponder if they ever equalled or came near to us (Despite the lack of definitive evidence) if they ever saw such age's of decline and shifting progression to other parts of there world's and if it was such time that may have triggered there eventual demise through war or catastrophe.

It is correct that the British library has a vast collection of Antique and often un-translated manuscripts from around the former British empire (remember it was built primarily on trade not war or conquest though there was a good bit of that as well) so Garghindia is most certainly correct there but as to what is in those manuscripts and text's is anyone's guess (Oh and I think India should have the Kohi Noor Diamond back is is cursed and has caused nothing but misery to every person whom has owned it since it was looted from the temple of Indra and may also - though I am being superstitious here have contributed to our slow demise), there are also in both the British Museum and the Paris Museum many cuneiform tablets that have also never been decoded from the ancient fertile crescent of Mesopotamia so don't think they don't exist because I assure you they most certainly do.

Originally posted by ABeing
reply to post by Harte

 

Allow me to rephrase my "nothing worth looking into at Puma Punku" according to your post to which I was replying:

Originally posted by Harte
...There's nothing at Puma Punku that can't be explained, just like Macchu Picchu. In fact, Macchu Piccu would have been more difficult, IMO.

As it is archeologically established that Puma Punku predates the Inca empire, which is said to have built Maccu Picchu; what needs to be explained is how Puma Punku then was constructed as it is a site in which symmetry, contrary to Maccu Picchu, and metall, in between the stone blocks, in the form of clamps, presumed to have been used as reinforcement of the foundation of the construction have been discovered.

Regarding how, several quarries around the area are sources for the red sandstone that most of the site consists of. The andesite blocks are quite a bit smaller, and much fewer, and came from a quarry across Titicaca (IIRC,) likely floated on reed rafts.
It is understandable in the modern age that people would be astounded by the effort required to build in stone at such scales.But Puma Punku is not without precedent. Other cultures duplicated or exceeded the scope of work found there. Macchu Picchu, in fact, is one that exceeded it, IMO.

Regarding the metal, the precursers of the Inca (the Wari) used the same metal the Incans used, an alloy of copper and other elements that occurs naturally in the area (they didn't have to actually make the alloy - the copper has the other ingredients as impurities.)

The andesite stones are well-crafted for sure. However, examination of them reveals they were shaped with pounding stones and smoothed (likely with rubbing stones, but such a process doesn't leave tell-tale signs like pounding does.)

Interior carvings (the shadowbox-looking insets, etc.) made on the stone show certain signs of having been chiseled. If you ask me, they were sawn then chiseled out, but I'm not an expert on the site.
It's good work, like I said, but the Egyptians did much finer and more detailed work on harder stone (diorite) two thousand years befrore Puma Punku.

Regarding the rest of your post, I appreciate that you don't believe it has been explained. I will say that it [has been explained, but it's not easy to find reports of findings there, especially online and in English.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Yes I agree people are astounded which makes it all the more wondrous that they did this but there remain many unanswered question's about the site and the state of technical skill it's builders possessed still the majority of the site remains still unexcavated as only the large or above and near surface remains were excavated still it remains a site for conjecture and will remain enigmatic, the presence of skull carving's suggests a human sacrifice cult but we will never know until more advanced archaeology has been performed on the unexcavated and relatively uninteresting parts of the site.

I accept your carbon dating evidence as posted elsewhere but to me there are still too many unexplained skills and architectural skill's that were not repeated at later contemporary site's and the metal bracing remains a very advanced achievement for a supposedly stone tool society, what was the argon krypton dating of the exposed stone surface as that is something I would like to see especially from the sheltered portions of the stones were the original surface has not been weather eroded (as the weather eroded surface would return an earlier date) as that would give a concise (More so than carbon dating anyway as it dates the stone not the possible water deposited or layered carbon) estimate of the age of the structure (If any was ever done) the relative lack of erosion may have also been due to the fact it is at very high altitude and was mainly buried in mud deposits until it was partially reconstructed (Bad but early archaeology I am sure you will agree), this will be a ruin of debate long after thee and me are gone.

Just to throw a spanner in the works the ICA stones of PERU that are accepted to be a fake, how did the illiterate farmer whom sold them to tourists fake the Argon Krypton dating,. The farmer was arrested and only allowed to go home when he admitted under duress to having FAKED something he could not possible do as the ARGON KRYPTON dating was far too precise in measuring them to be over 10000 years old and without a nuclear reactor and particle accelerator there is no way even the best forger can replicate this effect.

pseudoarchaeology.org...
www.xenophilia.com...
creationwiki.org...
www.violations.org.uk...
www.humanfossil.se...

On there own these would be anomalous but there are dinosaur models as well from mexico.

www.bible.ca...
www.paleo.cc...

Is it not possible that this was a result of remnant's of lost knowledge passed down the ages from a lost culture or does it mean all our dating techniques are bogus.

Look beside any highway, check out the gutters and alleyways of any town or city. Full of trash, foil wrappers and plastic bottles and containers, garbage of every sort, much of which will never break down or biodegrade in any way. If, in the distant past, there were a civilization of equal or greater advancement as ours, the evidence of it would be everywhere, not at all terribly hard to find.

The fact that it's not there, the fact that we instead find midden heaps full of animal bones and mollusk shells, and the discarded flakes of flint left from knapping tells me something.

reply to post by Monger


Assuming that they were a consumer society that followed our model, but what if they did not, this is not the only form that civilisation can take and not the only path to development.

reply to post by LABTECH767


Your views are very much appreciated.

Current civilization is NOT advanced. Earth has seen very advanced civilizations before that have disappeared.

How do I know this? I can only give you a hint that I possess some special gifts.

An advanced civilization will:

1. Get over war and hatred
2. No poor or hungry
3. No slavery
4. No prostitution
5. No injustice

What we have is a mercantile society without the moral values. People do not follow God's laws. How can such a society be an "advanced" society??

The current society cannot accept the "true" history of mankind - this I can assure you. As this will demolish the current religions (all of them) and the current power structures.

reply to post by Monger


This type of garbage will break down in 1000s of years if exposed to sunlight and air.

If buried - any organic molecules (plastics included) will break down either by bacterial action or heat and pressure.

Metals corrode and turn to dust.

You must also take into account plate tectonics - the earth's crust continuously forms and recycles. Earth is very hot inside. Volcanoes spit molten rock because there is molten rock deeper in the earth. Any objects embedded in the crust eventually get recycled with crust.

Earth is a dynamic planet. All things perish on this planet. All our wonderful cities and transportation systems will also perish.

reply to post by LABTECH767

In many respect's the Indian Culture was altered to an unrecognisable degree by Our (The British presence) but to a much lesser degree than the previous and much more militant control by the Muslims.

What do you mean by Indian culture? Did India stop being India when the first Muslims settled on the Malabar coast in the sixth or seventh centuries? Or when Mahmud bin Qasim captured Sind in the eighth century?

Islam is an integral part of the history of the Indian subcontinent. 160 million Indians are Muslims. Another 320 million Muslims live in Bangladesh, Maldives, Pakistan and Sri Lanka – they are an integral and vital part of the population and culture of the region.

By the way, in case that 'our' was intended to include me, I'm not British.

India is one of the greatest nation's of the world and has the future in it's hand only held back by the cast system

I suspect I know a little more about India than you do. I have lived and worked there, and have visited more times than I can remember. Moreover, as I said earlier, I'm South Asian, and India is the dominant political and cultural power in my region. I have literally dozens of Indian friends and colleagues.

Caste (please note the spelling) is still something of a problem in India, but it is far from the biggest. India's main problem is that, for all its advancement and its vast, teeming cities, it is still predominantly a peasant economy and culture, steeped in the patriarchy, misogyny, conservatism and resistance to novelty that is the mark of all such cultures.

Breaking the grip of tradition will take a revolution in India, similar to that which began in Russia in 1918 and was completed by Stalin in the nick of time to save the country from dismemberment in the Second World War. India's peasant culture is evident in mediaeval attitudes towards women, arranged marriage, ethnic and religious rivalries, political primitivism (for all its purported democracy, Indian politics is based on personal loyalty, favours and nepotism), pre-modern concepts of time and, yes, the occupational and social shackles of caste. All this will have to go, one way or the other, before India can really move forward. Those people who expect the country to rival China in a few decades have no idea what they are talking about.

More's the pity. I love India and I like Indians. I would like to see them do well. They won't, unfortunately, because women cannot contribute to India's economy in the way Chinese women can to China's, and because peasant revolts and outbreaks of ethnic and religious violence, fuelled by attitudes of the sort that have already been displayed on this thread, will always destroy progress and throw the country back into the flames. One thing our Muslim-bashing friend GargIndia got right: South Asians are their own worst enemies. Or rather, they are each other's worst enemies. Quite likely even Africa will reach modernity and prosperity before South Asia does.

The Indian Einstein would never make it unless he was born on there elite cast

There are 125 million English-speaking middle-class people in India. Quite a pool from which to draw potential Einsteins.

It is correct that the British library has a vast collection of Antique and often un-translated manuscripts from around the former British empire.

Yes, and the oldest of them dates from later than 2,000BC. So Garghindia is most certainly wrong.

There are also in both the British Museum and the Paris Museum many cuneiform tablets that have also never been decoded from the ancient fertile crescent of Mesopotamia so don't think they don't exist.

I am aware that such things exist. However, if something has 'never been decoded', it's rather hard to say what it's about, isn't it? So how the heck does GargIndia know what's in his '5,300-year-old manuscript'?

reply to post by Monger


Yea, I'm pretty sure the aztecs, mayans and egyptians had plastic bags an used foil to cook.
Seriously though, not withstanding the fact that earth is always constantly changing, I'm sure older advanced civilizations had different mediums to carry there items out an about. Probably saw the negative impact on the planet with plastics an other harmful materials. If they built there cities out of stone, interlocking an what not, thay should tell you somthing about their culture.

reply to post by Astyanax


You are definitely an intellectual and widely travelled person.
Your views are appreciated.

You have a point about the "peasant" culture. However it is unlikely that you actually lived in any village in India.

My experience is limited to India. I have not travelled to Bangladesh or Pakistan but I have not seen stubborn-ness or resistance to change that you describe. In fact I preach ideas that are very heavily against their present beliefs and I am still alive.

You are likely steeped in Muslim culture. Muslims can be very violent and stubborn about their beliefs.

Women work very hard in villages. The economic contribution of women is considerable in India - in both villages and cities. I wonder why you could not see that.

South Asian society is patriarchal - but so is Chinese and middle eastern societies.

You seem to have more knowledge than me about what is there in British records - to the point of ascertaining exact dates. You have such insider information. I bow to you.