Protestant disinfo debunked-Catholics are also Christians

And if anybody wants to know.......I do not believe that confessing sins to a man in a fancy gown is going to justify myself in any way.

Hope y'all have a good day.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by charles1952

 

"There can be only one."

That would be Highlander... Good movie!

You jus have a man-crush on Mario Van Peeples.

Freak.

Who the hell is Mario Van Peeples??!?

Christopher Lambert and Sean Connery are in Highlander... Silly

OIC... so apparently you're just a poser fan.

Geeesh, Highlander 3. *shakes head*

Heh... I suppose...

The rest of the movies sucked... Just like the quote says...

There should be only one...

reply to post by Akragon


Maybe so.

Mario played a BA highlander tho, watch the trailer on YouTube.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by adjensen

 

I've had personal experiences that have told me that she's in heaven . . .

I'm not trying to make light of your wife dying.
It seems like maybe excommunication is not the same as it was in Medieval times.

No, it is not.

For someone who is super into the Catholic faith it's probably a very effective tool for correcting an egregious error, because they are likely to do pretty much anything to receive the Eucharist, but in the case of my wife, it was something that she was willing to sacrifice for the sake of our daughter (long story,) though if she knew she'd die suddenly at age 46, maybe not.

And technically, I suppose that she excommunicated herself -- her local priest never brought it up, and she still went to communion in the Methodist church, just not Catholic.

reply to post by adjensen

Dear adjensen,

This may be of no comfort, or only cold comfort which is worse. Please know my good intentions in going back to the Catechism.

Toward Christians who live in this situation (divorced and remarried), and who often keep the faith and desire to bring up their children in a Christian manner, priests and the whole community must manifest an attentive solicitude, so that they do not consider themselves separated from the Church, in whose life they can and must participate as baptized persons:

They should be encouraged to listen to the Word of God, to attend the Sacrifice of the Mass, to persevere in prayer, to contribute to works of charity and to community efforts for justice, to bring up their children in the Christian faith, to cultivate the spirit and practice of penance and thus implore, day by day, God's grace. (Parenthetical mterial added.)

I identify, and sympathize, with you more than you know.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Thank you, my friend.

As I said earlier, I take the events that I have seen since her death as a sign that she is in heaven. It helped when I understood why people need miracles associated with them to be considered saints, that only those in heaven can perform miracles. While the signs that I have seen are minor, they are still signs, and as I am the only person that is concerned with her state (in that I caused it,) the fact that they are real, and personal to me, are signs that they are real.

Logically, the alternatives are coincidence (almost infinitely unlikely,) Satan giving me false signs (but which bring me comfort, which Satan cannot,) or God "tricking" me into thinking she's in heaven (which makes zero sense.) Either being in a state of mortal sin doesn't matter, or her reasons for being in that state (sacrificing herself for our daughter) were sufficient to negate it.

When I talked to my priest about it, he wrote it off to God's Infinite Mercy, which I am good with.

God is good.

reply to post by charles1952

It's possible for one group of people to say about another- "They are wrong on that point, but not so badly wrong that we can't recognise them as Christians".
Without remembering the exact words, I know of some slogan about agreeing on essentials and accepting differences on inessentials.

(Using an analogy from the game of darts- when the darts are thrown at the board, most of them will fail to hit the bullseye, but that doesn't mean they miss the dartboard altogether. I may think I'm a treble twenty, but we can hold our private opinions about each other's scores while agreeing that we are both on the board somewhere)

As a practical example, Noturtypical and I think each other wrong about the Rapture, but accept each other as Christians.
I think the modern Catholic Church is grossly wrong in many areas of theology, but the community still confesses Jesus Christ and salvation through Christ.
If the Roman Church accepts that I too believe in the salvation through Christ, and that I am thus a member of the body of Christ and therefore a member of what God regards as the Church, then that will be fine.

P.S Even the OP of this thread does not push the Catholic claim further than "we are Christians too". I am simply responding to this request for acceptance by asking the Catholic church to make sure it works in both directions.

reply to post by DISRAELI

If the Roman Church accepts that I too believe in the salvation through Christ, and that I am thus a member of the body of Christ and therefore a member of what God regards as the Church, then that will be fine.

They don't.
Do you realise that?
When they say "catholic", it means in their eyes, they are the only church.
Anyone outside of the "catholic" are not the church.
Everyone needs to get a grip on this concept.
The Catholic Church does not recognize any denomination other than itself as the church.
They will not even refer to another denomination as a church but will only call it a "faith community", so in their mind, you are equal to hinduism or Islam or Buddhism.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I'm getting mixed responses.
The likes of Colbe do not, I agree, and the more formal internal documentation may be still with Colbe.
But other Catholic posters are differing from him, which makes the prospect more hopeful.

Hence, when I said "If the Roman church accepts...", there was a slight element of "future conditional" in there, which Greek or Latin would probably have expressed more accurately.

reply to post by DISRAELI

. . . when I said "If the Roman church accepts...", there was a slight element of "future conditional" in there . . .

Don't hold your breath.
They seem to only become more deeply entrenched.
They have a one way negotiating policy, and they feel like they are making progress, so why change their tactics now?

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by charles1952

 

Thank you, my friend.

As I said earlier, I take the events that I have seen since her death as a sign that she is in heaven. It helped when I understood why people need miracles associated with them to be considered saints, that only those in heaven can perform miracles. While the signs that I have seen are minor, they are still signs, and as I am the only person that is concerned with her state (in that I caused it,) the fact that they are real, and personal to me, are signs that they are real.

Logically, the alternatives are coincidence (almost infinitely unlikely,) Satan giving me false signs (but which bring me comfort, which Satan cannot,) or God "tricking" me into thinking she's in heaven (which makes zero sense.) Either being in a state of mortal sin doesn't matter, or her reasons for being in that state (sacrificing herself for our daughter) were sufficient to negate it.

When I talked to my priest about it, he wrote it off to God's Infinite Mercy, which I am good with.

God is good.

Sorry for your loss, but I will say be carefull about accepting signs as proof that your religion is correct. The Bible says the following...

2 Thessalonians 2:9 KJV
[9] Even him , whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


Scripture also says that signs follow God's true people too, but with them there is also the fruit of the Spirit. Looking at the Catholic Church throughout its history, do you really see the fruit of the Spirit in their many, many murders and persecutions of those who disagree with them?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
When they say "catholic", it means in their eyes, they are the only church.

No.

There is the "catholic church", which you attest to when you say the Nicene creed, and which is the universal church ("catholic" means "universal",) and there is the "Roman Catholic Church", which is not the same thing.

As an extremely obvious example, consider the Eastern Orthodox Church -- the Roman Catholic Church recognizes it as a separate entity -- it is not a part of the RCC -- but still holds it in communion, meaning that I can go to Mass at an Eastern Orthodox church and receive sacraments, and their members can do the same at a Roman Catholic Church.

Please do not distort the church's teaching -- you do not need to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church to be saved by Christ.

Originally posted by truejew
Even him , whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

What does that have to do with anything?

My wife died, she's condemned to hell, and you think that Satan gives me pretend signs that she's in heaven, which both brings me comfort and strengthens my faith in God? How does that make any sense?

If these signs are through the Holy Spirit, you are treading on the ground of Mark 3:29.

reply to post by adjensen

. . . and there is the "Roman Catholic Church", which is not the same thing.

One is hypothetical in a way but it is still represented by the brick and mortar church, so don't kid yourself into thinking they are two different things.

Please do not distort the church's teaching -- you do not need to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church to be saved by Christ.

That is your personal opinion.
What I was trying to make a point of earlier is that the Catholic Church does not recognize the Protestant denominations as churches because they see themselves as the only church, which is what "catholic" means. The Catholic Church sees itself as the catholic church.
As for the Eastern Orthodox, the Catholic Church has been working on them for a long time to make concessions to where they are a virtual Catholic subdivision.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by adjensen

 

Please do not distort the church's teaching -- you do not need to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church to be saved by Christ.

That is your personal opinion.

No, that is what the church teaches. You seem to be mired in anti-Catholicism from the 1800s, I would suggest cracking a Catechism from this century.

reply to post by adjensen

No, that is what the church teaches. You seem to be mired in anti-Catholicism from the 1800s, I would suggest cracking a Catechism from this century.

OK, I did a Google search and got a hit for "Catholic Answers" and it says that the catechism supports the same view as the Church fathers.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, following historic Christian theology since the time of the early Church Fathers, refers to the Catholic Church as "the universal sacrament of salvation" (CCC 774–776), and states: "The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men" (CCC 780)
www.catholic.com...

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
Even him , whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

What does that have to do with anything?

My wife died, she's condemned to hell, and you think that Satan gives me pretend signs that she's in heaven, which both brings me comfort and strengthens my faith in God? How does that make any sense?

If these signs are through the Holy Spirit, you are treading on the ground of Mark 3:29.

The signs would be strengthening you into a false religion.

I don't think the Holy Spirit supports religions that are guilty of so much blood shed.

Originally posted by truejew
I don't think the Holy Spirit supports religions that are guilty of so much blood shed.

So now you're speaking for God, as well?

Your actions are pretty much exactly those that are discussed in Mark 3:29, good luck with that.

reply to post by truejew

The signs would be strengthening you into a false religion.

Right, and I solved the problem of the Eucharist last night on this thread, where I determined that it was meant to protect the Christians from the visitation of judgment on Jerusalem with the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.
They were making a pledge at the Last Supper to remember Jesus as their Passover.
So that kind of ruins it for the Catholic Church if my theory is correct.
It would make their claim more like a hoax to keep people coming through the doors every week.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
I don't think the Holy Spirit supports religions that are guilty of so much blood shed.

So now you're speaking for God, as well?

Your actions are pretty much exactly those that are discussed in Mark 3:29, good luck with that.

I think it is well known that God does not support a church who murders.


Revelation 21:8 KJV
[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.